Tactics against Tyranids

[Stupid Waldo]

Well he always deep strikes his flyrant, but i thought that regardless of how it enters, it always comes in swooping?  And I'll have to find the points cost and rules for strafing run, thanks for letting me know about that. those together might tip the balance a little more in my favor

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Regardless of whether a deep striking FMC is in Swooping or Gliding mode, you still can't Vector Strike something unless you physically pass over it.  To pass over something, you need a starting point and an end point; deep striking has no start point, just an end point.  Or perhaps a way of putting it is that the start and end points are the same.  They physically cannot Vector Strike you upon deep striking.

 

I can't put points costs for options on the boards, but I can tell you that the overall point cost for the Talon dropped, as did the cost for the two missile options.  My lascannon Talons, for example, dropped from 150 to 140.

 

Strafing Run, on the other hand, can be found in the BGB under the big Special Rules chapter.  Basically, you gain +1 BS and Pinning when firing at all non-Skimmer, non-Flyer units.

[Stupid Waldo]

Do you know if the missile options are the same as the las option now? seeing as they were only slightly more expensive before.  And I didn't think about units not being able to move after deep striking, since they count as having moved already. I just thought that didn't apply to flying units.

[DarkGuard]

TMLs are 145pts in total now, while skyhammers are 125pts in total now. Pretty nice discount on the latter, which is becoming my go to option due to cheapness.

 

Also, with Sternguard, why take a heavy flamer and combi-flamers when you can take two heavy flamers?

 

Plus, against Nids, 2x heavy flamers and combi-plasmas would be best, it'll deal with pretty much everything they have.

[Stupid Waldo]

Yeah I just got death from the skies so i see that my skyhammers are much cheaper, though they do lack the punch that the other weapons have.  And my idea behind the combi-flamers was to make them charge-proof.  If i stuck them in a forward placed aegis line, they'd be pretty hard to deal with, and even harder to assault when they all can shoot flame weapons.  I do however see the usefulness in combi-plasmas as well. it seems to me that its going to be a game to game choice

[DarkGuard]

With Sternguard, especially against Nids, why take combi-flamers when you can take heavy flamers? Nids fear heavy flamers, particularly if they charge into them. Combi-flamers are OK, but in the grand scheme of things don't do much different to heavy flamers and dragonfire, having something different would be better.

[Stupid Waldo]

Thats true to. and for some reason it sticks in my mind all the time that combi-flamers are cheaper than combi-plasmas when they aren't.

[infornography]

Keep in mind, a savvy tyranid player will start his flyrant on the board hiding behind LOS blocking terrain and then Just swoop off the board (ideally Vector Striking something along the way) before your turn 2.  Then when your flyer comes on his flyrant is not around to shoot at, then his flyrant comes on and puts 12 twin linked S6 shots into yours. 

 

Alternatively it will use Iron arm and just laugh at your shooting.  Either way.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Alternatively it will use Iron arm and just laugh at your shooting.  Either way.

 

This. Iron Arm Flyrants... So much hate... And somrtimes only taking a Grounded wound on a 4+! Crazy!

[infornography]

I think that GW made Iron Arm too good.

 

If it just gave +1 S, +1 T, and EW, it would still be the best power in biomancy, though not by much.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Had the pleasure of playing against a max-size Warrior brood that wheeled around so the wounds were constantly spread.

 

And then the Zoanthropes cast Endurance on it.

 

It wasn't a tough fight, but I was definitely amused at the synergy of having It Will Not Die on nine 3W models.

 

I agree that Iron Arm is really good though.

[roryokane]

How did you kill them in the end? Did you hit the Zoanthrope with las/krak and then just kill the warriors with massed bolter fire?

[Disruptor_fe404]

How did you kill them in the end? Did you hit the Zoanthrope with las/krak and then just kill the warriors with massed bolter fire?

 

Took a calculated risk (because the Warriors had boneswords) and charged them with Terminators to deny them their Feel No Pain. Pretty much ignored the Zoanthropes.

[YAK]

one should always, but especialy against hordes make sure to fully use combat tactics!!! fall back after a few wounds to deny the charge. then auto rally with ATSKNF and re-apply bolters. this only works tho, untill your opponent wises up and stops shooting at things he wants to assault. not nessisarily a bad thing....

 

i'll also throw my vote in with 2 heavy flamer combi plasma sternguard. actually if he's playing nidzilla plasma guns anywhere you can get them is a good idea.

