WIP: The Thousand Mercies

[Firepower]

Marines of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Companies

Icon- See the three options below. Not sure which to go with yet.

-ORIGINS-

“To the coward, offer pity by the blade. To the weak of heart, offer sympathy by the bolter. To the traitor, offer the solace of oblivion. To the inhuman of the galaxy, offer an end to the ignorance of their evil. To the faithful dead, offer a salute, and a whispered prayer that we might meet them at the side of the Golden Throne.” ~ excerpt from the Open Pages of the Clementia Angelus

A Dark Angels successor of the 10th founding, the Thousand Mercies’ initiation into the Unforgiven was entrusted to a coterie led by Master Augustine of the Dark Angels 3rd Company. Though as capable a warrior as was to be expected of a member of the Inner Circle, it was Augustine’s wisdom and special intuitions that saw him awarded such a prestigious opportunity. Although a bleak and aloof soul, even by the standards of the Angels, Augustine was blessed with an intuitive insight into the hearts and minds of others which bordered on the supernatural. Such an instinct was considered invaluable for measuring a new fraternity of the Unforgiven, and upon his appointment as Grand Master of the new Chapter, the highest echelons of the Inner Circle welcomed Augustine to their ranks with the burden of greater, darker truths.

The new Grand Master would lead the fledgling Chapter for nearly one hundred and fifty years, guiding it on the arduous path set for all the Unforgiven. The natural aptitude that earned Augustine’s original appointment and hard earned experience were essential tools for choosing which brothers were capable of bearing the guilt of the first legion’s hidden past. But even with the most careful selections of Inner Circle initiates, the first generations of the Chapter were still just beginning to grow into their fated role, and most of the veterans that left the Angels with Augustine were dead. And so the Grand Master set himself to the task of leaving a legacy in writing, a foundation for successors that would provide a link to their heritage, an understanding of their mission, and what he could transmit of his own wisdom.

Augustine wrote several dozen tomes on all manner of subjects. He scribed treatises on doctrines of war, the meaning of service to the Throne, lessons on the reading of men’s hearts, and among the encrypted and restricted texts, secret truths and histories to tie his successors to their heritage. As his collection expanded, the Grand Master grew curious, perplexed, and ultimately obsessed with a single subject: the reason behind the Fallen, the flaw that grew into heinous treason. Instinct, experience, secrets, meditation and prayer were all bent to the task. In the answer Augustine hoped to find an invaluable truth, an unimagined tool for the Interrogator Chaplains and a new shield against corruption. His conclusions would develop into his opus, and the future foundation of the Chapter’s beliefs, the Clementia Angelus.

The flaw, Augustine concluded, was something inherent within every human soul, even after ascension to the post-human ranks of the Astartes. It was something that could never be eradicated, something that would remain as even the tiniest kernel regardless of one’s discipline and faith. Every soul was forever vulnerable to corruption, and therefore every soul was irrevocably impure. The 'revelation of nascent treachery,' as Augustine came to call it, created a whole new sort of anguish over the Chapter's guilt by association.

By fault of the Dark Angel’s history, Augustine came to believe that the Unforgiven were twice damned, and all the more vulnerable for it. The nascent treachery born into every soul was compounded by the sin born by legacy into every son of the Lion. Worse, it was only when a brother rose through the ranks that he would even become aware of the treachery that left such a weakness in the armor around his heart. Even though Augustine came to lead the new Chapter in the hunt for the Fallen with an attitude of almost desperate urgency, the inescapable truth was that a conclusion was nowhere in sight.

The first Grand Master’s solution was to create traditions of nearly masochistic rituals in self-deprivation, meditation, and asceticism. Such a path would (hopefully) guard against the greater potential for corruption invited by the blessed ignorance of the uninitiated, while the privy few of the highest echelons led the Chapter’s campaign to expunge the sins of the past with all the fanatical desperation of their predecessor. Augustine’s last revelation is written as the preamble to the Open Pages, the portion of the Clementia Angelus available to all ranks of the Chapter, and from those final words of wisdom his brothers would take their namesake.

“As life is an existence of pain, of warring against blasphemies and treacheries both real and potential, of suffering the righteous, endless struggle for purity, the singular mercy in life is death. And we are death incarnate.”

[Ecritter]

Well considering I just posted a Chapter idea with similar "kill em all" ideas ... I can see it. :p

 

Not sure how well that fits the Knightly theme though.

 

Personally I stay away from DA successors, just because of the Fallen issue.  UMs offer so much more freedom of design.

[Messor]

The hardest sell for me will be the name, but I'll probably get over it. The idea of the knightly, semi-chivalric sadist(mass murderers, whatever you like) is an interesting one. Are the Broken Arrows through?

[Firepower]

Nope. In fact I am waiting on a new primer to be shipped, which may be a while. That was a real hang up in getting them off the ground. That, and a stubborn/broken airbrush. Fixed that already though. :P

 

But I decided to see how this IA pans out, largely because I liked the irony of the chapter when the idea first came to me :D

 

Some writing will also help distract me from fantasizing about picking up Tau for a fifth time, which is a nice bonus :P

[Messor]

....succumb. Dooo eeeet! (Sorry, can't help it )

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I personally like the idea of them being DA successors. I looking forward to seeing how this chapter develops.

 

Madwolf

[Firepower]

OK, something of a first draft for review. I stopped short by a couple of paragraphs, because I was concerned with what you lot might have to say of the direction it's being taken, and likely results.

-ORIGINS-

A thousand souls offering a singular mercy. We are death. Embrace us, and be saved.

A Dark Angels successor of the 10th founding, the Thousand Mercies were tutored under the leadership of Captain Augustine of the Angels’ Inner Circle and a coterie of his closest brothers. A charismatic if unorthodox warrior scholar, Augustine and his chosen brothers were regarded almost as a sect (or to a few, cult) in themselves even before being granted the honor of initiating a newborn successor Chapter- an honor not granted by unanimous consent of the Chapter’s highest echelons. Even the Captain’s joining of the Inner Circle was a matter of some contention, a decision made in light of his dedicated service and talents rather than his ‘divergent’ philosophies.

Augustine’s philosophy put forward the notion that all life, human and inhuman alike, was created impure by its propensity for corruption. Some, such as the xenos that clawed at or surreptitiously slithered into the Imperium, were corrupted at birth by their very nature. Mankind was of course lauded the ideal, but the history of the Imperium and the Angels’ themselves spoke volumes of the specie’s capacity for weakness and spiritual vulnerability. A life could be committed to the Emperor’s benevolence, but it was only in death that any life’s final value could be weighed. Those blessed in deed and pure in soul would go to join His side at the Golden Throne in bliss, while those cursed by their actions (or inactions) would be granted oblivion and freedom from their wretched, pitiable lives. The truly damned- the beings of the Warp that sought purchase in the minds of the weak- were the only creatures in all of existence beyond salvation. They are, after all, beyond the embrace of death, cursed with an eternal unlife of unforgivable sin.

