IA: Stygian Angels "Sons of Perdition"

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Drugs and gun-running (stupid name for it) are a means to an end; money and money usually means power.

 

So a particularly ruthless, win-at-all-costs, style of Chapter might use access to such commodities in a bid to increase either their influence or sphere of power.

 

Or something.

[Ecritter]

CJJ .... good to see you old friend.

 

Not going for all the Hell's Angels aspects, so no drugs, or gun running.  Just the ruthless, singleminded (you had it with win-at-all-costs style) killing machine parts.  I'll get the main post updated tomorrow with all my thoughts.

[Ecritter]

Origins, Homeworld and Geneseed done and ready for review.

 

More to come in the next few days.

[Firepower]

An honored few were chosen to go forth and complete the task before them.

A bit redundant.

After receiving the precious geneseed and equipment from the Adeptus Mechanicus, the training cadre returned to a planet that was well known to their Commander.

Why was it well known?

There they began to recruit and train new Marines as was their duty to Khan and the Emperor.

"The Khan," not just "Khan." It's a title, not a name. Think of it like it means "King." So Jaghatai Khan would mean "King Jaghatai," but without his name you'd be saying "train new Marines as was their duty to King and the Emperor."

After many years of building and training they earned the right to return to their beloved Chapter, their final duty was to turn over command to the new Chapter's Master who christened the new chapter, Stygian Angels.

Kind of a gray area there, seeing as it's not established in the fluff, but I would think that the coterie assigned to training a new Chapter would stay with that Chapter, not return to their original fraternity. Just going by how long the training cadre is likely to live versus the experience required for the new Chapter's starting ranks to gain experience enough to work on their own...

 

The underhive of Kirin is ruled by roving gangs, too numerous to count.  The gangland lifestyle that the population is forced to live to survive is perfect for the Angels' purposes, and they have never suffered from a lack of recruits.

That second sentence is really rough.

 

Why is it ideal for recruiting? What assets does that lifestyle instill in kids that the Angels find desirable?

 

 

Their loyalties no long to Kirin or the gangs, but now loyal only to the Angels and the Emperor.

- Silent Killers, silent to those outside the chapter .. no battle cries, etc.

- Merciless killers, anything to reach their goal .. the Emperor's goal

- Brutally efficient, Cold hearted, anyone or anything between them and their target is a target

- Overwhelming force of arms, open with orbital bombardment, then drop pods, always on the attack

- Heavy Biker squad numbers, no Devs and very few Tanks

This all seems a bit contradictory. Specifically, the Silent Killers bit. All out offensive strategy, combined with bombardments and drop pods and bikes doesn't really spell 'silent.' Unless you're limiting it to just the literal intention now of 'they don't talk to people.' Aside from that confusion, it mostly sounds archetypal of Space Marines, which is fine. Not everything in an IA has to (or should) be special and different.

The geneseed of the Emperor's 5th Legion, the White Scars, and their Primarch Jaghatai Khan was given to the Stygian Angels by their predecessors the Storm Lords.

 

Doubt this could be more redundant even if you tried to make it more redundant....

 

Not a bad skeletal outline, all in all.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Firepower

[Ecritter]

Firepower - Several changes made to fix errors you pointed out.  Some (yes only some) redundancies fixed, others left (for redundancy sake).

 

Complete article now up for review.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Ecritter

[Gripharius]

Interesting Chapter and the IA looks pretty good. Maybe consider adding a line or two explaining how they became so mobile-centric? Maybe the WS commander was a Veteran Assault Biker and had always dreammed of fielding an entire company of bikes, never seeing the use for footsloggers or slow tanks. Just a thought.

 

Also, I think Stygian Angels works better for the Hells Angels theme you are going for. Maybe Angels Stygian.

[Firepower]

An honored few were chosen as a training cadre, and went forth and complete the task before them.

Still hate this sentence

 

After receiving the precious geneseed and equipment from the Adeptus Mechanicus, the training cadre returned to a planet that was well known to their Commander, as the Storm Lords had found recruits there on several occasions.  They claimed it as their own, and there they began to recruit and train new Marines as was their duty to the Imperium and the Emperor.

