Havocs

[Gumo9]

I've been reading the heavy support thread with interest and was wondering how people are arming their Havoc squads and their role within your army.

 

I currently don't have any Havocs and my initial thoughts were for them to perform the anti-aircraft role, but what do you use them for?

 

G

[TheDevourer]

Cheap Autocannon. So 4 Autocannons. If you already have enough autocannons, then go for 4 lascannon havocs (Only if you don´t want to play obliterators).

[Warsmith Aznable]

For fire support I like the trusty Autocannon team. I also have a team of Havocs that can have special weapons if I want to spam plasma or melta (usually plasma.)

 

For Havocs to play an AA role you're looking at ML and Flakk upgrade. I would rather have a squad manning a Quadcannon or Flakk ML spread throughout my CSM. But mostly I let my Heldrakes do fly-by hits for AA rather than have a dedicated AA unit.

[Ammonius]

I have an autocannon team (4 Autocannons) and their job on Turn 1 is to either try to get first blood from any low-to-mid AV Transports in range or put 8 shots into any weapon emplacements associated with an Aegis Defense Line.

 

After Turn 1, I try to prioritize AA guns>Valid vehicle targets>Outflankers/Deepstrikers that have arrived but not yet moved.

 

As always, bad dice make for bad times, but with average rolling, they are a good points investment.

 

(And the FW autocannons look great!)

[Zhorzh]

I have ML Havocs and they're not bad. Autocannon Havocs are definately the best because they're cheap, have a lot of high Str shots and I don't think they're bad in any situation.

[minigun762]

4 Autocannons are cheap and effective.

4 Lascannons are also fairly cheap and give you that all important AP2 and the ability to instant-kill T4. Bring a much higher LC density than Oblits.

4 Missiles are an option if your meta is saturated with flyers and you really need those flakk missiles. Beyond AA, I don't believe normal missiles offer anything worthwhile.

[zyl-]

4 Autocannons are cheap and effective.

4 Lascannons are also fairly cheap and give you that all important AP2 and the ability to instant-kill T4. Bring a much higher LC density than Oblits.

4 Missiles are an option if your meta is saturated with flyers and you really need those flakk missiles. Beyond AA, I don't believe normal missiles offer anything worthwhile.

Missiles still double tough a 4 and frag missiles can take on swarms well.

[minigun762]

Missiles still double tough a 4 and frag missiles can take on swarms well.

It's true but in my eyes, I'd rather take Lascannons for the double strength shots and AC's do a fine enough job at killing horde or swarms in most situations.

 

The niche where missiles are superior is really really small and the value of AP3 is usually not that high in Chaos lists with access to multiple drakes, Oblits Plasma and Noise Marines.  

 

Just my gut feeling.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Does nobody use Heavy Bolters? I want to make some because I like the Devastator bits and I have a conversion idea bouncing around my head, but I'm unsure about deployment and role.

[chillin]

I used to sometimes run a dakka army , with lotsa AC's and HB's it was pretty fun and pretty effective, but that was a while ago, I dont know how well it would work now. I've had my HB havocs do some pretty good stuff even against MEQ's, and of course it was murder against eldar and DE. But that was not in this ed. of the dex or this ed. of the rulebook, so I dont know how they would be now.

[totgeboren]

The h.bolter costs way to much for what it does imo, and it also lacks that all important 48" range. I converted mine into autocannons.

I usually run a squad of 3 ac and 1 lc. I know mixing is generally a bad idea, and I will probably play them as 4 ac, but funnily enough it is often the lc that kills whatever I'm targeting.

What I do know is that range 48" guns is great, much better than 36", and if you use that range, your Havocs will likely stay alive a long time.

[Raulmichile]

@Max:

 

I occasionally run a 5 man Havoc squad w/3HB in small casual games running 6 inches behind my main battleline and basically they shoot at whatever target my CSM squads with plas/HB or 2x plas also shoot. They share synergy with anti infantry squads in the army. They are not mega-wonderful but they are cheap.

 

I also concur that AC Havocs are the best deal. They are my default pick for HS in 90% of my lists since 3.5 Ed. Times (tank hunters anyone? Oh yeah babe...)

[berzerkermike84]

auto cannons are dead killy. i have taken down:dark eldar,space marines,necrons, and nids with them. also give them the nurgle mark so they will be tough to take down. 

[King Willy]

I still run heavy bolters at first because I hadn t converted them but now because my meta isn t flyer saturated

 

Autocannons do really well though when I get the chance to use them and rarely if ever fail to make there points back in an anti tank role

Super effective against dreadnoughts

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I love the idea of massed heavy bolters.  Modelled properly, such a squad would look awesome and are capable of chucking a bucket of dice.  The problem is that autocannons, while fewer shots, do everything that the heavy bolters do and more.  8 shots will still put 6 hits on a squad on average, S7 wounds every base infantry in the game on a 2+, and they're both AP4.  The autocannons do a better job of plinking armor monstrous creatures, too.  For Havocs, I really think our best options are ACs, MLs, or a mix of the two.  The other options can be covered better elsewhere.

[Verythrax Draconis]

How are you guys modelling your havocs? I see that GW is selling crapcast with a non-reposable squad with only one weapon of each, for 25 quid. I'm quite inclined to spend the same 25 in a MKIII armor squad from FW to make a IW themed unit, and spend more on the weapons.

[TheDevourer]

I´m modelling them using the normal chaos space marines and then using the forgeworld autocannon set.

[King Willy]

Heavy bolters with guard autocannons barrels

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Heavy bolters with guard autocannons barrels

 

This, or a little snip-job on the ridiculously overpriced Reaper option you get in every box of Chaos Termies.

[Redtoof]

I've been taking two units of havocs, one loaded with autocannon and the other with missile launchers. It's been working pretty well for me so far (and for my friend who uses the same combination), but it is obviously quite static and lacks a certain punch against terminators, heavy armour etc.

 

I've tried heavy bolters as well (I used them before I got the forgeworld autocannon) but the shorter range really changes the way the unit works. They probably need to be up front, maybe with mark of nurgle or just some extra bodies. Either way you'd end up paying more for a less flexible unit that autohavocs. Might be good if you play a lot of infantry only lists

[Fibonacci]

How are you guys modelling your havocs? I see that GW is selling crapcast with a non-reposable squad with only one weapon of each, for 25 quid. I'm quite inclined to spend the same 25 in a MKIII armor squad from FW to make a IW themed unit, and spend more on the weapons.

No, don't get those. Damn! Get a plastic 5 man CSM squad and a 5 pack of autocannons from Anvil Industry. Add a knife or axe blade under the barrel and your done.

[Brother Ambroz]

I model my AC havocs with devastator heavy bolter weapons with the barrels chopped off. In place of the bolter barrels, I glued on some assault cannon barrels and I think they look pretty awesome.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Also a common conversion, but one that I'm not particularly happy with, visually.  The gatling-style barrels imply a high rate of fire, which autocannons do not have.  Thus why I prefer to use Reaper and IG autocannon barrels.  Still, whatever floats your boat!

[Brother Ambroz]

Two rounds isn't a low rate of fire though.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Sure it is.  Bolters can fire two rounds.  Plasma guns fire two rounds.  In previous editions, pistols could fire twice, too.  It's better than one, sure, but it's still not a gatling-style rate of fire.  Once you start talking about three our four rounds in a single shooting phase, NOW we're talking about a "high" ROF.