When granted leadership of a newborn brotherhood of the Unforgiven, the teachings of Augustine and his sect became the backbone of the Chapter’s philosophy. He wrote his final opus in the forty years of service as the Chapter’s Master, before his death at the end of an enemy artillery strike. The tome’s preamble forged the final pieces of the fledgling Chapter’s identity.

“A thousand of His faithful servants, a fraternity that offers the kind embraces of death and absolution. Our mission is one of redemption, not just for ourselves and our kin, but for all. To the coward, we offer pity by the blade. To the weak, we offer understanding by the bolter. To the traitor, we offer the freedom of oblivion. To the inhuman, we grant a reprieve from a life of sorrowful impurity. To the fallen pure, we offer a salute, and a whispered prayer that we might meet them at the side of the Golden Throne. Death is the ultimate mercy, and we are Death incarnate.”

Over the centuries, the Mercies would find themselves gradually estranged from their parent Chapter. Though the divergent cosmology of the Chapter was even further from the more orthodox philosophies of the Unforgiven than when Augustine was a Captain of the Angels, it was still tenuously considered acceptable. The Mercies’ demeanor and methods of war were likewise off-putting, but tolerated. It was their approach to the Fallen that would create a permanent schism between them and the Dark Angels. Given their unique understanding as to the nature of sin and redemption, the Chapter became unconcerned with the customary interrogation of their forlorn brothers. A final repentance is considered a simple apology at best by the Mercies, and so Fallen are simply killed on sight, and offered a sorrowful prayer that nothingness might suffice in place of the eternal bliss denied them by their unforgivable sin.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So yeah, obviously the issue arising at the end is just how the Dark Angels and the Unforgiven as a whole might react to summary executions of the Fallen. I think I'll have to go combing through the latest DA dex as a sort of reference material at any rate.

I may also have to put some work into explaining why a slightly unpopular fellow like Augustine would be given leadership of a new Chapter.

Criticisms, commentary, and literary disembowelment welcome...if it's justifiable.

[Conn Eremon]

I'm not the best when it comes to citing sources, so take this as you will. But I am sure there have been descriptions of similar treatment to the Fallen by successor Chapters, with no mention of it causing estrangement. Perhaps the schism could center around their attitude towards the Fallen, rather than their treatment. Sounds like your Chapter executes them on the spot as an act of kindness rather than a summary execution. In essence, it sounds like the Mercies kill them out of forgiveness, which the other Unforgiven might not be okay with.

[Firepower]

After a hurried read through the dex (granted not an end all source of information but a good start) I couldn't find a suggestion that any of the successors kill Fallen outright.  I did however learn that Augustine would be called Master, not Captain.  Also, though he is/was Master of the 3rd Company, he has to be inducted into the 1st Company like everyone else to become a member of the Inner Circle.  I imagine that it is totally possible for Masters of other companies to have been members of the 1st and the Inner Circles previously, but I didn't spot a solid confirmation one way or the other.

 

I'll have to keep snooping through what sources I can scrounge up for basic DA info while I ponder on the IA.  Any suggestions for good sources?

 

Anyway, your interpretation is pretty close, Cormac.  It's not so much that the Mercies forgive the Fallen, but rather that they see death as the only real determination of their damnation or forgiveness (rather than a confession and repentance), and they wish them luck on their ultimate judgment.

[rocketsredbear]

I'm not the best when it comes to citing sources, so take this as you will. But I am sure there have been descriptions of similar treatment to the Fallen by successor Chapters, with no mention of it causing estrangement. Perhaps the schism could center around their attitude towards the Fallen, rather than their treatment. Sounds like your Chapter executes them on the spot as an act of kindness rather than a summary execution. In essence, it sounds like the Mercies kill them out of forgiveness, which the other Unforgiven might not be okay with.

I believe this is what you are looking for. :)

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Angels_of_Absolution#.UWuapuko4b0

[Lysimachus]

Perhaps part of the cause of the schism could even be them suggesting to other Unforgiven that it isn't their place either to determine a judgement on the Fallen? I could see that immediately putting them 'in the doghouse' as far as the DA are concerned.

[Captain Semper]

I’m gonna comment on the IA on the assumption that those guys ARE actually DA Successors although I realise you’re still in two minds about it. Also I’ll comment from my own personal take of what DAs are – a lot of my brothers in the Rock will take a less, how can I put this… harsh view. I think DAs are dark – with no redeeming features and hence difficult to like. The only way to justify their actions is to be one of them and see things 100% their way – otherwise their moral standing (even by 40k standards) is in question.

So, having said that, here we go:

-Disposition-

Uncaring brutality to the point of risking (or even receiving) official censure. Very much a 'Kill them all and let the Emperor sort them out' mentality, in a very literal sense due to a pseudo-fanatical religious bent. Civilians are a non-issue and expendable if they get in the way of the job, and allies are equally expendable when not absolutely required for completion of the mission. The virtuous dead go to stand beside the Emperor for eternity, and the less than virtuous dead are..well, dead, and no longer burdened by their unholy nature. Hence the name of the Chapter- they believe themselves to be doing a favor to anyone and anything they kill, one way or another.

OK, first of all, most marine Chapters would not give a damn about civilian lives (except those with the wrong shade of green of course!). So that in itself will not raise many brows in the administratum – much less warrant censure.

IF they were to provoke official censure (for whatever reason), it would be sloppy work for DAs and certainly not to be repeated – let alone be a trait. These guys are supposed to be in a 10k year cover-up operation – you’d think keeping up appearances would be their thing. And it is. Drawing attention to your actions is never a good thing and drawing attention on brutality? DAs are not Fleash Tearers or Knights of Blood or even BAs for that matter… Everything is done to meet a particular end. I’d say self-restraint should be the dominant characteristic of a DA Successor – not unrestraint violence. The best way, in my opinion, to view DAs is not so much a military formation (yeah, you read correctly) but something more akin to a Cold War era (or even today era) secret service agency of a super power nation. So their modus operandi would be secrecy, detective work and overt violence when it’s needed. Given that overt violence is also expected of them (being Space Marines an’ all) it comes in handy.

Also, a religious bent? Hmm… DAs are calculating and pragmatic bunch – they do not follow higher ideals – in fact their redemption in the eyes of the Emperor is the only ideal they have and the highest service they can offer! They (like almost all other Space Marines) are not following Imperial Creed nor do they have any allegiance to the Ecclesiarchy. The Emperor is the only one that knows their secret outside the Inner Circle (despite Dark Vengeance fluff where everyone and their aunt knows). The DAs allegiance is to the Emperor alone – not the Imperium in general and certainly not the High Lords. Their only concern is to atone themselves in the eyes of the Emperor and observing the duties assigned to them by the Imperium is what it takes in order to be allowed to continue the Hunt without raising questions.

Very knightly in ritual, order, and aesthetics. They perceive themselves as the benevolent Arthurian mythical sort of knights, even though they're much closer to the genocidal, pitiless zealot sort in the eyes of outsiders. I just really like the image of one speaking in a kind, soft voice and wholeheartedly promising solace and peace as they ram a sword into someone. Many would be utterly confused by outsiders, enemies and outraged friendlies alike, when they reject or resist the mercy they bring.

