captain sox Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Hey folks! Hear me out on this one and take some time to think about it... Since we can take either a heavy or special weapon with a 5 man tactical squad, why would you ever take 10? I think 6 or 7 man would be ideal. Usaully, one would take a 10 man with a special and heavy weapon, combat squad them, and use some sort of transport. In all honesty, I just want the tac squad to access the Heavy. We can get up to 6 more Heavy weapons relatively cheap on the board with our codex... to help support DW and or RW squads. What are your thoughts on just having a 6 or maybe even 7 man Tac Squad? the 3 or 4 less PA marines could buy you one more TDA Marine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I was thinking about this, but if your marines are active (not sitting in one place) ten would be good to absorb bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Yep. it still make for goo anti-infantry if you run 10 and put a plasma gun and either a missile launcher, heavy bolter,or meltagun in there for some 24+" range for all unit members sort of support. Don't bother withe Vet. Sgt., just to keep things on the cheap. Other than that, there is this special standard that doubles the effectiveness of boltguns. You know, you can always just buy a 10-man Tactical Squad with NO special or heavy weapons, or a vet. sgt., if you have that standard in your army and wish to add some relatively cheap firepower that is Scoring. 140 pts. for 40 stationary bolter shots (20 on the move withing 12+" - 24"; 40 again at 12-" rapid fire range) is not too shabby, and has very good staying power. So, how about having two such Tactical Squads for laying down fire, and leave the special and heavy weapons to Assault/Veteran/Command Squads and Devastator Squads? If you do have extra points left over, then you can put some special/heavy weapons into the Tactical Squads, if you want to. This is even fairly effective without said standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 My staple core of my army has been, and so far will continue to be, 3 10-man Tac Squads and a Company-Master. It works as a solid core on which everything else can revolve. Sure, I also regularly run DW and the like but for my Greenwing this is my staple. I think it works, I use them as support units and objective holders bringing up bodies and bullets to hammer into the foe. I find the smaller the squad the sooner it becomes less useful for my army. This all said, I generally focus on gaining the best cover save possible for my Tacs :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Hey folks! Hear me out on this one and take some time to think about it... Since we can take either a heavy or special weapon with a 5 man tactical squad, why would you ever take 10? I think 6 or 7 man would be ideal. Usaully, one would take a 10 man with a special and heavy weapon, combat squad them, and use some sort of transport. In all honesty, I just want the tac squad to access the Heavy. We can get up to 6 more Heavy weapons relatively cheap on the board with our codex... to help support DW and or RW squads. What are your thoughts on just having a 6 or maybe even 7 man Tac Squad? the 3 or 4 less PA marines could buy you one more TDA Marine... I took 6x 10 man tactical squads with a plasma cannon in each and a command squad with a standard of devastation. Anyone want to know what happens to Marneus Calgar when he's shot 216 times in one turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Yea the standard of Devastation just begs for 10 man tac squads with Heavy Bolters in them. Hell I even run the Devastator squads at 10 men these days to get extra bolts when I take that banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordentHex Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 agreed: Full Devastator squads with 4 H. bolters is a world of pain on just about any unit. Even plague marines and terminators will not want to walk directly into that kind of lead. Can only imagine what kind of hurt that would cause with a standard of devastation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Well, I get a 10 men to get a heavy and a special... good specially for combat squadding. I don't think 10 men tactials are dead... quite the contrary.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 It's classic in a sense, and for that reason - preferable. If I think of a tactical squad... then the ten man comes to mind. That said, the benefit of a combat squad to fill points with a decent weapon is certainly worth considering - but once it loses a model or two, it will drastically impact on the effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I took 6x 10 man tactical squads with a plasma cannon in each and a command squad with a standard of devastation. Anyone want to know what happens to Marneus Calgar when he's shot 216 times in one turn? Same thing as what happened to him on Macragge during that Tyranid invasion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiodome Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 it's not as if the only models in a tactical squad that counts is the heavy weapon. i often take 2x10 man squads with NO special/heavy weapons, 140 pts and cheap as chips to sit next to a dakka banner. and if you want a squad to hold an objective, 5 guys just doesn't cut it. the importance of the heavy/special has arguably even been reduced with changes to barrage and the introduction of precision strikes. i rarely have a game with there's isn't at least one instance of a particular marine being specifically removed by one or the other of those rules. lastly with the DA tactical squads being stubborn those extra bodies really matter for controlling assaults. basically if you're only using 5 man tac' squads you probably haven't really thought things through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Well, I also run two small 5 man tactical squads in razorbacks, usually arming them with a plasma gun and combi plasma. They work in teams and usually are enough to take down some big things together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobrakei Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I agree with most of the sentiments here. I run 2 x 10 man Tacts with a plasma gun and plasma cannon, and they have been outstanding so far in my games. I think since 6th changed how rapid fire weapons work Tactical Marines have become much more effective, and can get into the fight a lot earlier. My next list will have the SoD, and it's gonna be fun to throw 30+ bolter shots out from each unit every turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upstartes Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 There is