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe the AdMech just hands over a thousand gene-seeds and sends the new group on their merry way. Rather the AdMech grows a Chapter's worth of Marines themselves as sort of a blank slate starter kit and those folks are taken under the wing of a veteran group (presumably, that last part isn't set in stone anywhere in official fluff).

 

Bear in mind that a fleet with a thousand gene-seeds on board would be the sweetest target imaginable, too

After many years of building and training they earned the right to return to their beloved Chapter,

Again, I don't think they go back home, but stay with their new proteges.

their final duty was to turn over command to the new Chapter's Master who christened the new chapter, the Stygian Angels.

You capitalized Chapter and then spelled it lowercase. Also, try to avoid using the same words in repetition, especially in a single sentence. In this case, two 'new Chapter' in one sentence.

 

The moon of Kirin, in orbit around the gas giant of Maelon III

Remove the second 'of'

Fortress Monestary

Monastery.

 

The gangland lifestyle that the population is forced to live to survive is perfect for the Angels' purposes. The constant gang wars and harsh conditions bred brutal young warriors, for this reason the chapter has never suffered from a lack of recruits.

The first sentence is confusing, and the secnd is actually two sentences. Try something like-

 

"Joining one of the countless gangs that dominate the underhives is the only way to survive the constant wars over territory, resources, and blood-feuds. The cutthroat lifestyle and merciless environment of the underhive itself molds children into brutal warriors, and so the Angels have never lacked for raw recruits."

 

Following the example of Jaghatai Khan, whom combined the warring tribes of the steppes of Mundus Planus, the Angels combine recruits from different gangs into a single fighting force.  Their loyalties no longer to Kirin or its gangs, but now loyal only to the Angels and the Emperor.

 

Edited the first sentence. The second line is not a sentence.

they will do anything and anyone, or anything, that stands between them and that goal is to be destroyed.

....huh? Say this out loud and tell me it sounds right.

No amount of brutality or pain can keep them from pushing forward

As it's written, it implies brutality and pain being inflicted on the Angels.

In their eyes, the end truly justifies the means.

Ends.

 

Also, to reiterate, this is not a unique belief. There are plenty of ruthless Chapters with a no-holds-barred mentality. I only mention this because you say it sets them apart.

 

The organization of the Stygian Angels reflects Kirin's gang structure.  The chapter only recruits from their "city-planet" home.  Only the best and most promising young warriors are chosen, with no regard for gang affiliation, to become Space Marines.

The first sentence and last sentence sort of contradict one another. More importantly, most of the paragraph has either been said earlier, or has no bearing on Organization at all.

 

Unlike other Codex Chapters, and even their parent chapter, the Stygian Angels are entirely a mounted force.

The White Scars are almost entirely mounted. Though I guess they are technically the parent of the Angels' parent Chapter. Another issue comes to mind- there are plenty of battlefields where it is impossible or at least very impractical to limit all forces to mounted combat. It's perfectly fine (and in line with the Scars' traditions) to have a strong preference for mounted warfare, but mounted warfare at the exclusion of all else is unrealistic.

 

They use Bike Squadrons and Land Speeders, reflecting their preferred style of warfare.  The chapter is also completely devoid of Devastator Squads, replacing those slow heavy weapons squads with Attack Bike Squadrons instead.  Fighting on foot is abhorrent to the chapter and Veterans do not use Tactical Dreadnought Armor, but remain in Veteran Bike Squadrons.  Finally, they do not possess any Dreadnoughts, as those are seen as the epitome of slow "stand and fight" warfare that is completely opposed to the Angels combat style.

Nothing particularly wrong with this bit. The one issue is "Why?" What causes this preference, and why is it so strong as to eschew valuable assets like Terminator Armor?

 

Their vehicles allow the Angels to get in range to use them weapons

Whoopsy.

Smaller forces are easily overrun by the Angels, while larger forces are confused as they are struck by mass attacks at different points over and over.

I'd look for a way to rephrase the second half, especially "over and over." Try "repeatedly" or something else instead.

