Deathwing Command Squad - Which heavy weapon?

[Upstartes]

So, I know most people prefer a squad of DWK over a DW command squad, but let's set that aside for a moment. I'm building a command squad that I'll use sometimes, and we'll leave it at that. My question is: what heavy weapon to use?

 

I intend to use the squad with the Standard of Fortitude and with Belial attached to bring it down exactly where I want it. The standard bearer will have TH/SS. There will be no apothecary, because that's redundant. I'll be using the champion because... rule of cool! Two more guys will have TH/SS, because I expect this squad will a) be a target and b) get into HtH. So my last question is: what heavy weapon do I use? Options:

 

1) Assault cannon - the go-to these days for Vengeful Strike madness.

2) CML - depending on how the next FAQ comes out, this can go on a TH/SS guy - another shield!

3) Plasma cannon - Since Belial can precisely position this squad, I can drop it near high-armor save infantry and ruin my opponent's day. Vengeful Strike and Standard of Fortitude both amplify this option.

4) Heavy Flamer - I generally don't like heavy flamers on my terminators. I just like them to hit harder than that. However, like option 3, this would benefit from Belial being able to put it IN YOUR FACE.

 

So, given that I'm building this team regardless of whether there is a better squad for the points, what do you think the best heavy weapon choice is for these guys?

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Well my friend my opinion should be taken with a huge serving of salt because I have yet to get a game in with 6th edition yet. Looking at what you've got set up for the squad I would say go with the CML. Gives you the other TH/SS and some long range thumping if needed. My 2 cents.

 

Disciples

[BigGumbo]

If you're taking the Champion due to the Rule of Cool, then there's surely only one option: that underslung Plasma Cannon

[Rizara]

Yeah and the plasma cannon wound also counts against FNP so if you happen to fail the 2+ armor save you get the save from the banner.. Their is also the rule of cool and the just cause we can. After all, we currently get the only termie command squad and the only termies that can take the plasma cannon. Plus with split fire it can always fire at a different target on turns you plan to charge a unit.

[elphilo]

Man I want to say why not all of them? But I know you have to pick one. The PC is an obvious choice just incase you overheat and fail an armor. But I think you'll want to go with CML so he can have a TH/SS as well. That way you have 4 guys with a 2+/3++/FnP. And you'll have one more dude to help protect that banner bearer from low AP weapons.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Don't get me wrong. Love the plasma cannon especially on a command squad with FNP. In fact I'm planning on two command squads with 2 Apoth's and 2 PC's but I will be running Storm Bolters with mine to add to the shooting. Maybe a Champ just for giggles but if I'm running TH/SS might as well go all out and add a CML. Once again my two cents.

[march10k]

Rule of Cool begs for plasma...but dropping a turn one heavy flamer template precisely where you want it is too good to pass up!  The thought of hitting an IG company command squad, those stoopid 2++ snipers that the space elves run around with, the 150,000 bodies pressed in behind an ADL, or a tau pathfinder squad...yum! 

[Master Sheol]

My DWCS is: Champion, Banner bearer with DW banner + SS/TH, Apothecary, SB+CF, PC+PF.

For DWCS rule of cool begs for a plasma cannon.

[Mantras]

Ive used the flamer trick with Belial, trust me it works. In one game - 9 horrors, next game, 10 Ork Shooty Boys, all just from the flamer. Add in the Storm bolter shots that can be aimed to either finish off the squad you shot at or soften up another, means First blood will be easy.

 

EDIT - dont forget you can put the heavy weapon on the standard bearer!

[Tamwulf]

All four heavy weapons have their place. If anything, defining what your Deathwing Command Squad will be doing will help.

 

Deepstriking turn 1 or 2 right in your opponent's face? The Heavy Flamer is awesome!

 

Walking up the table? Cyclone Missile Launcher or Plasma Cannon works. This is also a good anti-tank (light and medium) configuration.

 

Anti-infantry or anti-aircraft? Assault Cannon or again, the CML.

 

Anti-MEQ? Plasma Cannon.

 

Pure kewl factor and something no other army can do? Plasma Cannon.

 

The Flamer trick will probably only work once or twice against most opponents, and it's a bit of a suicide tactic. However, it can be highly effective if used with multiple Deathwing units. I really think the CML or PC are the two best choices for the Deathwing Command Squad in terms of versatility. They both work great for anti-infantry and anti-tank. They only work when you can shoot them, so they lend themselves more to a "walk up the field" approach, not the "DS in yer face!"- style Deathwing Assault. The Assault Cannon is an OK weapon, but that's the problem. It's only OK. It's OK against infantry, but the CML or PC is probably better. It's OK vs. tanks, but the CML or PC is probably better. Deathwing Assault turn 1 and the Flamer is probably better.

 

The critical piece here is that you have to plan out ahead of time what you are going to use these guys for, and what they will do, as well as what role the rest of your army will play with them.

[Upstartes]

So, I seem to have narrowed it down to plasma cannon or CML.

