Potential for Dark Angels as Allies?

[Wulfebane]

At the risk of sounding blasphemous for even suggesting associating with the dress-wearers, my end-goal would be using the DA codex for a non-dress DIY chapter completely unaffiliated fluffwise with DA.

 

So since the codex has been out for a while, I'm curious if anyone has had the opportunity to use them for allies, ideally with Wolves. I want to know what units might work best synergistically, especially considering that they're allies of convenience and not true battle brothers. Additionally, what do they have that's better than our comparable unit options?

 

Also wondering if its worth it or if BA and IG still win for ally choices.

[Hiroitchi]

One word skyfire... Until Space Wolves get such updates, you would have to rely on fortifications.

[Wulfebane]

That is a given for any allies we take, sadly. Anything more indepth?

[TheBiasedBloodAngel]

Rune preist casting divination on a fang squad seems to be enough to deal with fliers, much better than paying for flak missiles in my opinion. Don't associate with Dark Angels Wulfebane they can't be trusted!

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I can see this causing confusion if you're still into using Death Wing figures as Wolf Guard

On a serious note, apart from the flyer, I'm really not sure what they bring to the party that's worth having to take a non-SW HQ and troops choice.

[eyeslikethunder]

Being allies of convience really reduces their value as none of their troops are scoring

Their fliers are meh

And their skyfire options are expensive witht IG and BA being battlebrothers just can't see the point

[hendrik]

go guards! ;) after all, what allied troop choice allows you to bring in almost 100 extra bodies? ;)

[Marshall Bretton]

and 3 tanks per heavy support choice

[Squark]

Being allies of convience really reduces their value as none of their troops are scoring

Their fliers are meh

And their skyfire options are expensive witht IG and BA being battlebrothers just can't see the point

No, Allies of Convenience are totally scoring. It's Desperate Allies who can't score.

 

Really, though, as has been said, Guard offers everything Dark Angels do (Apart from things we already do) apart from Deathwing, who are heavily defanged when they don't score (Stupid Primary Detachment Only ruling). If you want marine allies, Codex Marines are battle brothers (which means we don't shut off their librarians), Can bring 2, stronger fliers, have decent objective sitting scouts, 40 point hammernators, and Null zone. Also, the Thunderfire Cannon, which is always good.

[Forté]

Hmm...think someone has missed his daily Mjod. Either that or a socking is in order!

[skeletoro]

Fluff-wise, I actually like the idea of playing an allies of convenience pair-up. It begs the question: WHY are wolves and dark angels working together? Which then leads to creativity :P
 

Of course, you said you don't want to fluff them as actual dark angels, which is fine too.

 

Given that it clearly wasn't for fluff reasons, what was it that drew you to explore this option in the first place? Was it more curiosity or was there a DA unit you're interested in?

 

Personally I like the look of all those ravenwing models, although I hear they're a tad pricey. And cheap psykers are SWEET. At 60 points, I'd probably put one in every grey hunters pack if I was able. But sadly, allies of convenience kinda munts that. It would be a shame to be limited in my ability to throw around blessings to whoever I want.

[Wulfebane]

Given that it clearly wasn't for fluff reasons, what was it that drew you to explore this option in the first place? Was it more curiosity or was there a DA unit you're interested in?

With everyone taking BA for Wulfen and IG for Fenrisian PDF (I plan to do this one at some point), I wanted to do something more contrasting to my Wolves on the tabletop, so thought a strict, highly monastic army would fit the bill. As far as fluff goes, I could do this with nearly any codex if the IA is written appropriately, but I can't stop staring at the Deathwing box kit, particularly those maces and that TDA plasma cannon.

[skeletoro]

Fair enough! If I had the DA codex I could give you some useful advice... but I don't >.>

[Loki-LaughingDeath]

While there is a possibility that would require a massive event to happen such as another Black Crusade, massive Ork invasion, a tactical squad and pack of Grey Hunters facing down a Tyranid swarm taking on a planet. 

 

Other than that no not really, neither one of these chapters is looking to forgive the other one.

[Squark]

To be fair, just because we're allied with the Dark Angels, doesn't mean we're forgiving them. The current codex even discusses the protocol for when the two legions*  are forced to work together during a campaign. Dress or nor dresses, they're still loyalist marines, and on the battlefield, that's the important thing.

 

 

 

 

*By Dark Angels legion, I mean the Dark Angels and all their successor chapters. As for us, well, for all intents and purposes, the Space Wolves still are a legion.