 

It may seem cold hearted to others, but to the Angels its all necessary to achieve the goals of the Emperor.

"It's" not "its." Also, what are the goals of the Emperor? The answer may be something interesting to add to the Beliefs section. For instance, is something considered the goal of the Emperor simply because it's their own goal? Do they have a specific goal which they believe to be his goal?

 

Prior to battle, squads are assigned to packs.  Each pack has its own hierarchy, its leader is responsible for for directing the pack's attacks.  If the leader falls, the next in command automatically takes over the attack.

Wait, now we have "packs?" It doesn't really fit with the previous theme of the Chapter's organization. Also, the last sentence is an inherent concept for pretty much any military unit. It goes without saying, so don't say it

Squad members follow their leaders without question, and their complete lack of the need to communicate during battle confuses friend and foe alike.

Communication with one another is pretty much required, unless they have some supernatural method of sharing thoughts. But seeing as Marine helmets have built in radios, they can communicate with one another without others being able to hear, which would make them appear silent, I suppose. But it's not extraordinary enough for anyone to stop and worry over it. Silence outside of battle would be more disconcerting- no coordination with allies, no taunts or challenges or threats to enemies, just cold, silent, heavily armed statues.

 

The geneseed of the Emperor's 5th Legion, the White Scars, and their Primarch Jaghatai Khan was given to the Stygian Angels by their predecessors the Storm Lords.

  

Really, this is an awful sentence. "Emperor's 5th Legion, the White Scars, and their Primarch Jaghatai Khan" is saying the exact same thing three times. It looks like you are trying to come off as dramatic, but really it just sounds clumsy.

 

 

You still have a ways to go. One general issue is that the Organization and Combat Tactics sections overlap a lot as it stands. I'd try to think of something unique and fitting for the Beliefs section in particular- that(and Origins) is where you really develop a personality for a Chapter. Try thinking of what sort of philosophy or disposition a group would develop when you mix their connection to gangs and their connection to their gene-seed heritage. A ruthless Chapter isn't special, but you can make them stand out by giving them a unique reason for being ruthless. Or why would the training cadre choose Kirin? Marines often look for more of a connection with a planet or its people beyond the availability of recruits- it's not a requirement, but it helps breathe life into the IA.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Firepower

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Origins:

 

I, personally, couldn't see a moon being colonised enough to become any type of hive-world.

 

Moons, according to my possibly made-up understanding of planetary bodies, would generally be smaller than the world they orbit so it would make more sense for recruiting to be done on a planet and the moon to be the home of the Chapter Fortress (a la Salamanders).

 

Beliefs:

 

" To complete the mission that the Emperor had given the great Legions of the Space Marines, they will do anything and anyone, or anything, that stands between them and that goal is to be destroyed."

 

They will do anyone? Kinky.

 

On a serious note, this is really badly worded and also making a whooping great oversight; the Emperor commanded the Legions to unite the scattered remnants of mankind under the Imperium in order that they fulfil the great destiny to rule the cosmos.

 

Organisation:

 

Given the age at which a Chapter recruits, realistically how young and accomplished can you expect a child to be when you talk about "only the best and most promising"?

 

If they only fight mounted, what happens when circumstances change and they encounter an enemy who prefers to fight in broken or difficult terrain? Also, this would be at odds with "win-at-all-costs".

 

Combat Tactics:

 

You start talking about "packs" which seems to come out of nowhere and then go on to state the, somewhat, obvious that if the commander falls his second would take over - this would seem standard SOP for Marines.

[Messor]

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe the AdMech just hands over a thousand gene-seeds and sends the new group on their merry way. Rather the AdMech grows a Chapter's worth of Marines themselves as sort of a blank slate starter kit and those folks are taken under the wing of a veteran group (presumably, that last part isn't set in stone anywhere in official fluff).

