My Little Thread of Noob Questions

[Brother dean]

Also, if you survive you can take your next turn and fly off the table into Ongoing Reserves and just spend your turn not shooting off table for a return next turn in a more advantageous position.

[BigGumbo]

Also, as a Flyer, the NJ can Evade to get the Jink special rule. But the BGB states that this would then cause the Flyer to fire only Snap Shots. But since the Jink special rule is only applicable to a model that has moved "in its movement phase," I'm not sure I understand the significance of only being able to fire Snap Shots unless that rule (about only shooting Snap Shots) would apply to my following turn and not just my present turn. Is there a situation in which I could come under fire during my own turn that would cause me to want to Evade and therefor be reduced to Snap Shots during my Shooting Phase?

Bleh, I hope all that made sense

I'm pretty sure that the section on Flyers covers this explicitly - i.e. that you can choose to evade in the enemy's shooting phase which grants you a Jink save against their shooting but at the cost of only being able to fire snap shots in your following shooting phase (nothing comes for free).

The problem is that the BGB is anything but explicit. It specifies that the Flyer can choose to Evade and gain the Jink special rule after the opponent has rolled to hit but before rolling for armor penetration. The only thing it says after that is "An evading Flyer has the Jink special rule, but only fires Snap Shots." So since you wouldn't be firing shots on your opponent's turn while you are evading, it didn't make much sense. It doesn't specifically state that the Snap Shots limitation is applied to the following shooting phase. It also doesn't state the it applies to only the following shooting phase and not multiple future shooting phases. It gives no indication whatsoever of how to apply that rule (that I'm aware of). From the way it is stated, it could be argued that once a Flyer has chosen to evade, it can only fire Snap Shots for the remainder of the game.

Now of course that seems ridiculous to me. BUT, it also seems equally ridiculous that an aircraft should be restricted to Snap Shots if gets shot at, chooses to use evasive maneuvers (limiting it's ability to fire), but then before it actually attempts to fire, it comes out of evasive maneuvers and is able to move normally and take proper aim before shooting. That is essentially what is happening, right? You shoot at me, then I evade and use Jink to get a cover save, then when my turn starts I make a regular move at Combat or Cruising Speed, then I shoot. If I just made a regular move at Combat or Cruising Speed, why am I suffering a penalty to my ability to shoot accurately at you? The evading and jinking is ancient history by then. It would be like saying if ground troops moved in the previous movement phase they could only fire snap shots on the following turn, even if the didn't move during the present turn. That would be absurd.

Now, I recognize that I'm a noob, and that not everything in this game is realistic. However, without the BGB specifically stating how to apply the "only fires Snap Shots" restriction, I don't see how anyone can just assume it means that it applies for the successive turn and only the successive turn....unless there is something I am missing here

Is there ever a scenario in which my Nephilim Jetfighter would evade/jink and then, during my opponent's turn, I would have an opportunity to shoot at him? Because if that were ever possible, I can see how I should suffer a penalty to my ballistic skill.

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the rules in a logical way. Makes it easier to remember them.

The relevant sentence is the penultimate one (BGB, P81): After the enemy has rolled to hit against one of your flyers, but before armour penetration rolls are made, you can choose to Evade until the end of your next turn. You actually quoted from that sentence in your response to me, but omitted the key phrase that I've bolded.

The scenario is thus: you shoot at my Nephilim; I Evade; Evasion lasts for your shooting phase, granting me Jink saves, and the whole of my next turn, limiting me to snap shots. I am then no longer Evading when you come to shoot at me again in your next turn, when I would then have to make the same decision.

In the Interceptor example I gave, I would actually be evading for three player turns, being my turn when you shoot your Interceptor weapon at me; your turn; and the whole of my next turn. Although in that case, I'd definitely be leaving combat airspace...

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

 

The relevant sentence is the penultimate one (BGB, P81): After the enemy has rolled to hit against one of your flyers, but before armour penetration rolls are made, you can choose to Evade until the end of your next turn. 

 

 

 

 

Hey BG, thanks for this comment.  You're absolutely right.  Perhaps I needed all of this discussion before my brain was able to read that phrase and interpret it's meaning.  Anyways, I don't think I'll ever forget the rule now ;)

[elphilo]

The relevant sentence is the penultimate one (BGB, P81): After the enemy has rolled to hit against one of your flyers, but before armour penetration rolls are made, you can choose to Evade until the end of your next turn.

