Febelcrofas Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I was wondering what people thought about the practicalities or impracticalities of running two plasma command squads. Basically I run one in my ultramarine list unlocked with my captain. Now I love to take a bare bones libby too to get some null-zone going on. Recently however I used some space wolf allies for that lovely divination and the damage output as well as survivability of the unit literally went throught he roof. Which got me to thinking about blood angels. If I took say a small assault squad with say five men and a libby I can unlock an honour guard which I'm sure you all know is the blood angels eq. This would give me not only two plasma command squads but a libby with divination opening up all sorts of tactical flexibilty, for example having one aggresive squad that can really dominate the mid-field whilst still having a defensive one to really put off teleporting termies etc! Throw in the re-rolls provided by the blood angels libby and it is a very tempting prospect. So what do people think? Is it a bit too "eggs in one basket", or could it hold it's own in an otherwise ballanced list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 It's a frightening amount of firepower, that's for damn sure. The squad is small enough that I don't think you'll have to worry about "one basket" syndrome. The beautiful thing about massed plasma is that it's effective against medium infantry, heavy infantry, light vehicles, medium vehicles, and monstrous creatures; basically, it's one of the most versatile weapons in the entire game. Personally, I'm ok with this plan. It'll chew up points, sure, but it's a lot of very effective points. Between Prescience rerolls and FNP from the Apothecaries, you should be ok in the Gets Hot! realm as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muctar Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 You could do almost the same thing with Dark Angels allies, as their libby's unlock command squads and have Divination. I mention this because it has crossed my mind to get the re-rolls for my quad plasma command squad as well. Two such squads would be very effective I think, either BA or DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Alright, so captain + plasma command squad is easily around 350-400 points depending on how you kit the captain out, and the libby + BA honor guard come out at like 300 pts, right? So that's ~700 pts in two 5 men squads and 2 HQs, and that's if they're riding around in a rhino? I dunno, seems like an awful lot of points for 12 marines and 2 flimsy vehicles. :/ If your meta has a lot of footslogging MEQ it might be worth it, tho. I just wouldn't run it. I feel a prescience libby is better used with a close combat squad or buffing a devastator squad or some such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febelcrofas Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 Well the beauty of the Libby is he can sit back field with the command squad but in range of the devs to buff them when needed. Run like this it makes both the standard vanilla devs and the command squad pretty effective aa as well! It is a lot of points granted but I think the fnp kind of makes them more survivable into the bargain. I think I'll try and come up with a list tonight to see how I'd fit them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Just to add another viewpoint - keep in mind that Sterguard have some impressive ammo that mimics some of the abilities of plasma (not to mention they can take a couple of plasma guns and several combi-weapons) that make some pretty impressive shooty squads. They could work with a Command Squad (or two) or serve as a fairly inexpensive substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febelcrofas Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 I have used sternguard a lot and really rate them. I usually run 2 combi plas 2 combi melta and a heavy flamer, the command squads would probably be as well as sternguard although lately I've been foregoing the sterns because of the effectiveness of the command squad. I suppose it's just down to the armies I play against most. Mostly 3+s and 2+s I'm shooting against and that command squad goes through them like a hot knife through tau faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Alright, so captain + plasma command squad is easily around 350-400 points depending on how you kit the captain out, and the libby + BA honor guard come out at like 300 pts, right? So that's ~700 pts in two 5 men squads and 2 HQs, and that's if they're riding around in a rhino? I dunno, seems like an awful lot of points for 12 marines and 2 flimsy vehicles. :/ If your meta has a lot of footslogging MEQ it might be worth it, tho. I just wouldn't run it. I feel a prescience libby is better used with a close combat squad or buffing a devastator squad or some such. well with DA allies plasma command + libby with power field generator (4++ for everyone within 3"...) is 270pts if memory serves me right, so it could be better to get the other angel allies... take a 5 man tac squad with a flakk missile launcher for 95pts as the obligatry troop choice and for less than 400pts you get what you want and more... and with DA you dont have to get the apothecary so you could go 5 plasma guns... nnot as secure against gets hot but more hurt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I agree. I'd certainly go with DA allies for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febelcrofas Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 Damn! I haven't seen the new da codex yet. It's a shame because I've got my heart set on painting some flesh tearers! Nice to know the option is there. I'll have to give it a couple of goes and see how they hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Interesting point. In C:DA, a Libby with Prescience and a 5 man Command squad with 5 plasma guns (yes, 5), plus a Rhino, costs 275pts. Pretty good if you ask me. An ML2 Libby would take that to 310pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Damn! I haven't seen the new da codex yet. It's a shame because I've got my heart set on painting some flesh tearers! Nice to know the option is there. I'll have to give it a couple of goes and see how they hold up.Flesh tearers with guns instead of chainswords would look pretty weird anyway. ;] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Interesting point. In C:DA, a Libby with Prescience and a 5 man Command squad with 5 plasma guns (yes, 5), plus a Rhino, costs 275pts. Pretty good if you ask me. An ML2 Libby would take that to 310pts. This is how I'd do it. No one else gets quin-plasma Command Squads, and the Gets Hot! rolls are negated quite well by Prescience. If I was feeling extravagant, I'd ally in a C:SM Libby for Gate, instead of the Rhino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulochromis Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I guess you're all loyalists. No seems to have mentioned C:CSM: You used to be able to get 5 plasma guns into a chosen squad before, at work so no Codex, but would think that would still work. Think I've seen the jeske advocating for 2x8 chaos termies, all with combi-plasma as well. Being able to infiltrate and/or deepstrike with that much plasma can give them an edge over the loyalists (other than the C:BA HG). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febelcrofas Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 Wow five plasma guns! It's a real shame, I went and bought a load of blood angels stuff and I had an idea for a flesh tearers command squad, I've got loads of robotic legs and stuff and was gonna make them very beaten up veterans ago charge in and blow sh*t up with their massive guns and chainswords. Five in a dark angel command is making me wish I hadn't shelled out. I'm so impulsive! Maybe I'll do a da one as well! They'll both look badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Well you don't actually have to paint them as DA if you wanna use DA rules. As long as they're WYSIWYG I'm sure nobody will complain if your flesh tearers are using DA rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Interesting point. In C:DA, a Libby with Prescience and a 5 man Command squad with 5 plasma guns (yes, 5), plus a Rhino, costs 275pts. Pretty good if you ask me. An ML2 Libby would take that to 310pts. This is how I'd do it. No one else gets quin-plasma Command Squads, and the Gets Hot! rolls are negated quite well by Prescience. If I was feeling extravagant, I'd ally in a C:SM Libby for Gate, instead of the Rhino. Why just Gate? Just take Null Zone to really put the hate on those Terminators. Then, ML2 DA Libby with Prescience and Ignores Cover would make it a horrible, horrible unit. Of course, you could just hope for Misfortune and not take the second psyker. Well you don't actually have to paint them as DA if you wanna use DA rules. As long as they're WYSIWYG I'm sure nobody will complain if your flesh tearers are using DA rules. Very true. I use the DA rules for my DIY Chapter coloured like the chap in my avatar. Blue/grey armour, brown robes, their own organisation system. Just use those rules if you like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Well, you pick two powers, so yeah, Null Zone is the other. I prefer the mobility Gate offers most of the time. Both are good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I guess you're all loyalists. No seems to have mentioned C:CSM: You used to be able to get 5 plasma guns into a chosen squad before, at work so no Codex, but would think that would still work. Think I've seen the jeske advocating for 2x8 chaos termies, all with combi-plasma as well. Being able to infiltrate and/or deepstrike with that much plasma can give them an edge over the loyalists (other than the C:BA HG). Except that Chosen no longer have a native ability to infiltrate or outflank, and Dark Angels do multiple TDA units much better than C:CSM does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azash Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I was wondering what people thought about the practicalities or impracticalities of running two plasma command squads. Basically I run one in my ultramarine list unlocked with my captain. Now I love to take a bare bones libby too to get some null-zone going on. Recently however I used some space wolf allies for that lovely divination and the damage output as well as survivability of the unit literally went throught he roof. Which got me to thinking about blood angels. If I took say a small assault squad with say five men and a libby I can unlock an honour guard which I'm sure you all know is the blood angels eq. This would give me not only two plasma command squads but a libby with divination opening up all sorts of tactical flexibilty, for example having one aggresive squad that can really dominate the mid-field whilst still having a defensive one to really put off teleporting termies etc! Throw in the re-rolls provided by the blood angels libby and it is a very tempting prospect. So what do people think? Is it a bit too "eggs in one basket", or could it hold it's own in an otherwise ballanced list? As long as the rest of your army has something to deal with blobs. Lots of plasma is great if your in an MEQ heavy/only environment but if you run into blobs of cheap troops its gonna get you pretty minimal results. You will kill the hell out of whatever you kill but you wont be able to kill enough with 10 shots per squad to dent a decent sized blob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Plasma cannons aren't too bad against said blobs. Neither of demo cannons, which I consider a closely related cousin of plasma (game wise). But my idea for a mix of those things are Tactical squads with flamers, combi-flamers and plasma cannons in Rhinos. Quad (or quid if DA!) plasma Command squads. Possibly Sternguard with combi-plasmas among other things. Lots of MLs on things like Typhoons and Devs, and Vindicators. With that, you have a lot of the tools needed for a lot of combat environments, and the rest of the stuff (AGL, fast melta), just plugs into the list nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulochromis Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I guess you're all loyalists. No seems to have mentioned C:CSM: You used to be able to get 5 plasma guns into a chosen squad before, at work so no Codex, but would think that would still work. Think I've seen the jeske advocating for 2x8 chaos termies, all with combi-plasma as well. Being able to infiltrate and/or deepstrike with that much plasma can give them an edge over the loyalists (other than the C:BA HG). Except that Chosen no longer have a native ability to infiltrate or outflank, and Dark Angels do multiple TDA units much better than C:CSM does. Chaos can get Infiltrate As for your second comment: Tau & IG do big guns better, Orks & Tyrannids do Horde Better, SW do pods better, BA do jumpers better. So what. If you had said that DA do bike-mounted plasma better, that would have been more relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febelcrofas Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 I've been toying with some ideas, thanks for the input guys and I think I've decided on da rules for my flesh tearers. I like the idea of five pg in one Bosch, but I can always model an apothecary as well and mix it up on a game to game basis. I love options really. I came up with a mean conversion last night for my first honour guard member. I will post my prospective lists when I get my army builder working! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Pwah, you guys should play Heresy Era - 9 Man Plasma Gun squad = 335 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromaniac Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 To the OP: I think BA honour guard are a good option as they automatically get the FNP from the priest and DOA when equipt with JP (around 300pnts) and there's always death company for a troop choice if you have points to burn on giggles lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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