Tau and the VIth....

[Grimtooth]

So everything that I have researched so far puts Tau Pathfinders as a major lynchpin for a Tau army, specifically their use of markerlights to enhance the rest of the army's effectiveness at shooting and reducing/removing cover.  So how can we deal with this issue first and foremost?

 

1.  Wolf Scouts

 

My first thought is to fight fire with fire.  Our Wolf Scouts were severely hampered with the changes to 6th edition disallowing assaults from reserves.  However, they are still Wolves and we can now use them to hunt some flesh and blood prey versus just hunting down big guns/vehicles on the back line.  Infiltration looks to be a more valid choice for Wolf Scouts to get them close to said Pathfinders and Outflanking more along the flank of the board to maybe get to Pathfinders as opposed to always going towards the enemy deployment zone.

 

2.  Fenrisian Wolves

 

With speed, both in movement and assault, our four-legged friends can get up and close quickly to hamper markerlights being tossed on higher value targets.  Tau are still Tau and Pathfinders cannot match up with a Fenrisian Wolf pack, even assaulting into cover without frag.

 

3.  Skyclaws/Swiftclaws

 

Speed, speed, and more speed.  Cover means less for these guys versus Pathfinders in cover as they have frags for the assault.  In addition, tasty flamers on either do not need ballistic skill to fry said Pathfinders in cover for succulent BBQ.  I would hesitate deepstriking the Skyclaws due to the availability of Interceptor in Tau.

 

4.  Thunderwolf Cavalry

 

Bit of overkill, but again going with speed and ability to crush quickly any Pathfinder unit.  Personally, I would not waste the time with my TWC/TWL on Pathfinders as I want them chewing into the meat of my opponent asap.

 

5.  Whirlwind

 

Dropping Pathfinders from out of LoS and denying a cover save sounds pretty good to me as well as mixing up our heavy support slot.

 

6.  Vindicator

 

For the reasons above with the drawback being having to expose themselves to incoming fire and getting close.

 

So share some thoughts on this aspect of the Tau or bring some additional insight into Tau units versus Wolves.

[ZayWolf]

drop pods and Wolf Guards with combi-flamers/plasma

 

-drop the drop pod right next to the terrain

-get wolf guard in the terrain so when you wipe out the pathfinders with flamers you will be in cover for the rest of the army (ya market lights i know ;p)

-once its your turn again plasma whatever vehicles are left that are in range

 

OR

 

do the same thing just with 10man strong Grey hunters you gets both flamer/plasma gun for free and they are troops

[Grimtooth]

The problem with podding is that there are SO many things that are capable of getting Interceptor that will be able to fire on your drop podding troops at the end of your movement phase before you even get a chance to fire on the Pathfinders.

[Jarl Deathwolf]

I played against Tau yesterday and this is what I found worked for me:

 

Drop podding Wolf Guard TDA with a mix of weapons, and then using the Drop pod itself to block LoS, therefore blocking interceptor. Then I just caused havoc, and of the five, two survived till the end, ending up in the enemy deployment zone. *EDIT* I gave one an assault cannon, which drove home the first round of firepower, chewing up half a squad of kroot.

 

A Rifleman Ven Dreadnought chewed through their infantry and vehicles alike, and even their flyers were scared to approach the mighty Thunderfang. He killed an entire squad on his own, plus a flyer, and some land vehicle I didn't catch the name of.

 

Long Fangs (of course), with a Rune Priest casting divination worked wonders against the Riptides (which are amazingly resilent; one endured for three turns in close combat with a soul grinder). The Rune Priest also had a Chooser of the Slain and was firing an Icarus Lascannon. 

 

Murderous Hurricane decimated squad after squad of Fire Warriors and especially kroot. Living Lightning brought a wound to a Riptide and killed a battlesuit... from across the board. 

 

All in all, brother Ramses, you are correct: The Pathfinders were a constant pain in my side, but they find behind a hill with the broadside, and so I couldn't kill more than half of them. If you have the opportunity to kill them, take it. They should take priority over almost everything else. 

[ZayWolf]

Like jarl Deathwolf said its about positioning and the more pods you have the less likely your guys will be interceptored down. and if a unit uses intercept it cant fire the next turn aka his turn

[Grey Mage]

The best way to kill tau pathfinders? Its the best way to kill all non battlesuits: Whirlwinds.