You know what I see there? Another version of Black Templars. They follow a higher ideal, they are self-righteous and they do not hate themselves – i.e. do not carry any guilt...

I personally oppose the Knightly theme for the DAs as it inevitably entails a measure of nobility that I do not think DAs deserve nor do they assign it to themselves. They are no nobler than CIA or KGB – or, better yet, the Spanish Inquisition: a secretive and ultimately self-serving organization where the “cause justifies the means” credo takes away all the potential for nobility… (I’m talking 40k here NOT 30k – DAs were a different story back then).

Gene-seed-

Currently torn between Dark Angels and Imperial Fists...maybe Ultramarines. As Dark Angel successors, the mentality may develop as an unorthodox approach to dealing with the fallen, which eventually extends to their view of the galaxy as a whole. Meaning that they don't feel the Fallen deserve a chance at redemption (and are merely hunted and killed), and over time this distorts into the disposition mentioned previously.

The chance for redemption is not for the Fallen but for the DAs. Making a Fallen repent is a symbolic chance that the DAs were split on a misconception or a misunderstanding – not because of some deeply rooted heretic belief. So making a Fallen repent, the DAs come a step closer to their own redemption – that’s why they go into the trouble of effectively arresting the Fallen instead of killing them on the spot – as other Space Marines would do to their (sworn) enemies. So the Inner Circle would not (in my opinion) tolerate such deviancy among the ranks of the Unforgiven. Even Angels of Redemption that do not share the guilt, still abide with this rule…

By the way, I’d say no Primogenitor Chapter from the ones mentioned above really caters for unrestraint brutality… Are you sure you don’t want to go down the BAs way? You know, play up the Vampire theme that includes nobility (although perverse) and blood lust and superiority complex (“I give you life eternal” and such)? Just a thought…

As Imperial Fist successors, their disposition would again be an extreme outgrowth of the Primogenitor's dispositions and philosophy. Basically another ruthless Chapter akin to the Black Templars. Not too thrilled about that basic concept, but keeping them on the IF on the potential list because they're a pseudo tabula rosa, and you can get away with a lot.

As I said above they can certainly fit better in the Imperial Fist context – however the blood lust thing is a bit off in my opinion… It’s like Black Templars becoming Blood Templars…

Ultramarines...the total tabula rosa. There are so many successors and the Ultramarines are so lacking in a true personality (sorry if you disagree) that you can bend successors however you like with a bit of work.

The Ultras themselves ooze with personality – there are many unexplored stemming from them Chapters (if that’s what you mean) but if you are to link your guys to an existing gene-seed you’d better look first for the connection rather than the deviancy… Alternatively you can say “Uknown Origin” – not a favorite way of doing things, but it might be the best solution at times…

Leaning mostly towards Dark Angels, but not sure if the idea of their unusual approach to the Fallen is doable or not.

As I said, the Fallen are too precious to kill without interrogation or a chance to repent – the DAs redemption is at stake…

-ORIGINS-

A thousand souls offering a singular mercy. We are death. Embrace us, and be saved.

A Dark Angels successor of the 10th founding, the Thousand Mercies were tutored under the leadership of Captain Augustine of the Angels’ Inner Circle and a coterie of his closest brothers. A charismatic if unorthodox warrior scholar, Augustine and his chosen brothers were regarded almost as a sect (or to a few, cult) in themselves even before being granted the honor of initiating a newborn successor Chapter- an honor not granted by unanimous consent of the Chapter’s highest echelons. Even the Captain’s joining of the Inner Circle was a matter of some contention, a decision made in light of his dedicated service and talents rather than his ‘divergent’ philosophies.

OK, before we go into the big mix-up that is Masters and Grand Masters, the Chapter Master is MOST certainly a Grand Master. Also keep in mind that the Inner Circle spans across all Unforgiven so deviancies are not easy to get away with… In a sense the DAs are still a Legion and all Unforgiven are controlled by the Inner Circle’s iron grip. Unorthodox scholar? Hmmm… difficult to justify. The Inner Circle is not known to take chances with appointing its members – and they do undergo the scrutiny of Librarians (Ezekiel at current timeline) so having a deviant IC member is borderline contradicting existing fluff.

When you say dedicated service what do you mean? Killing lots and lots of Orks won’t cut it. He may be 350 years old but still not a member of the Inner Circle. If he is not deemed worthy he may never make it. Combat prowess is a given – but ability to deal with the collective guilt is what will grand passage to the higher echelons of the Chapter. And no one is willing to take chances with it just because the candidate may be good at killing xenos or heretics… If you make it to the Inner Circle you are one of us (if you know what I mean )

Divergent philosophies might be tolerated (see Angels of Redemption) as long as the procedures regarding the Fallen and the Hunt are observed… So Grand Master Augustine may or may not feel the guilt – but he would not embark on an extermination Crusade without the consent of the Inner Circle – and of course such a consent would never be given (I don’t think). This is like actively depriving the DAs the chance of redemption. Again I suggest you try and find what connects your Chapter to DAs before you work out deviancies.

So far you have written it as an outsider who tries to make it original. Try and look it from the DAs perspective. There are some immovable traits. Embrace them and let them be. Then build on them. You can say for example that the Chapter Master is so fanatical to the Hunt of the Fallen that has embarrassed the DAs in more than one occasion (by leaving loose ends for example) but they tolerate him because he delivers… Then you have to balance the “sloppiness” of your Chapter’s modus operandi with a positive attribute such as capturing a high number of Fallen or (better yet) a fairly significant Fallen – for whom you get to right background too!

Augustine’s philosophy put forward the notion that all life, human and inhuman alike, was created impure by its propensity for corruption. Some, such as the xenos that clawed at or surreptitiously slithered into the Imperium, were corrupted at birth by their very nature. Mankind was of course lauded the ideal, but the history of the Imperium and the Angels’ themselves spoke volumes of the specie’s capacity for weakness and spiritual vulnerability. A life could be committed to the Emperor’s benevolence, but it was only in death that any life’s final value could be weighed. Those blessed in deed and pure in soul would go to join His side at the Golden Throne in bliss, while those cursed by their actions (or inactions) would be granted oblivion and freedom from their wretched, pitiable lives. The truly damned- the beings of the Warp that sought purchase in the minds of the weak- were the only creatures in all of existence beyond salvation. They are, after all, beyond the embrace of death, cursed with an eternal unlife of unforgivable sin.

Judge Death anyone?

I cannot see anything that says Dark Angels here… It is a philosophy of a fanatic – fine, but how is this Dark Angely? I mean this same description/philosophy could apply to a Chapter of any descent – especially those that do NOT have an overarching mission to abide to and have to invent one of their own. Better yet, this could match a radical Inquisitor. Seriously – have you considered going down that way? Radical Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor, commandeering a SoB Order Minoris or a regiment of IG and embarking on a campaign of cleansing the galaxy of, ermm... everything? It fits – I’m serious.