 

Bear in mind that a fleet with a thousand gene-seeds on board would be the sweetest target imaginable, too

I'm fairly certain you are mistaken. I doubt the AdMech would even be allowed to grow Marines. That would be way too much power. Additionally, once a Chapter is on it's feet, it's still producing as much gene-seed as possible. Between casualties and their ability to recover it, they're trying to keep it as close to a thousand progenoids as possible. The limiting factors are success rate of implantation and the Codex Astartes. However, this just how I think it works.

Again, I don't think they go back home, but stay with their new proteges.

I'm sure there are no statistics, but there are definitely training cadres that return to their home Chapter. I do find it less likely that the a new Chapter Master would be nominated, though. Usually the commander of the training cadre does stay behind to be the first Master.

 

The rest of brother Firepower's comments are pretty much on the mark. I'd especially recommend moving away from the 'packs' terminology, and emphasizing that communication only happens between Chapter members and others are expected to keep up, or get left behind. It would make for plentiful, and interesting conflicts with allied forces.

[Ecritter]

Lots of great information and ideas, thanks to all who have contributed.  I have made alot of the changes suggested, here are my thoughts on those I have not made.

 

Origins

 

What happens to Training Cadres has been much debated over the years here on B&C.  From those discussions and what I've seen from canon sources it can go one of several different ways.  Some stay, some return to the parent chapter.  I chose to go with the latter.

 

Homeworld

 

Moons are smaller then the body they orbit, however a Gas Giant is huge when compared to Terra.  A moon around a large Gas Giant could in theory be as big as Terra.  Kirin is not that large, being on the smallish size.  So think between the size of Terra and Luna ... and you get Kirin.

 

Beliefs

 

I never said their beliefs were unique, only that it sets them apart from many other chapters.

 

Combat Tactics

 

With the WSs background, I see a fully mobile force as a naturally possible extension for a successor to take.

 

Communication, if you're following your leader and doing everything he does ... there's no real need to communicate.

[Firepower]

Hmmm...

To be frank, I'm just not getting much out of it. Nothing really sticks out as an interesting twist, an odd quirk, an exceptional characteristic or anything like that. It sort of reads like a pamphlet: 'Yup those are Space Marines all right, but with ketchup.' Where's the oregano, the peppers, the special sauce, or the side of curly fries?  Not even an after dinner mint?  It's wafer thin! -sorry, you spend enough time in the BT subforum and Monty Python quotes just start popping out of you-

There's a lot of untapped potential in some parts that I already prodded at a bit, but you don't seem to be itching to use a drill.  

 

Of course it's your IA and so it should be tailored to your personal needs, but as a reader, I'm still kinda 'meh.'  It doesn't stink, but it's not especially engaging, either.  There's no hook.

 

Also, as another technical commentary, there's always a need for some level of communication with squad mates.  Think of all the times you might have to say 'On the left, look out Bob, incoming, split up, aim for the gonads, I go high you go low' or any number of basic useful bits that you wouldn't be able to pick up on just by silently following a leader.  If they can get all that without verbally communicating, it's an unnatural talent (one that could add a touch of flavor to the IA if you explore and expand it a bit ).

 

As another side note, I would reconsider the subtext of the thread's title.  The Emperor has lots of Angels.  Lots.  You can do better than that.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Firepower

[Ecritter]

I'm sorry that my Angels aren't as exciting as my other two chapters.  Every chapter can't be loyal Wordbearers or Spartan Nazi's in Space.  I still find them interesting and kinda fun.  :(

[Malthe]

So make the rest of us think so too ;)

 

Regarding Combat Doctrine, I would seriously think twice about the 'only mounted' thing. You're basically making your marines useless in boarding actions, cqc, hold-the-line defences, and fighting in any sort of broken terrein.

That is one hell of a handicap!

 

Instead maybe have it be an honor thing - like a knight would always fight from horseback if possible, but only while it was tactically viable. Maybe your recruits are only officially initiated once they master their first bike (though that might be stretching the theme a little too far).

Makes a lot more sense :)

 

I really like the HA-theme, its got a lot of potential. If I were you I try to emphasize the brotherhood, competition and us-vs-them attitudes commonly found in gangs. A mix of complete loyalty to the chapter and ruthless struggle to be on top (seriously guys...) would make for an interesting dynamic.