[Forté]

Look out for the Recon Drone too or you could find something outflanking and unleashing something nasty at your backdoor.

[Squark]

I'd say as far as Tau go...

 

-Be aware of interceptor. It does have its disadvantages, but it can still really wreck your day if you don't plan for it. Conversely, you might be able to trick some players by dropping a distraction that can soak up a fair bit of fire, leaving the rest of your army room to breath for a turn.

-Multi-overwatch can be very problematic as it will increase the range you need to charge to get into close combat. Consequently, choosing the opportune time to assault is important.

-As far as Grey Hunters and Fire warriors trading shots go,  the Grey Hunters will likely kill 2 fire warriors for every grey hunter who falls (If the opponent is markerlighting their fire warriors, you've either already killed the bigger threats, the player has really screwed up their markerlight priority, or they're using the pathfinders as a crutch). Given that they've got 2.5 Fire warriors for each grey Hunter you've got, point-wise (Before you buy wargear, I might add), this, without proper tactics, is a losing battle.

-A lot of Tau players over-rely on marker lights. I'm not saying that they're not relevant to the Tau army, but there are a lot of players who use them as a crutch. Shooting that crutch out from under them, thus, is a very sound strategy.

-Since the devilfish is still overpriced, Tau mech will be a rare thing. Which puts Guard Allies for Vendettas at a lower priority than they are against other armies (Where mech is still king)

-The broadside change has severely altered the Tau's approach to hard anti-tank, forcing them to rely on hammerheads and Fusion weapons. Landraiders are once again useful against these guys.

[Ghostwolfalpha]

A fenrisian wolf screen seems like a good option for charging a gunline. They take the brunt of casualties or offer cover to grey hunters behind them, causing the tau to use up markerlight hits to negate the cover or shoot the less valuble wolves. If they do ignore the wolves and focus on the GHs, they they hit the line and semd them running. Also good for taking all that overwatch for the GHs behindb them. Just need to avoid those overcharged ion weapons that have blasts or the bomber.

[Squark]

Yeah, facing multiple assaults in the same turn does tend to mess up Tau overwatch planning.

[Grimtooth]

Rune Priest running Storm Caller behind a Fenrisian Wolf screen seems like a nice deception ploy to get Tau to markerlight the wolves to remove the cover save.

[Apahllo]

JAWS OF THE WORLD WOLF!!!!

Massed infinity in fire warriors, riptides, crisis. All tau fall to the jaws and its a useful power in all games. I've gotten 2 rip tides and an ethereal with one well placed drop pod. Put him with some combi flamers and rake up those kill.

Other than the most awesome psychic power in the game, I plan on making some whirlwinds, they are gonna be sweet against everything and cheep!

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Land speeders with heavy flamers or heavy bolters?

Also, Assault cannon or heavy flamer on TDA Wolf guard units?

[Squark]

Land speeders with heavy flamers or heavy bolters?

Also, Assault cannon or heavy flamer on TDA Wolf guard units?

The former will get intercepted if it deep strikes, or blown apart by Fire Warriors if it doesn't.

 

Also, AP4 is in general unimpressive against the blue space commies, since they need to cling to cover anyway to make it harder for you to assault them.

[Grimtooth]

I am almost leaning exclusively towards a unit of Wolf Scouts to take out Pathfinders if I am going to face Tau.  It almost seems like a tailor made fluff perspective of recon forces battling recon forces in which the Wolf Scouts look to be the stronger force at sneakiness.

 

The other two options Skyclaws/Swiftclaws really intrigue me as well when armed with flamers because they have the mobility to then continue on effectively against the rest of the Tau forces, with a nice Hammer of Wrath hit on the charge alone probably wiping a whole frontline of Tau off the board.

[d503]

The best way to kill tau pathfinders? Its the best way to kill all non battlesuits: Whirlwinds.

This. Whirlwinds are marines single greatest weapon against non-marines, as they kill troops on objectives without allowing cover saves. No one ever takes them though, as marines only ever fight marines :p

[Ghostwolfalpha]

 

 

 

The best way to kill tau pathfinders? Its the best way to kill all non battlesuits: Whirlwinds.