Do some reverse engineering here. Instead of starting with the assumption that they are DAs (or IFs or UMs) and try to fit a special trait to them, start with the basic trait – the perverse ideology that all life is corrupt and hence death is salvation (seriously you must have been influenced by Judge Death). Then go and say, which agency in the imperium would be most likely to come up with it and then pursue it? DAs? I don’t think so. Imperial Guard? Maybe a rogue Colonel who’s gone ultra-religious and under the influence of the Ecclesiarchy or Chaos? Maybe. Radical Inquisitors? Spot on!

When granted leadership of a newborn brotherhood of the Unforgiven, the teachings of Augustine and his sect became the backbone of the Chapter’s philosophy. He wrote his final opus in the forty years of service as the Chapter’s Master, before his death at the end of an enemy artillery strike. The tome’s preamble forged the final pieces of the fledgling Chapter’s identity.

“A thousand of His faithful servants, a fraternity that offers the kind embraces of death and absolution. Our mission is one of redemption, not just for ourselves and our kin, but for all. To the coward, we offer pity by the blade. To the weak, we offer understanding by the bolter. To the traitor, we offer the freedom of oblivion. To the inhuman, we grant a reprieve from a life of sorrowful impurity. To the fallen pure, we offer a salute, and a whispered prayer that we might meet them at the side of the Golden Throne. Death is the ultimate mercy, and we are Death incarnate.”

Over the centuries, the Mercies would find themselves gradually estranged from their parent Chapter. Though the divergent cosmology of the Chapter was even further from the more orthodox philosophies of the Unforgiven than when Augustine was a Captain of the Angels, it was still tenuously considered acceptable. The Mercies’ demeanor and methods of war were likewise off-putting, but tolerated. It was their approach to the Fallen that would create a permanent schism between them and the Dark Angels. Given their unique understanding as to the nature of sin and redemption, the Chapter became unconcerned with the customary interrogation of their forlorn brothers. A final repentance is considered a simple apology at best by the Mercies, and so Fallen are simply killed on sight, and offered a sorrowful prayer that nothingness might suffice in place of the eternal bliss denied them by their unforgivable sin.

My main objection, as mentioned previously, is the deviance of an Unforgiven Chapter from the proper attitude vs. the Fallen. Again the DAs do not hunt the Fallen to save them – they hunt the Fallen to save themselves. If they (the Fallen) are relegated to just another flavor of Chaos Marine (which many aren’t) this means that the Hunt for the Fallen has no meaning. If the Fallen must be executed on sight in a similar fashion as a Word Bearer say, then what is it that makes him special to a DA Successor? And if they are not important why bother making your Chapter a DA Succesor? DAs without the Fallen (and without the guilt) are not DAs at all... They are just another generic Chapter that goes ahead and kills whoever’s looks they don’t like…

Too harsh? or should I say too horse?

[Firepower]

You have given me a lot to think about. I hate thinking! Grrrr!

Actually, harsh is good.

First thing's first. I have no idea what Judge Death is I actually built this idea around a 40k perversion of original sin. I thought the Master's name would be something of a giveaway there. Also, it's not that everything is born corrupt..well, everything not human is born corrupt. But rather it's that people are born with the capability for corruption, and so they are impure on some fundamental level.

On the Fallen, I always saw it as both: they are doing it to save themselves as well as the Fallen. I drew that conclusion from the Interrogations, where the Angels go to great, harsh lengths to save the soul of the captured Fallen. I didn't think they did that just for their own sake, and if they do...harsh, very harsh man.

It seems to me that if the confessions and repentance are for the Dark Angels' sake and not the Fallen, then killing them outright would hardly be of any difference, in the pragmatic sense.

I looked to DA because of a few reasons: One, the warrior monk theme is more inviting to a revelation by spiritual reflection like Augustine's, so long as it stays within tolerance of the Chapter's ideals of course- Guardians of the Covenent, for example. Second, the history of the Chapter gives a more solid understanding of the nature of mankind's potential for corruption, and that works as a platform for the philosophy. Third, a mind set which obsesses over the nature and capacity for redemption also invites this sort of philosophical bent.

So, as I see it right now, I have two main problems to work out, which can really be done with one editing- the only reason that Augustine and his crew are considered odd ducks and unnerving by the Angels is because I say they are. In truth, I don't think that really has to be the case at all, and I mostly did it for the sake of cool-factor. That's what first drafts are for, after all- throw as much cool stuff as you can think of in, then riddle it with bullet holes til just a few are left standing

Anyway, his philosophy and the philosophy of the Chapter are not fundamentally opposed, but I do need to link them up better. What I need to do is tone it down just a smidge, and work on writing how such a philosophy develops out of the mind of a Dark Angel, which I think I've done somewhat with the three reasons mentioned a couple of paragraphs back. By that I mean I need to rework and present it as something that would grow out of a mind dedicated to the hunt of the Fallen, rather than write it as a philosophy made in a bubble and then applied to a Chapter that is concerned with the Fallen.

One path I am considering is to make the philosophy more introverted and less extroverted. By that I mean focusing on how the Mercies apply the philosophy to themselves- if everything is born with the capability for corruption, the goal of all mankind should be to quash and free themselves of that fundamental impurity. Service to the Emperor, reflections, meditation, and probably some more extreme measures all employed towards striving for a state of incorruptibility. But it is only in death that they will ever be ultimately judged, and granted merciful freedom from the spiritual frailty of mortality.

A bent like that would probably result in the same outward view of the galaxy, but change their view of the Fallen towards more orthodox Unforgiven practices- Interrogator Chaplains, a brooding obsession with their own spiritual purity, and full cooperation and collusion with the Unforgiven as other successors do. In light of that, the unorthodox philosophy applied to things outside the Chapter becomes more of a quirky idiosyncrasy. Or it will, once I do the proper editing.

Also, the aesthetic of the Dark Angels (which is somewhat garbled over the years) being a mix between monks and knights had me leaning towards knights, but considering that everything is hinged on the philosophical writings of a warrior scholar, the monkish theme seems far more appropriate.

[Firepower]

Updated the opening post with the edited Origins section.  I've got something to bite down on, so give it a read and do your worst.  ;)

[berzerkermike84]

robes are awesome. 

[Ecritter]

Have you considered a broken sword or axe for the symbol?

[Firepower]

Currently debating on these three potential Chapter Icons-

I feel like I've seen the first one before, which would be awkward. :P The original icon still in the OP just doesn't seem angely...or good.

[Firepower]

Drastic rewrite of the Origins.  It feels a lot more Dark Angely now, I think.

 

Some feedback would be most welcome, including on the three possible icons ;)

 

Thanks in advance.

[Conn Eremon]

The three swords or the blood droplet.