Make them stand out for how they work internally, rather than how they do externally.

 

Just a couple of suggestions :)

[Ecritter]

Very tired today, I'll think it over and see what comes up.

[Ecritter]

I don't guess there's a chance I can use Jetbikes for my vets?

[Firepower]

Very super mega ultra unlikely.  Having just one would be incredible and require explanation.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Firepower

[Ecritter]

I could come up with a reasonable explanation why they have around 100 Mk14 Jetbikes ... its not impossible. :p

[Firepower]

The Dark Angels, which have been around since Jetbikes were readily available, have one (with some rumors that they might have a small cache in reserve).  The technology in general is considered next to extinct.  Saying your Chapter found/stole/acquired 100 Jetbikes would be akin to saying they found 30 Oberons and a second Phalanx, which they then used to find Vulkan, the Khan, Russ and the graves of the 2 Lost Primarchs.

 

So no, it's not impossible, but it is ridiculous.  It sounds like one of those over reaching attempts to make a Chapter super cool without regard to the setting they are in (the established 40k universe).

 

If you really want to include Jetbikes, let it be a singular one belonging to a Champion or the Chapter Master or something, and even then you'll have to come up with a clever explanation.  Nothing is impossible, but 100 Jetbikes in a Chapter (a successor Chapter no less) is damn close.  I strongly urge that you do not even try to sell that.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Firepower

[Captain Juan Juarez]

On the subject of Jetbikes:

 

Does this then mean that lurking somewhere in the cosmos is the STC for creating Jetbikes? As, obviously, the Imperium had the ability to create them until some point in the past.

[Firepower]

There is a rumor that the DA might have the STC hidden away to replace the Jetbike that Sammael rides about.  But that's a rumor, and even if it were true, this is the DA...secrets are kinda their thing.

 

Just because there were STCs at one point doesn't mean there are now.  They can be destroyed, wear out over time, etc. just as much as anything else.  So the fact that they once existed does not mean that they necessarily exist now, waiting to be rediscovered.

 

But anyway, you'd have better odds of finding a working Jetbike than you would finding the STC itself, and even the former is a very distant possibility.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Firepower

[Ecritter]

Reply to move to page 1 ... cause Batman seems to be posting again, and I want his input.

[Octavulg]

You've been on the list. You were one of two left when I went to bed last night, but I went and found a bunch more people who had no or even fewer replies, and I try to give those people priority. Not that most of them ever respond, but that's the criticism game for you.

 

Right now you're sixth fifth, but that'll drop pretty quick. I mean, I did a dozen or so yesterday.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Octavulg

[Octavulg]

And I'm here because everyone's IA is incredibly short.

 

I could get used to this.

In the time of the 9th Founding of Adeptus Astartes, the Storm Lords, carrying the geneseed of Jaghatai Khan, were given the great privilege of fathering a new chapter of Space Marines. An honored few were chosen as a training cadre, and went forth and complete the task before them.

 

After receiving the precious geneseed and equipment from the Adeptus Mechanicus, the training cadre returned to a planet that was well known to their Commander, as the Storm Lords had found recruits there on several occasions. They claimed it as their own, and there they began to recruit and train new Marines as was their duty to the Imperium and the Emperor. After many years of building and training they earned the right to return to their beloved Chapter, their final duty was to turn over command to the new chapter's Master who christened them, the Stygian Angels.

This is delightfully minimalist, but you could probably pare it down to one paragraph. Something like "Founded in the Ninth Founding from the line of Jaghatai Khan, the Stygian Angels were mentored by the Storm Lords and given one of that Chapter's recruitment worlds as their new home." Then throw in a line about what they've been doing since and we launch right into Home World.

Following the example of Jaghatai Khan's combining the warring tribes of the steppes of Mundus Planus, the Angels combine recruits from different gangs into a single fighting force. Their loyalties no longer to Kirin or its gangs, but now lie only with the Angels and the Emperor.

Nice. Do they continue such an example in their tactics, perhaps? Khan used the tactics of the steppe - do they then use the tactics of the Hive? I don't know what that philosophy would BE, but I'd love to see it laid out.