 

I plan to bring the command squad down as part of a Deathwing Assault including multiple deathwing terminator squads, all with assault cannons. The command squad will be in a supporting role. I may have mentioned this above, but here it is again and in more detail:

 

The command squad will be bearing the Standard of Fortitude. I will bring in all the other deepstriking terminators first. After their locations are known, I will put the command squad (using attached Belial) down in the middle of all of them, covering as many of the other squads with the standard's area of effect as possible. Because of this, the command squad may not be positioned optimally for a heavy flamer. Assault cannons are covered by the other deathwing squds. So the command squad would be well served by the harder-hitting plasma cannon or CML. The CML seems like it might be better overall - better anti-vehicle, decent anti-horde, and it will go on a terminator with TH/SS, allowing one more shield in the team. The plasma cannon, however, seems cooler, and would be way more painful to chaos space marines, which I play frequently.

 

Rule of cool? Or tactical advantage? Decisions, decisions. Maybe I'll roll a die.

[Polythemus]

If your using a DWCS with SoF ill assume your using at least one other squad of deathwing. This means you really need to think about whether you will be using telehomers or not. If not then i would send belial with dwcs as you suggested. If you are using telehomers then it opens up new tactical avenues for you. The dwcs is always gonna need to be supporting other dw squads so they should really be placed towards the back of your spearhead. This limits the choices you can make further, and means that the PC or CML are really the best options. Additionally i would advocate for the loadout to be th/ss x3 (w/ one cml), sb/pfx1, champ x1 this allows you to actually fire and charge two different target, increasing your utility further.

 

Additionally you can put belial in a different squad to create a problem set for the opponent to solve. does he try to shoot and kill the banner, Or does he go for belial and the VP for slay the warlord? This creates target priority problems so he has to choose his poison. You could always place a flamer in the squad with belial, which i was able to do in a recent tourney. I expect that the results for flamer versus asscan are about equal usless you are facing horde, and even then most pple space out so 6 hits is probably your max. Plus you can keep the asscan longer since you dont need to place it at the front of your squad. Rule of cool has its merits but form follows function, pragmatism leads me to suggest the cml.

[march10k]

All four heavy weapons have their place. If anything, defining what your Deathwing Command Squad will be doing will help.

 

Deepstriking turn 1 or 2 right in your opponent's face? The Heavy Flamer is awesome!

 

Walking up the table? Cyclone Missile Launcher or Plasma Cannon works. This is also a good anti-tank (light and medium) configuration.

 

Anti-infantry or anti-aircraft? Assault Cannon or again, the CML.

 

Anti-MEQ? Plasma Cannon.

 

Pure kewl factor and something no other army can do? Plasma Cannon.

 

The Flamer trick will probably only work once or twice against most opponents, and it's a bit of a suicide tactic. However, it can be highly effective if used with multiple Deathwing units. I really think the CML or PC are the two best choices for the Deathwing Command Squad in terms of versatility. They both work great for anti-infantry and anti-tank. They only work when you can shoot them, so they lend themselves more to a "walk up the field" approach, not the "DS in yer face!"- style Deathwing Assault. The Assault Cannon is an OK weapon, but that's the problem. It's only OK. It's OK against infantry, but the CML or PC is probably better. It's OK vs. tanks, but the CML or PC is probably better. Deathwing Assault turn 1 and the Flamer is probably better.

 

The critical piece here is that you have to plan out ahead of time what you are going to use these guys for, and what they will do, as well as what role the rest of your army will play with them.

Overall, I agree...but there are several statements to which I object. The first is the suggestion that the PC is better than an assault cannon in the antitank role. This is patently false. The PC has a pip of strength and the AP2 modifier on the damage table going for it. On the other hand, the average number of hits from an assault cannon is three, versus a maximum possible of one from the PC. When it comes to shooting light tanks, the AC is clearly superior because it will achieve more penetrating hits per round of shooting, potentially stripping all of the enemy tank's HP even if no critical damage is inflicted....and therefore, glancing hits from an AC are more than acceptable, while a mere glancing hit from a PC is a disappointment. Also, bear in mind that when shooting at AV13, the per-shot pen chance is identical...but the AC achieves, as mentioned, 3x the hits. And, of course, against AV14, the AC gets three shots at the 1/36 chance of a pen, which is infinitely superior to the PC's automatic failure to even glance.

 

You suggest that the PC is the best anti-MEQ weapon. It's only better if you can get 3 or more MEQs under the template. It also lacks instakill against T4 and has shorter range than the CML, not to mention the opportunity cost...you can't have hammer, claws, or stormbolter paired with a PC.

 

I think that the best all-rounder is the CML, followed by the AC. The HF is only good for a scatter-free DS, or when stepping off of the assault ramp of a land raider, but then it's excellent. The PC is good in two situations only. One, when you're facing TEQs with excellent long range shooting who are faster than you (so forcing them into assault is impossible), or when you're a golden daemon quality painter and the squad in question is also being entered in a painting competition, in which case the presence of a "nobody else can have one" PC may put you over the top.