 

ohh and one thing i love about 6th ed is we can now use the krak grenades that every marine comes with standard in assault vs monsterous creatures.... something i've wished to do for years

 

 and remember... genestealers are scary.... BUT not when they're on fire!

[rat of vengence]

I like to gun the nids down. Quad autocannons on a dread are great for putting wounds on anything, twin-linked helps if you really have to shoot winged beasties. Aegis with the Lascannon is good too. I use a squad of scouts to fire that. Las/autocannon predator, Landspeeder with missiles, sternguard with a rhino (you want them shooting, not hacking.

 

Good times :)

 

RoV

[DarkGuard]

Rifleman Dreads are actually subpar against Nids. They don't instant kill the medium beasties, struggled with the saves (and toughness) of the bigger beasties, and don't kill anywhere near enough of the little beasties. Of course, handy against Flyrant to force grounding, but then just take an Aegis Line.

 

However, if you put psybolts in said Dread, then it becomes handy, just for being able to ID the medium beasties.

[Stupid Waldo]

Well I just played a small game against said nid player and many of these ideas really worked in my favor.  I took 5 sternies (3 combi plasma, 1 combi flamer and 1 heavy flamer) who killed a whole load of bugs (though he didn't field his ground tyrant).  The combi-flamer did come in handy for holding off a horde of charging termagants.  I went with the missile idea too, and gave my stormtalon typhoon missiles for the game, and my devastators all too missile launchers.  They weren't as effective as I had hoped, but they did instant kill one zoanthrope, and heaped some wounds onto his broodlord.  I used a master of the forge for my hq, and while i wasn't terribly impressed, neither did he disappoint.  He only really was effective the very first turn when i killed the entire squad of genestealers in one shot from the conversion beamer (At the S8 AP4 range).  I tried using my land speeders (MM and HF) to hit his hive guard from behind, which was partly successful, but only because of the intervention of my stormtalon.  One thing that worked rather well for me was the whirlwind.  only got one shot off before he deep struck his zoanthropes next to it and annihilated it, but i took out half a brood of termagants, and because he put the zoanthropes there they were caught between my master of the forge, devastator squad, combat squad and sternguard squad, so they got pulled apart pretty quickly.  I also found that flyrants aren't half as scary as I had been thinking, as a good volley of bolters has a decent chance of putting him on the ground at least, where my other guys can pull him apart.  One question for everyone.  If a flying creature is pinned, does it take a grounded wound automatically??

[Disruptor_fe404]

I believe pinned swooping MCs just go into dive mode, but I could be wrong. ++OR++ would know!

 

And that's the third time I've mentioned the ++OR++ today...

[infornography]

Pretty much every flying monstrous creature is fearless.  Pinning does nothing to them.  If they were not fearless, it still wouldn't give them a grounding wound unless they failed the grounding test for being hit, but pinning itself does nothing to a flyrant.

[rat of vengence]

Rifleman Dreads are actually subpar against Nids. They don't instant kill the medium beasties, struggled with the saves (and toughness) of the bigger beasties, and don't kill anywhere near enough of the little beasties. Of course, handy against Flyrant to force grounding, but then just take an Aegis Line.

 

However, if you put psybolts in said Dread, then it becomes handy, just for being able to ID the medium beasties.

I do see you points, and they are good, but a hard to kill mobile dealer of four long range twinlinked S7 shots a turn is pretty useful. Volume of fire is the way to go :)

I only use it against bigger beasties, unless it has none of them left to add wounds to.

 

RoV

[DarkGuard]

Rifleman Dreads aren't bad, and actually good against a lot of armies. Nids are unfortunately one of the armies they aren't so good at, doesn't mean I'm saying they're bad though.

[infornography]

S8 AP3 is a sweet spot profile for dealing with nids due to the number of beasties with T6 3+ and a lot of others with T4 multiwound and 4+ or 5+.  Bolter fire is also effective against the smaller bugs since they have pathetic saves and T3. 

 

S7 AP4 is just not particularly good against them.  It isn't bad but not really good.  The strength is partially wasted on almost everything that isn't an MC and it isn't quite high enough to wound the big critters on 2+ or ignore their save.  Unless your opponent is fielding Harpies for some silly reason.  I would much rather have a heavy bolter or assault cannon to an auto cannon against nids.  Though against most other armies, I'd rather take that auto cannon to deal with light vehicles.