[Captain Semper]

 

A Dark Angels successor of the 10th founding, the Thousand Mercies’ initiation into the Unforgiven was entrusted to a coterie led by Master Augustine of the Dark Angels 3rd Company. Though as capable a warrior as was to be expected of a member of the Inner Circle, it was Augustine’s wisdom and special intuitions that saw him awarded such a prestigious opportunity. Although a bleak and aloof soul, even by the standards of the Angels, Augustine was blessed with an intuitive insight into the hearts and minds of others which bordered on the supernatural. Such an instinct was considered invaluable for measuring a new fraternity of the Unforgiven, and upon his appointment as Grand Master of the new Chapter, the highest echelons of the Inner Circle welcomed Augustine to their ranks with the burden of greater, darker truths.

 

Works - so far so good. It would take a special individual to lead an Unforgiven Chapter and your approach is very good I think. Instead of going for the super-warrior or the ultra-fanatical (Asmodai style) you opted for a more esoteric approach. I think this bit is well made. Personally I always view DA commanders as leaders and strategists (much like the Lion was) first and foremost and rather than the ultimate warriors leading from the front (a stark contrast to many other Chapters).

The new Grand Master would lead the fledgling Chapter for nearly one hundred and fifty years, guiding it on the arduous path set for all the Unforgiven. The natural aptitude that earned Augustine’s original appointment and hard earned experience were essential tools for choosing which brothers were capable of bearing the guilt of the first legion’s hidden past. But even with the most careful selections of Inner Circle initiates, the first generations of the Chapter were still just beginning to grow into their fated role, and most of the veterans that left the Angels with Augustine were dead. And so the Grand Master set himself to the task of leaving a legacy in writing, a foundation for successors that would provide a link to their heritage, an understanding of their mission, and what he could transmit of his own wisdom.

 

Ok, I see you’re going down the scholar route –and that’s fine. Keep in mind though that the Librarium is also involved in the selection of the Inner Circle members and also like to keep records and such. Nowadays everybody think of Librarians as solely the Chapter’s psychic weapons and forget their other duties which is to codify the Chapter’s history, keep archives of secrets and are general guardians of knowledge – and more so for the Unforgiven Chapters. Maybe you want to work out a “special relation” with the Librarium – although not a psyker himself, Augustine could have appointed a more involving role to the Chapter’s Librarium and Librarians could be more prominent in this Chapter compared to other Unforgiven…  It’s just a thought in order to underline to spiritual nature of the Chapter – instead of a one-man show. That way Augustine will be the spiritual leade of the Chapter as the (in-Chapter) institutions he set in place will outlive him.

Augustine wrote several dozen tomes on all manner of subjects. He scribed treatises on doctrines of war, the meaning of service to the Throne, lessons on the reading of men’s hearts, and among the encrypted and restricted texts, secret truths and histories to tie his successors to their heritage. As his collection expanded, the Grand Master grew curious, perplexed, and ultimately obsessed with a single subject: the reason behind the Fallen, the flaw that grew into heinous treason. Instinct, experience, secrets, meditation and prayer were all bent to the task.  In the answer Augustine hoped to find an invaluable truth, an unimagined tool for the Interrogator Chaplains and a new shield against corruption. His conclusions would develop into his opus, and the future foundation of the Chapter’s beliefs, the Clementia Angelus.

 

Yes! Clementia Angelus! Are you sure you don’t want to go the extra step and make him a Librarian? I know, there is no precedent of Librarians taking over Unfogiven Chapters – but that’s partially the positives of making a DIY Chapter – a novelty that is otherwise well integrated in the Unforgiven mythos. You can even say that, him being a psyker, he was personally responsible to build up the new cast of DW Knights and Inner Circle of the Mercies in (maybe?) an accelerated fashion… You may even want to invent a reason as to why the Inner Circle wanted such an accelerated build-up!  Again these are just random ideas that you could take inspiration from and disregard them completely! :D Bottom line is your Chapter has so much potential…

The flaw, Augustine concluded, was something inherent within every human soul, even after ascension to the post-human ranks of the Astartes. It was something that could never be eradicated, something that would remain as even the tiniest kernel regardless of one’s discipline and faith. Every soul was forever vulnerable to corruption, and therefore every soul was irrevocably impure.  The 'revelation of nascent treachery,' as Augustine came to call it, created a whole new sort of anguish over the Chapter's guilt by association.

 

OK, this is the tricky bit. The fact that Augustine is too much of a thinker might mean that he could potentially clash with the mainstream views of the Inner Circle on the matter of the Fall. I do not think you should allow this to happen… Somewhere you must add that he still strongly supports the practices of the DAs as regards the Hunt of the Fallen… Or that his studies reinforced his view that the Hunt should go on – or even intensify as to study the souls of the Fallen in even more depth – (making him a psyker could tie well with this attitude).

By fault of the Dark Angel’s history, Augustine came to believe that the Unforgiven were twice damned, and all the more vulnerable for it. The nascent treachery born into every soul was compounded by the sin born by legacy into every son of the Lion. Worse, it was only when a brother rose through the ranks that he would even become aware of the treachery that left such a weakness in the armor around his heart. Even though Augustine came to lead the new Chapter in the hunt for the Fallen with an attitude of almost desperate urgency, the inescapable truth was that a conclusion was nowhere in sight.

 

 

Fantastic! Add the sense of urgency and desperation in the Hunt. However if he loses faith in the ultimate redemption of the DAs then he has fallen to Chaos. Chaos operates under the dictum that everything is futile and ultimately humanity is condemned by its very nature. If Augustine reaches the same conclusion – i.e. the very nature of humanity (and DAs in particular) is flawed by its very nature, BANG! You got a Chaos Marine that has nothing to hope for or indeed to fight for… Dangerous path there…  Really, do keep an eye on this.

The first Grand Master’s solution was to create traditions of nearly masochistic rituals in self-deprivation, meditation, and asceticism. Such a path would (hopefully) guard against the greater potential for corruption invited by the blessed ignorance of the uninitiated, while the privy few of the highest echelons led the Chapter’s campaign to expunge the sins of the past with all the fanatical desperation of their predecessor.  Augustine’s last revelation is written as the preamble to the Open Pages, the portion of the Clementia Angelus available to all ranks of the Chapter, and from those final words of wisdom his brothers would take their namesake.

 

As I said above the Clementia Angelus looks like a good idea to me. Having an extra level of asceticism is also fine as long Augustine’s conviction of redemption is intact. Otherwise it could be viewed as rituals in preparation of a Chapter to Fall. Be mindful of that – if that’s what you want to do fine but if not you want to make a true Unforgiven Chapter you must at some point put Augustine firmly to the undoubting camp.

 

 

 

Thought of the day:

 

+Blessed is the mind too small to doubt+

[Firepower]

You are right that the revelation of Nascent Treachery (not sure if I should make it into a proper noun) does look like a swan dive into hopelessness, meaning a head long rush towards corruption, which would certainly be ironic if nothing else.

 

The reasoning behind its success rather than its failure is something I intend to throw into the soon coming Beliefs section of the IA, rather than making the Origins any longer.  The skeletal framework is redemption (and consequentially mercy) in death, for the individual, the Chapter, the Unforgiven and humanity itself.

