Heavy Support!

[jerryrich]

its a dice and tactics game. you can be the best in the world but if you have a bad day the best list can still lose.

[King Willy]

It's also a game of maths so with a little(read intense) thought it can be broken

 

It also has terrible inter-codex balance

[jerryrich]

wow i was agreeing with you about the resident forum troll..... have fun playing, it is still a game after all, not all that important in the grand scheme of things.

[King Willy]

Yeah I hate that I agree with him since that's not how I play I'm lucky to play with a group that use what they like rather then what they read on the net

 

But I don t hide from the fact that if played in a certain way the game is terribly broken and unbalanced

 

I m a hobbiest who enjoys making gun sounds and pretending little plastic toys a dying but who plays and loses enough to know I m using terrible lists

[Ravenfeld]

Really for me it comes down to what I want to get to fill out my last two Heavy Slots, I already own two Obliterators.. now do I want nice, cheap, dual preds to fire from backfield, or do I want a havoc squad & another two Oblits. From a competitive stand point it seems like the ladder, of course I will almost certainly have to give the Havocs MoN, cause that's how I roll.

 

I was just thinking that none of my vanilla armies / concepts really capitalize on tanks, I actually have no predators at all, and I thought the slow, determined advance of the DG would really mesh well with them. That being said it is also a Chaos army, so having stuff that is chaosy is what makes it different from the loyalists so Obliterators and Autocannon havocs are different enough to present unique game play opportunities.

 

I am also curious (although its fast attack, not heavy) about how many people have run tons of Hell Drakes against the new Tau and how those games went? Looking it at I have a couple of ideas for potential conversions down the road, but I don't wanna spend the cash on a model I don't love for the express reason of winning if the meta shifts to air no longer being king, ya know?

 

Also, just realized MoN Bikers are toughness 6, which is actually rather frightening all things considered... maybe I will have to pick some up after all..

[the jeske]

I am also curious (although its fast attack, not heavy) about how many

people have run tons of Hell Drakes against the new Tau and how those

games went?

at1500-2k points non double FoC ?

[Chaeron]

 

realy ? your runing singles or helldrakes or plagumarines or oblits , when opposing armies spam their good support units ?

I feel sad for the jeske were nobody has fun unless they all play the same super optimal army

 

I think it's more getting the most bang for your buck. You ultimately pick the list - but that's often where a game is won or lost. Depends on what you want from it - but I'd rather maximise my chance of winning and being able to take on opponents than necessarily choose something for the sake of coolness.

[Ravenfeld]

I am also curious (although its fast attack, not heavy) about how many

people have run tons of Hell Drakes against the new Tau and how those

games went?

at1500-2k points non double FoC ?

Yep, we usually play 1500 - 1999+1 at my LGS, so I just want to see how other games are going with these beasties. I know that Tau just came out so there won't be huge amounts of matches, but I am sure someone has some insight!

I think it's more getting the most bang for your buck. You ultimately pick the list - but that's often where a game is won or lost. Depends on what you want from it - but I'd rather maximise my chance of winning and being able to take on opponents than necessarily choose something for the sake of coolness.

I feel I am somewhere between the two extremes. I like to win, but I like to really stick to my themes with my forces. This encourages me to try and make fluffy lists with some bite. Might be suboptimal, but against most opponents I'll do okay. That being said you need to mix functionality with flash, you can't just choose all the shiny units because they are shiny and ignore the work horses because they are more mundane. Yet I can't help but feel that some of the enjoyment of the game is lost when you "maximize" your chance of winning when tailoring a list. You take the best options, but you take them all the time, you run similar lists perpetually without room for growth or adaptation, and on occasion you either a) run a list for fun to stretch your legs or you move on to an entirely new army where you can be competitive in a different way. Not trying to knock anyone's preferences, but I find I like to try new things and mess around with the "underdog" units to see if they can work in certain settings, to me that is more fun than simply winning every time I put plastic to table.

[King Willy]

I totally agree I can get everything in the dex to perform well but I find the big problem of our dex working against us slaps the rest of the army in the face

 

Warp talons for example worked great in a massive store event game/clusterfudge because points wash t an issue so they could slam home and mess up a frontline support unit like troops trying to take objectives and possessed a decent as a wedge but like I said these games had no point limit so I took everything I owned

In proper games they don't help the army as a whole and that makes me sad since I love them in the same way as I love stern guard and vanguard

[the jeske]

 

 

Yep, we usually play 1500 - 1999+1 at my LGS, so I just want to see how

other games are going with these beasties. I know that Tau just came out

so there won't be huge amounts of matches, but I am sure someone has

some insight!

there is two problems . first at 1999 [aka almost 2kpoints] . tau who take IG as ally are very good at killing any flyer in the game . skyfire on broadsides , triple las on vendettas . even if they run just 2x3 broadsides[and they will] and 2 vendettas[they probably will if they take Ig as ally] and we have 3 helldrakes they are still killing them faster then we can kill them [+master of the fleet messes up our reservs big time]. Am not going to say what happens if it is also FW , because then you can forget about using chaos flyers  . If they take SW as ally it is easier  , bale flamers kill meq good , we still cant deal with broadsides and we have problems with suits[shield drones and HQ tanking wounds] , the SW give them a nice utility [staff, choser, jaws which are ok against pms awesome against nids and what is more important very good tarpit/counter units for cheap,divination buffed LF can sometimes hurt too] , that match ups depands on luck . If we get drakes fast and 2-3 fast we can try to short range/ melee tau , if it doesnt we end up stuck in GH cant use flamers against them , broadsides start stuning our dudes in general bad things happen .

 

SM mix is also a tought match up , because of the BB status and because combat tactics+ATKNF makes for awesome tar pit units , different the SW[because you dont try to beat/tar pit stuff with superior troops , but run away and use the superior fire power of the tau army to kill of enemies]. Avanger can hurt a lot . As do SR and talons .

 

necron team ups I dont have fully tested yet , but they are very interesting guess and tesla work wonderful with tau gunlines and Destroyer lord with wrights are an awesome counter/tar pit unit .

 

I have not even touched eldar yet , not enough time

 

when you play lower point games closer to 1500 , you will see fewer ally . less IG less necron and more SW/marines . 500 of SW has sadly more utility then 500pts of guard [more shoty or more flyers +marbo and some gimiks like psyker squad or master of the fleet are nice , but not as nice as being less vunerable to fast moving units/armies]. the drakes suffer the same , because we have fewer of them[well in general] then at 1999 , but tau wont always have fewer broadsides . IMO for a tau force it is better to cut longstrike+hammerhead first then run 2x2 broadsides or 1x3 and a hammerhead , but that is yet to be tested with all armies , more of a gut feel about that .