 

Having gone on to read the combat doctrine section and come back: I really think that adapting Khan's principles to the warfare of hive gangs would be interesting and provide the opportunity for some neat quotes.

 

Also, Khan was a big fan of uniting people toward higher overall goals. An interesting White Scars theme often overlooked in favor of ZOOM. I think you could make good use of it here, if you want.

Organization

Could mention the bloodiness associated with Khan's geneline here. Or in the geneseed section.

 

Oh, and these boys need a battlecry. The more I read IAs, the more I feel like it's the perfect closer. Gives you a chance to sum up the chapter.

 

* * *

 

What're you trying for (it's not that I'm too lazy to read the thread, it's that your ideas might have changed :ph33r:)? It's not bad right now, but there seem to be a few interesting things you could try if you want. I don't want to go through a list if they're going to conflict with your overall goals, though.

 

Drug running and the like sounded awesome. What happened to that?

[Ecritter]

Thanks for stopping by, was beginning to think you'd disappeared for good.

 

 

This is delightfully minimalist, but you could probably pare it down to one paragraph. Something like "Founded in the Ninth Founding from the line of Jaghatai Khan, the Stygian Angels were mentored by the Storm Lords and given one of that Chapter's recruitment worlds as their new home." Then throw in a line about what they've been doing since and we launch right into Home World.

 

Minimalistic is what I'm going for.  I want a unique, but not so much so, chapter of Biker Marines (with a Hell's Angels theme of course).  

 

Shortening this section may be best, but since the IA is so short already, I'm reluctant to do so.

 

 

Nice. Do they continue such an example in their tactics, perhaps? Khan used the tactics of the steppe - do they then use the tactics of the Hive? I don't know what that philosophy would BE, but I'd love to see it laid out. 

Having gone on to read the combat doctrine section and come back: I really think that adapting Khan's principles to the warfare of hive gangs would be interesting and provide the opportunity for some neat quotes.

Also, Khan was a big fan of uniting people toward higher overall goals. An interesting White Scars theme often overlooked in favor of ZOOM. I think you could make good use of it here, if you want.

 

I was thinking of adding some beliefs that may lean in that direction.  Kinda stuff like this:

 

- New marines receive a new name when they become full SMs.  Leaving behind their old names and old lives to be born anew.  Names kinda like Toe Cutter, Night Rider, etc.

 

- Push the we are brothers aspect of the chapter, even as far as seeing themselves as separate from other chapters.

 

Thoughts on this?

 

 

Could mention the bloodiness associated with Khan's geneline here. Or in the geneseed section.

Oh, and these boys need a battlecry. The more I read IAs, the more I feel like it's the perfect closer. Gives you a chance to sum up the chapter.

 

I thought I'd pretty much covered the bloodiness with the combat doctrine.  Brutal, efficient killers etc.

 

Can't have a battlecry ... they don't speak at all in combat.

 

 

What're you trying for (it's not that I'm too lazy to read the thread, it's that your ideas might have changed :ph33r:)? It's not bad right now, but there seem to be a few interesting things you could try if you want. I don't want to go through a list if they're going to conflict with your overall goals, though.

 

I'll repost the list from early on in the discussion for you.

 

- Silent Killers, silent to those outside the chapter .. no battle cries, etc.
- Merciless killers, anything to reach their goal .. the Emperor's goal
- Brutally efficient, Cold hearted, anyone or anything between them and their target is a target
- Overwhelming force of arms, open with orbital bombardment, then drop pods, always on the attack
- Heavy Biker squad numbers, no Devs and very few Tanks

 

 

Drug running and the like sounded awesome. What happened to that?

 

Drug running was never part of my plan.  It was a suggestion from CJJ.

 

*****************************************************

 

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the IA.  I don't want them to be "oh we're special" marines, I'm perfectly happy with them being different, but not stand out different.

 

I think I'll add the bit about beliefs and names .... today or tomorrow.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Ecritter

[Ecritter]

"We are Brothers" section added to Beliefs.