Hey BG, thanks for this comment. You're absolutely right. Perhaps I needed all of this discussion before my brain was able to read that phrase and interpret it's meaning. Anyways, I don't think I'll ever forget the rule now

Ugh, ditto

[Brother dean]

Sometimes the wall is justified....   I myself am having trouble with moving and shooting rapid fire....  Not quite sure if I am stuck on 5th ed or 4th....

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Okay, another noob question:

 

Am I right in thinking that if I include Belial as an HQ choice on my army list, and thus my Terminator Squads become "Troops choices," that my Terminators count as scoring units?

[MadDoc]

Okay, another noob question:

 

Am I right in thinking that if I include Belial as an HQ choice on my army list, and thus my Terminator Squads become "Troops choices," that my Terminators count as scoring units?

Correct.

[twopounder]

Okay, another noob question:

 

Am I right in thinking that if I include Belial as an HQ choice on my army list, and thus my Terminator Squads become "Troops choices," that my Terminators count as scoring units?

 

Partially correct. The terminators you purchase as troops count as scoring. If you take 7 squads, then 1 squad will not be scoring. Also, knights are never scoring, neither are command squads.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

[BigGumbo]

 

 

 

Okay, another noob question:

 

Am I right in thinking that if I include Belial as an HQ choice on my army list, and thus my Terminator Squads become "Troops choices," that my Terminators count as scoring units?

Partially correct. The terminators you purchase as troops count as scoring. If you take 7 squads, then 1 squad will not be scoring. Also, knights are never scoring, neither are command squads.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

Actually it was entirely correct. Belial's unlocking is no longer optional: Deathwing Terminator Squads are Troops choices in a primary detachment that contains Belial, not Troops or Elites like in the previous codex. Assuming a single FOC, you can take a maximum of 6 DWT squads.

[Brother dean]

Yes. 6 DWT squads only. They brought us in line with Loganwing. \Be sure to buy the new DWKnights squad for Elites....

[BigGumbo]

Of course, we can still take more DWTs than in the previous 'Dex even though it's fewer units...

[IndigoJack]

Of course, we can still take more DWTs than in the previous 'Dex even though it's fewer units...

 

I'm not sure about that. There was a 42 terminator list from the last codex, and the most I've been able to hit in this codex is 41. Now to be fair, neither of these lists are very good, but I still think the last codex (barely) had the new one beat in number of terminators.

[Brother dean]

I think he meant that you could in theory take 102 termies in one force org chart... not that you could take more for your points.

 

6xtroops = 60

3xKnights = 30

2xDWCommand = 10

Belial

Libby/Chappy

 

102 termies..

[BigGumbo]

@Brother Dean

That was indeed what I meant: specifically that your 6 DWT squads now represent 60 guys, vs the 45 you could've taken in the old Dex with 9 DWT squads.

 

@IndigoJack

 

Sounds like you're talking about the practicalities of a specific points level, not a general aspect of the DA army list. Unless you, or the OP, says what points level you're playing at, then responders will pretty much have to assume that the points level is not a relevant consideration to the particular question.

[twopounder]

 

 

 

 

Okay, another noob question:

 

Am I right in thinking that if I include Belial as an HQ choice on my army list, and thus my Terminator Squads become "Troops choices," that my Terminators count as scoring units?

Partially correct. The terminators you purchase as troops count as scoring. If you take 7 squads, then 1 squad will not be scoring. Also, knights are never scoring, neither are command squads.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

Actually it was entirely correct. Belial's unlocking is no longer optional: Deathwing Terminator Squads are Troops choices in a primary detachment that contains Belial, not Troops or Elites like in the previous codex. Assuming a single FOC, you can take a maximum of 6 DWT squads.

 

Except the kind of games you'll likely run DW in will mean additional FOC slots ;). But yes, you're right, I was mixing 4th and 6th books together. Still, it's worth noting that only deathwing terminator squads count towards this, not all deathwing units.

[IndigoJack]

@Brother Dean

 

That was indeed what I meant: specifically that your 6 DWT squads now represent 60 guys, vs the 45 you could've taken in the old Dex with 9 DWT squads.

 

@IndigoJack

 

Sounds like you're talking about the practicalities of a specific points level, not a general aspect of the DA army list. Unless you, or the OP, says what points level you're playing at, then responders will pretty much have to assume that the points level is not a relevant consideration to the particular question.

I was specifically talking about 2000 pt level, but I'm fairly certain at any point level the last codex let you take more terminators point for point. Saying that the new codex lets you take more termies in a FOC is a pointless argument anyways. I never had FOC issues with DW in the last codex. With dual FOC, the last codex didn't even hit it's limit until well over 4000 pts and at that point you're playing apoc and there is no FOC limiting you.

