cielaq Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 So they do not stack - if you hit one, two or three ("one or more") times, the unit suffers -1T. No stacking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 can you post a quote for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cielaq Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 "Every model in a unit hit by one or more rad shells suffers a -1 penalty(...)" If it would stack, the rule would be something like "For each rad shell that hits, every model in a unit suffers a -1 penalty...". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 oh, your right. Huh. well, that makes sense then. so one rad and one stasis would be good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cielaq Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Should be. :) But that's the reason I like to take 3 grenade launchers - you have 1/3 chance that you miss, so if you want to use both shells, it's good to have that extra shot (as one of the three will, statistically, miss - hopefully the one I've launched two of ;) ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 true! I'm debating on weather to keep one or not... or to go with a command squad with the banner of fortitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Stacius Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I have run both and for sheer ability to take an army's firepower for at least a turn, 5 deathwing knights are better than six black knights. However, the black knights excell at rapidly closing and gunning squads. I normally run a Libby on bike with black knights and hope for ignores cover as one of his powers. The biggest issue I find with black knights are templates of any stripe. Some of my opponents run blood angels fragioso dreads which ruin there day, and helldrakes galore. The deathwing knights can take all of that but black knights can drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 that is a valid concern I have heard laments about the heldrake on this forum so far. if I was to do a black knight focused army, I would at least have a FNP command squad in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 oh, your right. Huh. well, that makes sense then. so one rad and one stasis would be good? Take 3. It gives you a re-do if one of the grenades miss. Otherwise, you get 1 or 2 str6 ap4 shots. If you just dropped the target to t3, that means they cause instant death. If you dropped them to t2, you can fire frag rounds and wound on 3's with a blast weapon. that is a valid concern I have heard laments about the heldrake on this forum so far. if I was to do a black knight focused army, I would at least have a FNP command squad in there. A single heldrake can table a ravenwing army pretty quickly. If your opponent is really full of themselves, they can drop 3 and just ignore the rest of their army. Our famous "Air Superiority Fighter" is pretty useless against them, and will most likely get vector striked to death. The only real answer is to take an aegis defense line, fortress of redemption, or devastator squads with flakk missiles. But that adds up to a lot of very slow (or immobile) points, which is the anti-thesis of the Ravenwing. Also, devastators can get 1 shot by a heldrake as well, so they're more of a distraction than an answer. So, yeah, for the moment the heldrake is an overpowered, rediculous space gundam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 hmmm.... okay, points well taken. I ran around with a big black knight focused army, so you might want to take a look at it http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273899-1850pts-black-knight-focus/ Which is better, list 1, or list 2? (P.S. Probably wargear errors and things, also not giving up interrogator chaplain) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 hmmm.... okay, points well taken. I ran around with a big black knight focused army, so you might want to take a look at it http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273899-1850pts-black-knight-focus/ Which is better, list 1, or list 2? (P.S. Probably wargear errors and things, also not giving up interrogator chaplain) I'd prefer the first list, but some things to note: Dreadnoughts aren't really worth their points in larger games anymore. In small games, they are good because you have more slots than points. In large games, you have more points than slots, and terminators have more firepower and survivability. Unless a dreadnought is somehow part of your strategy (like the drop pod, in your face maneuver that vanilla marines do with ironclads), I'd avoid taking one above 1000 points. Also, you only get 3 bikes in a RW command squad. If you're using it for a banner, this makes the banner pretty easy to get rid of. Since a lot of your army is already in transports, I'd stick a power armor command squad in a rhino/razorback for the extra range and protection. If you put a banner on bikes and then take a bunch of non-bike units, then you're wasting the speed advantage those bikes have. Even if your marines are in transports, they have to get out eventually, and that means they're back to normal movement and the bikes have to slow down for the banner to be useful. Also, it's unlikely that the banner will be used at all until the transports start blowing up, and when the first vehicle goes, your bikes have to either keep up with the others, or stay behind to help the exposed squad. Keep in mind that you're also taking the most expensive banner, so you have to pass a lot of rolls to make back its points. In an army with a lot of bolters, a standard of devastation can make up its points much faster (40 shots from each tactical squad can kill A LOT). Just a few things to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 the command bikes will be going with the front loaded black knight squads to give more saves to them. also, i need a biker command squad because my chappy, the only guy, is on a bike. so kinda forced if i want the command bike. also, the mortis is amazing. it "makes it's points back" in most games. a cheap dude that puts out a lot of shots, and he has skyfire (FW is okay where i am) if he stands still. this is more on the Knights and command squad atm. I'm still thinking about the second list. it looks like a lot to keep two black knight squads alive, but It is good for keeping guys around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 Any more comments should probably go into the actual thread. I still need some critique on things, and the thread is the best place do doit. now. how about some pros/cons on both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The only real answer is to take an aegis defense line, fortress of redemption, or devastator squads with flakk missiles. But that adds up to a lot of very slow (or immobile) points, which is the anti-thesis of the Ravenwing. Also, devastators can get 1 shot by a heldrake as well, so they're more of a distraction than an answer. So, yeah, for the moment the heldrake is an overpowered, rediculous space gundam. Or a Mortis. Really, someone should make an artwork depicting a Mortis blasting a Heldrake out of the sky. Remember, a TLLC Mortis is cheaper than a Heldrake. The only downside to the Mortis is that it can't be a DW vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upstartes Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The other drawback of a Mortis is not all opponents and events will allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Big "Approved for 40k" stamp on it mean anything to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 Oh dear.... a FW versus regulation argument in this thread.... Daniel bryan, what do you say? listen to Daniel. please put it in another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Oh dear.... a FW versus regulation argument in this thread.... Daniel bryan, what do you say? listen to Daniel. please put it in another thread. It's not an argument. Currently you need opponent permission to run FW models. Almost all tourney's don't allow them. It's not really an argument when it's well known and documented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 I know, but these discussions become heated at times. I suggest making a new thread. anyways, back on topic. How do you guys use deathwing knights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.