Word Bearers: cowards, dupes or something else?

[Polaria]

Emperor turned on Lorgar, rejecting him in very terrible fashion. Emperor did not want his worship and would not accept Lorgar as the religious priest he was. Desperate to be accepted as himself, Lorgar turned to Chaos Gods who would accept anyone. Of course you can endlessly argue that chaos is "evil" and Emperor is "good" (or at least "not-as-evil") but the subtle differences between "evil" and "less evil" might lose meaning when the "less evil" has already told you to go screw yourself and then proceeded to nuke your favorite planet into stone age.

[blackoption]

The Emperor never raised his hand in anger to strike or betray Lorgar.  It was Lorgar who sank that low.

 

Lorgar knew his father could be rather unforgiving before Monarchia...  Just look to the II and XI legions.  If the Emperor chastises you by merely destroying a city (after it had been mostly evacuated, mind you by the Ultramarines) when he has shown himself to be more then capable of "terminating" the existence of two of your brothers (and their respective legions), you take that minor wrap on the knuckles for what it is and correct your behavior.  Had the Emperor "turned" on Lorgar then, Lorgar and the Word Bearers would just be another empty legion number with no history to account for.

 

I'm sorry, but it was Lorgar who initiated this blood feud, and in my opinion he did so over his wounded pride. After that, the man's attempt to cloak himself in noble virtues falls so shallow that even Angron calls him out on how hollow it sounds. Lorgar acknowledges he had delusions (such as always having to be the victim) when he finally sees actual hatred in Guilliman's eyes for the first time.  Even the leader of the so called "Blessed Sons" knew that what they were doing was wrong and confided it to Khârn of the World Eaters. 

 

The Emperor and the Imperium have always had a simple mandate. Adapt to be part of the order or be crushed under foot.  Rather than adapting, the spoiled child got angry and decided he was going to burn daddy's house down in revenge. (well, maybe that is a bit of an oversimplification....)  But to claim it is "for the good of humanity...."  is at most a cosmic chaotic joke and at least Lorgar deluding himself in order to look himself in the mirror.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

Well, I can't force you around to my way of thinking, of course (not yet...) but think of it like this: the WB believe what they are doing is morally right, so they can't be cowards. Any way you slice it, it takes some big ones to rebel against everything you've fought for so far and thrust the entire galaxy into civil war.

 

They may well be deluded though (although again, that's a matter of perspective and the answer is hardly set in stone).

 

cowardice has nothing to do with whether that person thinks they are doing what is right or wrong.  it has to do with whether they were motivated by fear and how they carried out their actions.

 

The Emperor never raised his hand in anger to strike or betray Lorgar.  It was Lorgar who sank that low.

 

Lorgar knew his father could be rather unforgiving before Monarchia...  Just look to the II and XI legions.  If the Emperor chastises you by merely destroying a city (after it had been mostly evacuated, mind you by the Ultramarines) when he has shown himself to be more then capable of "terminating" the existence of two of your brothers (and their respective legions), you take that minor wrap on the knuckles for what it is and correct your behavior.  Had the Emperor "turned" on Lorgar then, Lorgar and the Word Bearers would just be another empty legion number with no history to account for.

 

I'm sorry, but it was Lorgar who initiated this blood feud, and in my opinion he did so over his wounded pride. After that, the man's attempt to cloak himself in noble virtues falls so shallow that even Angron calls him out on how hollow it sounds. Lorgar acknowledges he had delusions (such as always having to be the victim) when he finally sees actual hatred in Guilliman's eyes for the first time.  Even the leader of the so called "Blessed Sons" knew that what they were doing was wrong and confided it to Khârn of the World Eaters. 

 

The Emperor and the Imperium have always had a simple mandate. Adapt to be part of the order or be crushed under foot.  Rather than adapting, the spoiled child got angry and decided he was going to burn daddy's house down in revenge. (well, maybe that is a bit of an oversimplification....)  But to claim it is "for the good of humanity...."  is at most a cosmic chaotic joke and at least Lorgar deluding himself in order to look himself in the mirror.

 

While what you said is all true, the emp still failed.  he was as much responsible for his sons' division and falls as they were.  lastly, lorgar did in a twisted way believe that he was enlightening humanity to "the truth of Chaos" although for the wrong reasons perhaps.  his book is the best support for this.

[Antarius]

I would argue that yes, moral convictions have a lot to do with whether you're a coward or not. But let's refrain from the wider discussion and keep it in the context of the WB.

Their convictions absolutely matter as to whether they're being cowardly in serving Chaos. Let's assume they've discovered that the imperial truth is wrong and that Chaos exists. Their options are either:

-Embrace Chaos, with all that that entails

-Oppose Chaos with all that that entails

 

Now, choosing the first option because resistance is futile might well be construed as cowardly, but it DOES depend a whole lot on your moral perspective. Opposing Chaos out of fear and propping up the imperial "truth" even though it's really a lie might equally well be seen as cowardly.

I'd say courage has a lot to do with doing what's right, even if everybody else is against you.

 

So, at the end of the day, it comes down to whether the WB see worshipping Chaos as the "path of least resistance" and choose it because it's less daunting than the alternative. I'd argue that theirk choice is absolutely one of courage and conviction: they choose to fight "the good fight" rather than stay in their rut and support the Emperor's reign of lies, like they're expected to. They stand against their brothers and everything they've known and loved because (they think) it's the right thing to do.

 

They might be wrong, of course. They might even be crazy and evil (and there's certainly a dark side to the whole deal; Argel Tal's story is a prime example). But they're not cowards.