 

Working factors include

1- Damnation is considered a helluva lot more painful (and lasting) than the Nascent Treachery is.  

2- Impermanence is a law of reality, and so death of anything, including the Imperium itself, is nothing to fear.  It is as much a non-issue as the laws of physics.

3a- The issue then, is how something dies. 

3b- If something or someone dies after a pious and loyal existence, the death is a mercy, in that the struggle for purity has ended, and they have won that struggle.  In death the faithful find redemption.

3c- If something or someone dies after an impious or treacherous existence, the death is a small mercy, in that they are saved from themselves, but not from the consequences of their actions (particularly applicable to traitors or other pawns of Chaos).  In death, the traitor finds mercy from himself.

3d- Xenos are killed as a mercy, because nothing should be forced to live a life without possibility of redemption.

3e- There can be no mercy for deamonkind, as there is no way for them to truly die. They are the only things beyond mercy.

 

So, 3b is really the one that inspires continued loyalty rather than a downward spiral into despair and hopelessness.  Redemption is the over arching goal of all the Unforgiven.  So if redemption is found in death after a pious existence, it can be for the individual, for a Chapter, for the Unforgiven, or humanity itself.  So even if the hunt for the Fallen is incomplete by the time the Unforgiven die out, as long as the Unforgiven did everything they could (everything) then they will find the redemption they crave.  The real trick is to get it across as solid without creating a whole bunch of metaphysical or cosmological mumbo jumbo about life after death and what not, barring maybe sparse references to standing beside the Golden Throne in death

 

I think this sort of logic could lead to a level of fanaticism and/or desperation that gets them in trouble, likely with outsiders but maybe even with the Unforgiven themselves, if the Mercies attract too much attention.  Or the Dark Angels may come to use the Mercies as a sledgehammer in the hunt for the Fallen, or maybe even assign them the occasional role of scapegoat.  I.e. the Angels send in a small force to hunt a Fallen while the Mercies show up en masse and make a spectacle of themselves with their belligerence, fanaticism, disregard for allies' lives, what-have-you, and keep prying eyes away from the Angels' strike force.

[Messor]

The following comes with a packet of salt for sprinkling. I'm not a big fan of the DA(For the same incomprehensible reason I was biased against the Red Ranger as a kid), and my understanding of their fluff is lacking, but what you've got certainly looks solid enough to stand on.

I like the idea. Like I knew it would, the name of the Thousand Mercies has grown on me, and an "adaptation" of original sin is very interesting. The summary of the problem I see is in the term "religious bent". I don't know how much you dialed it back from the original idea, but it's still quite prevalent and I just have a hard time applying this to marines that aren't [those rare] adherents to the Imperial Creed. I think the your breakdown of their philosophy makes it clearer:

1- Damnation is considered a helluva lot more painful (and lasting) than the Nascent Treachery is.
Not being adherents to the Creed, what constitutes damnation? This idea(not the nascent treachery itself) suggests belief in higher powers than most Astartes accept, and not just belief but doctrine to back it.
2- Impermanence is a law of reality, and so death of anything, including the Imperium itself, is nothing to fear. It is as much a non-issue as the laws of physics.
Death as nothing to fear is not as harmonious with the "thousand mercies" concept as it sounds, to me OR this needs to be blended more with the points below; if death is nothing to fear than, well, its nothing to fear. If it is a gateway to the damnation of the Fallen/Heretic/Xenos then I'd say its something to be feared. And what of the one that struggles and perseveres in loyalty to the Throne? Your opening quote again suggests a belief in an afterlife that I don't think most marines(I would think DA even less so) espouse, and I don't even know that the Creed accommodates for.
3a- The issue then, is how something dies.
3b- If something or someone dies after a pious and loyal existence, the death is a mercy, in that the struggle for purity has ended, and they have won that struggle. In death the faithful find redemption.
This still feels like the path to Chaos. Where are the limits? If it were better to die while still as pure as possible, with no mortal objective BUT to die pure, it opens the doors to things like razing loyal Imperial cities and worlds in the name of granting them the "mercy" of final success in their struggle. With no qualifier except "die and figure it out", there is nothing left for anything in the galaxy to be alive for.
3c- If something or someone dies after an impious or treacherous existence, the death is a small mercy, in that they are saved from themselves, but not from the consequences of their actions (particularly applicable to traitors or other pawns of Chaos). In death, the traitor finds mercy from himself.So what are the consequences? Is death the consequence, or the mercy? This both affirms and contradicts the previously suggested ideas of damnation/salvation.
3d- Xenos are killed as a mercy, because nothing should be forced to live a life without possibility of redemption.I like this one. It makes me smile.
3e- There can be no mercy for deamonkind, as there is no way for them to truly die. They are the only things beyond mercy.Beyond mercy....but we 'kill' them anyway.

So what I'm left seeing is a Chapter that makes absolutely NO judgments, for the simple reason that there's only one thing coming out of the end of a Boltgun, and that is death. A bullet for you, a bullet for you, EVERYONE GETS A BULLET! Captain Semper, that this lack of 'restraint' isn't helping them, but I DO believe that they can get away with doing what they do as Unforgiven(which may just be my slim knowledge of the DA talking, apply salt as needed). It helps that the Grand Master isn't developing this philosophy until after joining the Inner Circle and having a good long think about the state of things. At that point, if his 'realization' is that Death=Redemption, as long as he's doing it without leaving the loose ends(incurring censure), then I don't think anyone can be any the wiser or do a thing about it.

Suggestions? Eesh, tall order. It might be easier if you put a lot/more emphasis on the fact that since no one else understands what the Mercies do, they really have to stick around to do it, dialing back emphasis on the death=redemption itself.

One final thing that gnawed at the back of my mind: The Open Pages. How much does your everyday DA know? Does an average battle brother know that he is an Unforgiven? If so, I guess your gold, but I feel like that's not the case. The issue being, if there are Open Pages and Closed Pages, you're already telling marines more than they need to know: that there're secrets and they're for me to know and you to find out. If anything(and this could be me reading too much into it), this'd play against the Nascent Treachery thing. If there's a kernel of corruption or potential corruption in every individual, dangling secrets in front of them is the wrong way to keep them suppressed, if that makes sense.

Summary:
I love the scheme(okay, that wasn't anywhere up there, but it merits mention).
I like the idea, but I don't think it's quite working right now, but its getting there(or seems to have progressed well from what I saw of the original).

[Firepower]

The following comes with a packet of salt for sprinkling. I'm not a big fan of the DA(For the same incomprehensible reason I was biased against the Red Ranger as a kid), and my understanding of their fluff is lacking, but what you've got certainly looks solid enough to stand on.