 

All that said, I think it's great that DW squads are no longer limited to 5 man squads as I can finally run the 7 man squads that I've wanted for years.

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Noob question and update:

 

So to begin my foray into 40k and start my Dark Angels collection, I followed the suggestion of many fellow b&c users and bought the DA portion of the DV kit on ebay.  After receiving the models, I promptly got them to a friend, an expert painter, whom I paid to paint them for me.  I just got them on Tuesday and they are unbelievably awesome.  I'd post some pics here so you could all be jealous, but I recently relocated and my camera is in storage.  Anyway, I played a 1K game with them on Wednesday and my marines fought gloriously to secure an unlikely come-from-behind victory.  Completely EPIC!  :)

 

So there's my update.

 

Here's my latest noob question: since I got my figs on ebay, I don't know what info they came with in the box.  Does anyone know if there was a special set of rules in the DV kit or an army roster with an equipment list?  Because I'd like to play WYSIWYG, but a Company Master is not allowed to take a power sword or a combi if he keeps his power armor.  Also, a Librarian comes equipped with a bolt pistol, but the Librarian fig in the DV kit doesn't have a pistol. 

 

One other questions: any suggestions on what to get to expand to 1,000 points?  In the game I played Wednesday I borrowed another tac squad and a Drop Pod.  Man the Drop Pod was so awesome...

[MadDoc]

Because I'd like to play WYSIWYG, but a Company Master is not allowed to take a power sword or a combi if he keeps his power armor.  Also, a Librarian comes equipped with a bolt pistol, but the Librarian fig in the DV kit doesn't have a pistol. 

You can equip a Company Master in power armour with a power sword and combi-weapon - he has access to the Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons, Special Issue Wargear and Chapter Relics sections of the wargear list and power swords (as power weapons) are in the Melee Weapons section and combi-weapons are in the Ranged Weapons section.

 

As for the Librarian, I think thats something most people won't have a problem with.

[Brother dean]

Noob question and update:

 

 

Here's my latest noob question: since I got my figs on ebay, I don't know what info they came with in the box. Does anyone know if there was a special set of rules in the DV kit or an army roster with an equipment list? Because I'd like to play WYSIWYG, but a Company Master is not allowed to take a power sword or a combi if he keeps his power armor. Also, a Librarian comes equipped with a bolt pistol, but the Librarian fig in the DV kit doesn't have a pistol.

 

One other questions: any suggestions on what to get to expand to 1,000 points? In the game I played Wednesday I borrowed another tac squad and a Drop Pod. Man the Drop Pod was so awesome...

No special equipment list in the DV set.

Yes the Master can equip the Power Sword and Combi weapon because he can use items from the melee and ranged portions of the Wargear list.

Yes the Librarian is equipped with a bolt pistol because the rules say so, not because it is on the model... he may have it hid in a fold of his robes... Tac marines are all equipped with a pistol but there is only one or two spares in the tactical squad box and none on the DV Tacs. Pistols have kinda been grandfathered into the rules for grenades. (Grenades do not have to be shown on the mini and any grenades that are on the mini do not have to be paid for, but cannot be used if not paid for)

 

I would go with the second tactical squad and the pod or a rhino UNLESS you are going to use the master as Azrael which makes termis and bikes troops, if you are using Azzy then I would get either termies or bikes because you must have more troops.

[elphilo]

Grenades do not have to be shown on the mini and any grenades that are on the mini do not have to be paid for, but cannot be used if not paid for

To add to this, unless its a paid upgrade it doesn't needed to be modeled on the mini as it is base equipment.

[Brother dean]

Yeah, I maybe shouldnt have brought that up because it got complicated real quick...

[elphilo]

Yeah, I maybe shouldnt have brought that up because it got complicated real quick...

Eh, he's got to learn it sometime. Trial by fire is okay

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Hey guys, thanks as always for the quick help.

 

Here's another easy noob question.  I just want to make sure I'm thinking of this right:

 

If I have a squad of Black Knights, and they turbo boost up the table out in the open, they get a 4+ cover save for Jink, right?  Then, since they are Skilled Riders, they get +1 to Jink, so it becomes a 3+, right?  Now, if they are accompanied by a Darkshroud Landspeeder, they get Stealth which is an additional +1 to cover save.  So would they then get a 2+ cover save while zooming up the table out in the open?

 

Thanks :)

[MadDoc]

Correct/Yes on all counts.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Which is one more reason why Black Knights are awesome!