[Akela]

Mechanics wise, part of me likes the cheese of the nasty one-two punch of a Dark Talon's Initiative-dropping Rift Bomb and a Rune Priest casting Jaws of the World Wolf

[Wulfebane]

 

Mechanics wise, part of me likes the cheese of the nasty one-two punch of a Dark Talon's Initiative-dropping Rift Bomb and a Rune Priest casting Jaws of the World Wolf

Ahh.. now this is the sort of thing I'm eager to hear. Is the Dark Talon a viable option for anti-air?

[Squark]

 

 

Mechanics wise, part of me likes the cheese of the nasty one-two punch of a Dark Talon's Initiative-dropping Rift Bomb and a Rune Priest casting Jaws of the World Wolf

Ahh.. now this is the sort of thing I'm eager to hear. Is the Dark Talon a viable option for anti-air?

 

*snicker*

 

 

Err... Sorry... Let's just say the answer is a resounding, "No." It's anti-air firepower consists exclusively of 6 twin-linked boltguns. And the Nephilim isn't much better.

[Akela]

Meh, you don't get the Dark Talon as anti-air.  It's close-air support, would actually fit better with our army than theirs.  Don't get me wrong, if we get a flyer, I certainly hope it's more potent than either of the Dark Angels variants, but the Dark Talon could be devastating if it's bomb hit an elite infantry unit before either a Rune Priest w/ Jaws of the World Wolf or a huge pack of Blood Claws assaulted who suddenly aren't hampered by WS 3.

 

That said, there are better points of synergy with their army.   Heck, just having a couple troop units with a flakk missile launcher would be a game changer.

[Squark]

Just thought I'd go slot by slot for the Unforgiven and evaluate things.

 

HQ: Librarian's powers go off less than half the time because we're allies of convenience, so the runic weapon tries to cancel their psychic powers. So he's out. That leaves Chaplains. They're not a bad force multiplier, I guess, but it still feels like a tax.

 

Troops: Flak Missile Launchers are the only thing we have any use for, and you're only getting two. To get flak missiles to work, you need at least 5-6, spread out across the board so a flier can't alpha strike them. Scouts are a tad cheaper than codex marine scouts, but those guys have combat tactics instead of stubborn (which is why I could see C:SM troops being a point more expensive than Dark Angels stuff. Combat tactics is an awesome buff. Stubborn? It's actively bad on anything with ATSKNF, since if you lost combat, odds are you want to run away, since there's no consequence for that. Stubborn makes that less likely. Ergo, stubborn marines shoot themselves in the foot with their special rule). Also, Codex Marines are battle brothers and have unique goodies the Unforgiven lack. Ravenwing and Deathwing are both out for allied detachments.

 

Elites: Deathwing Terminators who score are impressive. When they don't... not so much. Deathwing knights might be a passable anvil for hammer and anvil strategy, but they cost a ton, and you're already paying taxes in the HQ and Troops department. Dreadnaughts, are well, dreadnaughts. DO you really need more?

 

Fast Attack: Ravenwing Bikers are fantastic... When they score. Since they're not doing that, they're less impressive. Black Knights are mostly redundant next to Thunderwolf cavalry. The Darkshroud really works best with another darkshroud near it (So that it gets a 2+ jink save), and doesn't affect us. That leaves the fliers. The Nephalim is definately near the bottom as fliers go, while the Dark talon is useless for air dominance, which is what Wolves want their fliers for.

 

Heavy Support: More Expensive than Long fangs even before the flakk missile tax comes in. BUt, flakk missiles, you say? Well, the think is, without spamming them (through multiple units, not one unit of 4), they just die the turn a flier comes on to the interceptor fire. Go guard and take Hydras instead. The landspeeder is a lone landspeeder in the heavy support slot (i.e. eyebrow raising and not good). The rest of the heavy support choices are basically the same standard marine stuff we know and love, but with some price finangling. Nothing to write home about.

 

 

Now, if you want to do this for fluff (I personally love the idea of the two ancient rivals being forced to work together and gradually develop a grudging respect for each other), go right ahead. But mechanically? Just vox over the nearest guard regiment. Even if they die in droves, hey, they died fighting alongside the Astartes. That's not that much different than what a modern soldier would feel if they saw actual angels as they died (On Fenrisian PDF... They don't exist, since Fenris is a feral world. I guess the wolves, if desperate enough, might take the chapter serfs assigned to marine duty (that is, the duty of actually being a literal marine and guarding the ships while we do the real fighting) and form them into a blob on the battlefield, but the only guard tanks we have are a handful of Leman Russ Exterminators we keep in honor of our primarch).