Truth be told, I've never been much of a DA fan either, even when I was a kid pouring over the Angels of Death codex a thousand times. But they seemed the most fitting for this idea, and I'll be a lot happier with fluff if I get to write it myself. Unless of course I botch it, but that's what you people are for

The summary of the problem I see is in the term "religious bent". I don't know how much you dialed it back from the original idea, but it's still quite prevalent and I just have a hard time applying this to marines that aren't [those rare] adherents to the Imperial Creed. I think the your breakdown of their philosophy makes it clearer:

Well, on one hand, being religious is not the same as being adherent to the Imperial Creed. I would argue that the large majority of Space Marines qualify as religious, but in adherence to their own beliefs rather than the Creed. But on the other hand, I am trying to work it into more of a philosophy than a religion, though the differences between the two are vague at best.

1- Damnation is considered a helluva lot more painful (and lasting) than the Nascent Treachery is.

Not being adherents to the Creed, what constitutes damnation? This idea(not the nascent treachery itself) suggests belief in higher powers than most Astartes accept, and not just belief but doctrine to back it.

Again, I don't think you, or rather Astartes, have to affiliate with the Creed to have a concept or notion of damnation. I would argue that Marines know that Chaos is real, and that affiliation with treachery, much less Chaos itself, is qualification enough for 'damnation' regardless of a specific definition or metaphysical construct, but they wouldn't go so far as to accept the Chaos Gods as actually being Gods. I hear the quote 'False Gods' all the time in fluff. It's reasonable that Marines would say 'My faith is true, and I'm good, but your faith is false, and you're damned.' Note that faith doesn't require the belief in a God (as the Creed would require).

At any rate, ask a Black Templar, Ultramarine or Blood Angel if they think Orks, Heretics, Demons or pee-pants cowards qualify as 'damned' and I'm sure you would get a 'Yes,' more often than 'No.'

2- Impermanence is a law of reality, and so death of anything, including the Imperium itself, is nothing to fear. It is as much a non-issue as the laws of physics.

Death as nothing to fear is not as harmonious with the "thousand mercies" concept as it sounds, to me OR this needs to be blended more with the points below; if death is nothing to fear than, well, its nothing to fear. If it is a gateway to the damnation of the Fallen/Heretic/Xenos then I'd say its something to be feared. And what of the one that struggles and perseveres in loyalty to the Throne? Your opening quote again suggests a belief in an afterlife that I don't think most marines(I would think DA even less so) espouse, and I don't even know that the Creed accommodates for.

Death is not a gateway to damnation. The acts in life are the gateway, and death is just what sends the damned off to be fiddled and toyed with by his false gods. Or in other words, you're damned before the Mercies kill you: they're just saving the victim from himself, and from those he would go on to hurt should he be allowed to live. They can't grant the dead mercy from their damnation though because, well, they can only do so much for a guy. Damnation would be a pretty moot concept if dying meant your slate was cleaned.

The 'reward' for a faithful life's end is sort of the stumbling stone here. I am thinking of leaving it out entirely. As in, life is impure, but if you go through it without succumbing, good for you, congratulations. The Astartes are rough enough to go along with a perverse notion of original sin without a promise of a super awesome afterlife for resisting baser temptations.

In terms of allies or civilians dying, it could be met with the same casual disregard. If they were good people, then they died well enough, and should be happy enough with that.

The point is, the notion of mercy may be seen as inapplicable to good people or the Mercies themselves (so long as thye remain faithful). The notion of damnation may serve well enough to keep Mercies on the straight and narrow, so long as it's beaten into their brains with exceptional effort by Chapter lore and such.

3a- The issue then, is how something dies.

3b- If something or someone dies after a pious and loyal existence, the death is a mercy, in that the struggle for purity has ended, and they have won that struggle. In death the faithful find redemption.

This still feels like the path to Chaos. Where are the limits? If it were better to die while still as pure as possible, with no mortal objective BUT to die pure, it opens the doors to things like razing loyal Imperial cities and worlds in the name of granting them the "mercy" of final success in their struggle. With no qualifier except "die and figure it out", there is nothing left for anything in the galaxy to be alive for.

Well, on one hand there is the typical answer of any religion, where suicide is a no no. If you skip the trial of life, you don't get the bonus for ending it pure. The same might be said for murder, if applied to a setting as twisted as grimdark. Meaning that killing someone while they're pure isn't doing them much of a favor, if there is no pay off after death, as I mentioned above. Death may only be a mercy once someone has fallen off the noble path. That disposition would help avoid the 'kill em all, it'll be good for them!' bent.

3c- If something or someone dies after an impious or treacherous existence, the death is a small mercy, in that they are saved from themselves, but not from the consequences of their actions (particularly applicable to traitors or other pawns of Chaos). In death, the traitor finds mercy from himself.So what are the consequences? Is death the consequence, or the mercy? This both affirms and contradicts the previously suggested ideas of damnation/salvation.

Death is the mercy, and potentially a consequence as well. Meaning that by killing a damned person, they are performing an act of mercy: saving him from the greater sins he wold go on to commit, and also saving those victims he would inflict the sins upon, but they wouldn't set out to kill someone if they hadn't gone corrupt (making it a consequence). In addition, Mercies in the Inner Circle and aware of the Fallen may feel that a life spent outside the Emperor's good graces (like the Unforgiven themselves) is a life of pain, and ending the life of a heretic is therefore doing them yet another favor.

So if life is hard enough resisting the Nascent Treachery, and then a person falls to corruption and in turn 1-casts himself out of the Emperor's good graces, 2- threatens the lives of the innocent, and 3- is beyond hope of redemption (like the Fallen), then killing them is in many ways a mercy. It still sucks, because, you know, the eternity of torment at the hands of the Chaos Gods thing...but I suppose if they don't believe in that much, they wouldn't feel bad about it. Hmmm...

3d- Xenos are killed as a mercy, because nothing should be forced to live a life without possibility of redemption.I like this one. It makes me smile.

3e- There can be no mercy for deamonkind, as there is no way for them to truly die. They are the only things beyond mercy.Beyond mercy....but we 'kill' them anyway.

Banish, kick to the curb, knock out of the park, purge...they may not truly die, as in cease to be, but that doesn't mean the Mercies would look at a demon incursion and go 'Well, that would be a huge waste of time now wouldn't it?'

A bullet for you, a bullet for you, EVERYONE GETS A BULLET!

I am more of a Zer0 fan.

One final thing that gnawed at the back of my mind: The Open Pages. How much does your everyday DA know? Does an average battle brother know that he is an Unforgiven? If so, I guess your gold, but I feel like that's not the case. The issue being, if there are Open Pages and Closed Pages, you're already telling marines more than they need to know: that there're secrets and they're for me to know and you to find out.

Well technically, there are only Open Pages, so far as I have written. It's a bit of a double entendre, I think. But at any rate, the term Open Pages may not even be known to the lower ranks. To them, it may simply be the Clementia Angelus, til they see the hidden chapter(s).

[Messor]

Well, on one hand, being religious is not the same as being adherent to the Imperial Creed. I would argue that the large majority of Space Marines qualify as religious, but in adherence to their own beliefs rather than the Creed. But on the other hand, I am trying to work it into more of a philosophy than a religion, though the differences between the two are vague at best.

