How to beat Tau (campaign)

[hengrid]

Hello fellow Brothers,

I would like to ask how to beat Tau, because I lost twice against them in our campaign. We have specific rules I will post you right under this foreword and I desperately need a help.

 

I can have these slots in my army:

1 HQ2-4 Troops1 Fast attack1 Elites

And because of the amount of my planets (conquered during the campaign) I can add:

+1 Heavy support+1 HQ+1 Troops

Would it be possible to help me please.

 

Your sincerely hengrid

[Apahllo]

Spacewolves allow you to take 2 HQ units per HQ slot, so right off the bat, this is an obvious advantage. but using multiple heros is going to be difficult because of the lack of solid support(only 1 of the main support choices you can field per slot). fortunately this opens up a unique opportunity to have an epic character supporting each part of your army. other than that, before knowing more about your battle(points allowed, predetermined mission/objectives and such), it looks like your going to be relying on good old grey hunters bringing the fight to the enemy.

 

i have pummeled some fish recently and it all about 'cutting of the head of the snake'. so with more information brother, i can lend you more precise bits of my knowledge. also, this campaign looks cool and i hope your doing well to honor the chapter.

[hengrid]

Well,

the points are my 1000 against his 1200. I am choosing the mission and battlefield. So this is in my favour, but the point difference is quite big and he plays really shooty. I am so afraid of his plasma/rocket suits and his Commander.

 

hengrid

[Squark]

Well, first off, I'd point out how messing with the force org chart really, really messes up the game. Giving people too many or too few slots can really, really screw some armies over, but leave others perfectly fine (You're probably better off here, since Tau lack a decent midfield troop choice). But, eh, you don't need my rant about that.

 

General anti-Tau tactica;

 

-Without allies, Tau struggle to take objectives. If you end up with more objectives on your side of the board, digging in and holding them can be a valid strategy if it isn't crippling you offensively.

-While they're as squishy as ever in assault, their overwatch tricks allow them to increase the distance your hunters will need to cover to actually get into assault. With that in mind, pick your assaults carefully.

-Interceptor can be devastating to drop pod lists... But inexperience Tau commanders can also really screw themselves over by overextending in that regard, as things that fire during the interceptor "phase" (for lack of any better term) don't get to shoot during the next shooting phase. Play your cards right, and you might get him to waste shooting at something durable but expendable.

-Most Tau players are overreliant on markerlights. Killing the only squad of pathfinders he has will make your job a lot easier. (Granted, if he's a strong enough player, he shouldn't bring more than 1 squad of pathfinders ever anyway, and with only a single heavy support slot, he might well make the smart choice and bring a flier instead).

-Tau hard anti-tank is now limited to Hammerheads (of which he can only take one if any, persumably), and fusion blasters (which are probably mounted on pirahnas). the Land raider, as such, is a better choice than usual. But, see my comment about tailoring, below. Also, it isn't worth giving up the HS slot.

 

How much "foreknowledge" will your Wolves have of the attack? If they have ample time to prepare, some tailoring might not be totally unreasonable (Although, thinking about it, you're probably still better off bringing a pack of Long Fangs to blow his suits to bits over bringing a whirlwind for toasting Pathfinders). But excessive tailoring, or if this is supposed to be a surprise attack, will draw you a lot of flak.

[Apahllo]

ouch... its gonna be a death or glory game my friend. abusing his deployment is gonna be the biggest advantage. but this small points number means your lords will be even better.

 

also fish are slow and jaws is super kick ass against slow armies :) do you have drop pods? if you do id plan on taking at least two runepriests with jaws and the other powers should be the 2 wolf spirits and murderous hurricane. drop pods with jaws will let you settle that points difference, especially if you get his HQ unit. linning up the attack from jaws is vital because it can hit multiple units and tau are very unlikely to pass the stat test because I2. 

 

plasma is also useful against crisis suits but they are only going to be a small problem, firewarriors are not to be underestimated as they can lay down some serious amounts of wounds and really good range. also keep things simple with your squads, dont go for things like PW or wolf standards in your GH squads, just guns. space wolves own the midfield and i have yet to fight an army who can beat me when i get close to doubletap and charge. combat is where your going to win this game though so maybe a hero with a frost blade and storm shield or on a thunderwolf can do some good.

 

ill be back in a bit with a list or 2 to give you some ideas on how to corner this tau player.

[Squark]

Really depends on the list he brings. Drop pods could be disastrous if he brings an interceptor heavy list (and knows what he's doing). But yeah, Rune Priests are going to be nightmarish here.