This. Whirlwinds are marines single greatest weapon against non-marines, as they kill troops on objectives without allowing cover saves. No one ever takes them though, as marines only ever fight marines :p

They are the only ones worthy to die at our hands. Hehe

 

Whirlwinds seem like a big gamble with AV11 and the lack of mobility. One seeker missile or crisis suit will make short work of it, plus fire warriors can glance it to death after jumping out of their devilfish.

 

I have a grudge against skyclaws. They always seem to let me down. I love jump pack units and bought a small detachment of BA so that I could use them. Skyclaws are a point sink as you want them to take an HQ with them and they need to get up in peoples faces to be of value, but always get shot to pieces before they get there. Then your hitting the line with 3 models, which is plenty to make tau run, but I feel like they never pull their weight. Maybe its time to put the pretty boys aside and go for some psychos with beards and beer. It may also be that my opponents usually know how much I love my jump packs, so they shoot them to break my morale.

[Squark]

Whirlwinds seem like a big gamble with AV11 and the lack of mobility. One seeker missile or crisis suit will make short work of it, plus fire warriors can glance it to death after jumping out of their devilfish.

 

 

I'll agree with you on the seeker missiles, but no one in their right mind takes devilfish. In the previous 'dex, they'd been relegated to a tax for each Pathfinder squad; with that gone, and without the price drop they needed, they've gone the way of Vespid, Justicar Thrawn, and Ogryn.

[Ghostwolfalpha]

My best friend uses a single fire warriors squad in a devil fish for late game shenanigans or support where it is needed. It has been a giant pain in my side many times. Honestly, I sometimes think he uses it just to see the look on my face. I have yet to play him with the new dex, so we will see. I want to like whirlwinds, but they almost never make it past turn 3. Flyers usually blow it up or a unit depstrikes near it and empties there guns into it. With the tau, I am more worried about the latter.

[Grey Mage]

 

Whirlwinds seem like a big gamble with AV11 and the lack of mobility. One seeker missile or crisis suit will make short work of it, plus fire warriors can glance it to death after jumping out of their devilfish.

 

 

So... parkem where theyll have cover, or fire indirectly, or drop pod into the enemies face and give him something scarier to worry about.

 

Its not hard to make them work, and for 85pts its not a big investment.

[Squark]

My best friend uses a single fire warriors squad in a devil fish for late game shenanigans or support where it is needed. It has been a giant pain in my side many times. Honestly, I sometimes think he uses it just to see the look on my face. I have yet to play him with the new dex, so we will see. I want to like whirlwinds, but they almost never make it past turn 3. Flyers usually blow it up or a unit depstrikes near it and empties there guns into it. With the tau, I am more worried about the latter.

Wha? Tau can't deep strike. Err... I mean they can't deep strike safely. It's downright suicidal for them, and suits are far to precious to send on suicide runs.

 

As to a single devilfish... I don't see how Tau have enough armor redundancy, especially with the nerf to disruption fields, to keep a lone Devilfish alive.

 

And 1 turn of shooting is all it should take with a Whirlwind vs. Pathfinders, anyway.

[ErikThunderclaws]

Hi!

Have you think about putting near the Whirlwind the Chooser of the Slain of one Rune Priest? Maybe it can save the day...

[Ghostwolfalpha]

It does stop pathfinders and kroot very well. It may not be an issue with the new dex or edition. Then again having him pour firepower into my whirlwind will allow my GH to move up and attack the gunline.

[Emperors Immortals]

I play Tau ( er, strictly to learn how to kill them better - yes!) and the new Dex has brought quite a few changes, most of them good!!

 

Riptides will die pretty quick to Termies in CC - even a LoneWOlf took down mine.

 

PAthfinders getting Scouted is a concern, though i tend to take drone squad for extra ML, and overwatch can be a problem - though the multi squad charge is mitigated somewhat by 60+ overwatch plasma shots and a squad of suits nearby.

 

Honestly, im scared of pods the most - 3 of them with just gray hunters 1st turn in my backzone can easily wreck my gameplan.

 

Also, whirlwinds are truly terrifying, my eldar die quickly to them as well.

[Grimtooth]

I am still loathe to drop pods until I see just how packed my local meta is with interceptor. If I can get by handicapping a Tau army by surgical removal of Pathfinders early in a game, I think the normal wash, rinse, repeat method of killing Tau will be just fine. I would even go as far as getting tied up with the Troop elements of a Tau force and not even worry about Riptides until after you tabled the Troops.