still a chance of rolling up a kill point game, and being able to consolidate those 5-man groups into 10-man squads is great if that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain sox Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 Great feedback everyone... I like the suggestions and ideas coming from this... keep 'em coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happybounce Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I guess I don't understand taking 6-7 man squads of Tactical Marines to gain access to heavy weapons, when a Devestator squad gives you access to four. Why not take a 10-man Dev squad and split it into 2 units? Or even a few 6-man Dev squads with 2-3 weapons? Of course, I likely play very differently than you so that will affect not only what I think someone should take, but also my understanding of tactics and loadouts. Part of the reason I'm switching to DA is to remember what a shooting phase is like, instead of the run/turbo boost phase. That being said, I assume part of the reason for this is obviously to claim objectives on your side of the board, but with all the different missions now I think that's a lot less important. And this is why! Lots of scoring units don't matter in Capture the Relic or Purge the Alien (Annihilation), and I would argue they are of limited use in The Emperor's Will (2 objectives). That leaves the three multi-objective missions. In Big Guns Never Tire, heavy support scores--heyo! Awesome with Dev squads, obviously. In The Scouring, fast attack scores--and being as you are using dev squads to support Ravenwing/Deathwing, this makes them awesome even without the unlock characters. Last but not least is Crusade, the ol' classic. Chances are you'll get to put at least two objectives in your deployment zone, meaning you can defend them with less troops; and honestly if your opponent won the roll and gets to put two (to your one) or three (to your two) in his zone, having a number of static marine squads with heavy weapons won't help much. Sure if you only have a few scoring units total you will have a tough time, but all you need to win is one objective, which Marines are awesome at! While it's the toughest matchup for armies with fewer troops it's far from a total loss, especially if you play hard to deny/contest the opponent's objectives with Ravenwing/Deathwing. A unit of 10 camo-cloaked scouts with sniper rifles hunkering down on home base won't draw much fire with a bunch of Devestator squads blasting away. I ran a Chaos Marines Khorne army for most of the last 6 months, and only took two 10-man Marine units at 1850. When I lost (and lost I did), it had nothing to do with objectives, except once I think. But then again I play very different. For what it's worth I'm building a 10-man tac squad to walk my Techpriest around and give infantry support to a couple of Ven Dreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Ever since third edition, the core of my non-DW lists has been 3 ten-man plas/plas squads. They've never let me down, even without the dakkapole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAZ_AV_NZ Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 If you take 5 men it easy kill points. so always take 10 wherever possible - max squad sizes. I generally use my squads in 10 and as March10k said 3 ten man plas/plas sqauds always do well. For Dev sqauds 6-7 man is ok as they sit well back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Hey folks! Hear me out on this one and take some time to think about it... Since we can take either a heavy or special weapon with a 5 man tactical squad, why would you ever take 10? I think 6 or 7 man would be ideal. Usaully, one would take a 10 man with a special and heavy weapon, combat squad them, and use some sort of transport. In all honesty, I just want the tac squad to access the Heavy. We can get up to 6 more Heavy weapons relatively cheap on the board with our codex... to help support DW and or RW squads. What are your thoughts on just having a 6 or maybe even 7 man Tac Squad? the 3 or 4 less PA marines could buy you one more TDA Marine... This could work, if you add in a Razorback into the Mix. Access to more heavy weapons and better survivability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I took 6x 10 man tactical squads with a plasma cannon in each and a command squad with a standard of devastation. Anyone want to know what happens to Marneus Calgar when he's shot 216 times in one turn? Same thing as what happened to him on Macragge during that Tyranid invasion? If the answer to that is "rended limb from limb and bleeding like a moldy piece of swiss cheese" then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Hey folks! Hear me out on this one and take some time to think about it... Since we can take either a heavy or special weapon with a 5 man tactical squad, why would you ever take 10? I think 6 or 7 man would be ideal. Usaully, one would take a 10 man with a special and heavy weapon, combat squad them, and use some sort of transport. In all honesty, I just want the tac squad to access the Heavy. We can get up to 6 more Heavy weapons relatively cheap on the board with our codex... to help support DW and or RW squads. What are your thoughts on just having a 6 or maybe even 7 man Tac Squad? the 3 or 4 less PA marines could buy you one more TDA Marine... This could work, if you add in a Razorback into the Mix. Access to more heavy weapons and better survivability. Negative on the razorback. You are adding a free KP and first blood for your enemy. I used to tool all my tac squads with one till my last 3 games. They didnt manage to get a single shot off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 unless you have bigger and meaner things on the table :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I use a 10-man Tac to travel with Azrael due to the Inv Save, but apart from that I'd rather have a pair of 5-man Tac's doubling up on a Special or a Heavy weapon. It's almost like being able to have two Specials or two Heavies in a single Tac Squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 In the current meta Razorbacks and Rhinos just aren't survivable enough for offensive opps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I use a 10-man Tac to travel with Azrael due to the Inv Save, but apart from that I'd rather have a pair of 5-man Tac's doubling up on a Special or a Heavy weapon. It's almost like being able to have two Specials or two Heavies in a single Tac Squad. ...except for the double kill points, and the fact that if you want to actually hold an objective, you still have to use both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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