Of course, and you'd be right to qualify them like that. I've just always considered the monk aspect of the Astartes to be essentially philosophy, with barely if any real "religion" involved. There's a LOT of leeway, I believe, where the warp and psychic presence is concerned, but I've still never really seen anything particularly religious among marines except for the occasional Creed-ites. Outside them, I just don't know what Marines "believe" which makes things difficult besides knowing the Thousand Mercies do seem to believe a lot of things. So yes, I think more philosophy should be your aim...but there's room to maneuver.

Again, I don't think you, or rather Astartes, have to affiliate with the Creed to have a concept or notion of damnation. I would argue that Marines know that Chaos is real, and that affiliation with treachery, much less Chaos itself, is qualification enough for 'damnation' regardless of a specific definition or metaphysical construct, but they wouldn't go so far as to accept the Chaos Gods as actually being Gods. I hear the quote 'False Gods' all the time in fluff. It's reasonable that Marines would say 'My faith is true, and I'm good, but your faith is false, and you're damned.' Note that faith doesn't require the belief in a God (as the Creed would require).

 

At any rate, ask a Black Templar, Ultramarine or Blood Angel if they think Orks, Heretics, Demons or pee-pants cowards qualify as 'damned' and I'm sure you would get a 'Yes,' more often than 'No.'

I suppose there's a question of perspective here, but there two things you mention that give me pause. 1)Damnation itself is classically defined as being post-mortal, and 2)painful. This touches on some things below, but basically this relies on either some sort of metaphysical whozitandwhatzit, OR the Mercies just believing that being in a [mortal] state of damnation IS in some way painful/a form of suffering for the impure(which seems more manageable to me). In other words, if they can get themselves to believe death is the answer, they can convince themselves that the impure are indeed suffering for their treachery.

Death is not a gateway to damnation. The acts in life are the gateway, and death is just what sends the damned off to be fiddled and toyed with by his false gods. Or in other words, you're damned before the Mercies kill you: they're just saving the victim from himself, and from those he would go on to hurt should he be allowed to live. They can't grant the dead mercy from their damnation though because, well, they can only do so much for a guy. Damnation would be a pretty moot concept if dying meant your slate was cleaned.

 

The 'reward' for a faithful life's end is sort of the stumbling stone here. I am thinking of leaving it out entirely. As in, life is impure, but if you go through it without succumbing, good for you, congratulations. The Astartes are rough enough to go along with a perverse notion of original sin without a promise of a super awesome afterlife for resisting baser temptations.

 

In terms of allies or civilians dying, it could be met with the same casual disregard. If they were good people, then they died well enough, and should be happy enough with that.

 

The point is, the notion of mercy may be seen as inapplicable to good people or the Mercies themselves (so long as they remain faithful). The notion of damnation may serve well enough to keep Mercies on the straight and narrow, so long as it's beaten into their brains with exceptional effort by Chapter lore and such.

So yeah, that ties into the above. Damnation'd usually be the return for having the dirty slate when you die. Here, no one has ANY idea about what might or might not happen to them except Eldar...they have a pretty good idea what's waiting for them. If there's anything for anyone else, I honestly just haven't seen it.

 

It would be easier if you left the other side out, but I don't think you can. It's the essential other side of the coin. The Mercies could ignore it, but logically it's there, so unless you want to somehow play off some sort of hypocrisy on their part...

Well, on one hand there is the typical answer of any religion, where suicide is a no no. If you skip the trial of life, you don't get the bonus for ending it pure. The same might be said for murder, if applied to a setting as twisted as grimdark. Meaning that killing someone while they're pure isn't doing them much of a favor, if there is no pay off after death, as I mentioned above. Death may only be a mercy once someone has fallen off the noble path. That disposition would help avoid the 'kill em all, it'll be good for them!' bent.

But on the other hand? I see this working, but some kind of balance has to be struck between "To kill the innocent condemns us as well" and "The sooner you die pure, the better".

Death is the mercy, and potentially a consequence as well. Meaning that by killing a damned person, they are performing an act of mercy: saving him from the greater sins he wold go on to commit, and also saving those victims he would inflict the sins upon, but they wouldn't set out to kill someone if they hadn't gone corrupt (making it a consequence). In addition, Mercies in the Inner Circle and aware of the Fallen may feel that a life spent outside the Emperor's good graces (like the Unforgiven themselves) is a life of pain, and ending the life of a heretic is therefore doing them yet another favor.

 

So if life is hard enough resisting the Nascent Treachery, and then a person falls to corruption and in turn 1-casts himself out of the Emperor's good graces, 2- threatens the lives of the innocent, and 3- is beyond hope of redemption (like the Fallen), then killing them is in many ways a mercy. It still sucks, because, you know, the eternity of torment at the hands of the Chaos Gods thing...but I suppose if they don't believe in that much, they wouldn't feel bad about it. Hmmm...

So is this eternity of torment official fluff? Or just the belief of the Mercies? I would not go that route for the main reason that it immediately becomes not a mercy, really by any stretch of the imagination, its just classic damnation. I feel they'd be better off believing that those succumbing to Nascent Treachery are inducing pain and suffering on themselves and others and the oblivion of death is a merciful release from that. Once you go the torture of souls route, it's no longer mercy you're granting.

Banish, kick to the curb, knock out of the park, purge...they may not truly die, as in cease to be, but that doesn't mean the Mercies would look at a demon incursion and go 'Well, that would be a huge waste of time now wouldn't it?'

Quite so.

I am more of a Zer0 fan.

And I'm just a huge fan of tarantula turrets. If they had those in plastic... I also realize I misquoted that a little.

Well technically, there are only Open Pages, so far as I have written. It's a bit of a double entendre, I think. But at any rate, the term Open Pages may not even be known to the lower ranks. To them, it may simply be the Clementia Angelus, til they see the hidden chapter(s).

Ah. I can dig that.

[Octavulg]

The Thousand Mercies

I don't really like this name - feels more Word Bearer warband than Dark Angels successor chapter. Angels of Mercy would be a very DA name (even moreso if you can find a synonym that ends with "tion" ).

A Dark Angels successor of the 10th founding, the Thousand Mercies’ initiation into the Unforgiven was entrusted to a coterie led by Master Augustine of the Dark Angels 3rd Company.

That's not a Dark Angels name. They're all very Biblical.

* * *

I'm not really sure what you're trying to do. I read the thread, and am now even more confused.

I like the whole Clementia angle. I'd actually think the best thing to do wouldn't be deprivation etc, but telling the story of the Dark Angels in allegory (which, IIRC, the DA already do to some extent). Train them for the knowledge beforehand, basically. The progression through the Clementia prepares them for progression through the knowledge of the Fallen. Then you can pepper the whole thing with allegories from the Clementia.

Hell, you could even go all Circles of Zerthimon on things. The ability to understand one aspect of the Clementia is what gives you the ability to unlock the next (somehow). Basically automated induction into the Inner Circle.

Also, surely he would have gotten around to naming the chapter by the time he died.

In any case, going all masochistic seems a bit dull to me. Religious zealotry is so passe. I dunno...what are you trying to do and what are you concerned about?