 

Other comments; Empty Drop pods with Deathwind missile launchers may actually be a valid choice here. You can drop them in place to block line of sight, and he's faced with the choice of shooting it or letting it drop pie plates that wound his troops on a 2+. If you bothered to magnetize them, now might be the time to break them out. Plus, if he's light on interceptor units, you've now got a delivery system for your army.

[Grimtooth]

Whirlwind in the empty heavy slot seems like it would be nice if he is shooty heavy and not so much mech.

[Apahllo]

1k points if a tough one. make sure you bring enough grey hunters and some rune priests but the important thing is guiding him out of position with pressure. drop pods are the best way to do this.

here is the best 1k i could think of against a tau.

 

2 stock rune priests. jaws/murderous hurricane, jaws/fury of the wolf spirits. 200

 

dread with an assault cannon and heavy flamer in a droppod 150

 

grey hunters(10) with 2 plasma guns. 160

 

grey hunters(9) with 1 plasma gun and a droppod 170

 

grey hunters(9) with 1 flamer and a droppod 180

 

long fangs(6) with 5 missle launchers

 

tactics.. drop the two 9 man squads with rune priests to use jaws and cut swaths of opponents support. smart drops are not in his face and get multiple units with jaws(force LD checks and the tau will run away!). the drop dread is the secert weapon as the heavy flamer will melt away his troops with no armor or cover saves. lastly you have the 10 man foot sloggers and long fangs, use them to support each other and pressure him into other units.

 

best of luck to ya!!

[Squark]

Just a heads up, though; If you come up against a guard or Necron player who has a bit of a reputation for ruthlessness later during this campaign, just go something silly and fun to play. With that Force org chart, Guard and Necron Scythewing can break the game open like a bunch of overripe fruit.

[hengrid]

It is pretty sound to me to use the Drop Pods, I can surely proxy them for the first time and then get them if they prove their usefullness. I used to play mechwolves, but is it not as good as it used to be with the new edition.

 

Is there any possibility how to build mechwolves against TAU?

 

Thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it.

 

hengrid

[Squark]

1st off; Mechwolves is not bad, by any means. Vehicles have become more glass cannons (They're a bit more fragile, but while they're alive they're more effective due to glancing hits having no immediate effect compared to stunning/shaking). Your wolves should hop out of the transport when they reach midfield (Which is to say, exactly what you realisticly use an APC for), but that's the biggest shift for mech wolves.

 

As far as mechanized armies and Tau go... The threats to your rhinos are probably going to come from his various suits.

 

-Battlesuits are packing 3 Twin-linked Missile Launchers + one extra weapon each (Plasma rifle or Flamer, most likely) for ~160 points. He's got 1 squad of these, or two if he takes bodyguards (Again, the poor Tau are really getting screwed over by this wonky force org chart). A threat, certainly, but one you've likely had to deal with in the form of mirror matches against fellow wolves. If they're sitting in cover, play against them like you would more a devastators squad. If they're trying to use Jump shoot Jump against you, on the other hand, he has to be a lot more careful with his positioning, as one volley of krak missiles will end this squad without the cover saves.

-If he's been lucky enough to get a desperately needed heavy support slot, He's also nabbing a trio of Broadsides or a hammerhead. Broadsides pack what are basically twin-linked AP 1 krak missiles now- I'm not sure how the smart missiles work, or how their prices vary exactly, but long fangs are still packing more shots for fewer points. If they've still got the 2+ save, though, you're probably going to want plasmaguns for these guys, although Krak missiles will pop a suit in a single wound if they've still got the 2nd wound (Confession; I have yet to get a look at the new 'dex in person. I'm going off advice for Tau players I've gotten from other people).

-The Hammerhead, on the other hand, is relatively unchanged. A single TL S10 AP 1 shot from across the board, or a blast template (the latter is an upgrade, but a reasonably cheap one).

 

Pop smoke at the right times with your rhinos, and take good use of cover, and some of the rhinos should get there.

 

Since you are getting to choose deployment and mission type...

 

-You definately do not want Hammer and Anvil. Hammer and Anvil favors gunline deployments and fliers... Neither of which you have. The choice of Dawn of War or.. The other one probably comes down to personal preference. Diagonals might be a slight advantage. I'm not sure, though.

-Mission-wise, his troops struggle to take objectives, so Id say Big Guns Never Tire or just normal objectives is probably the way to go.

[eyeslikethunder]

The other one is vanguard strike I would agree with going with big guns never tire 6 objectives exploits the tau weaknesses

 

You say what extra slots your getting but what extra slots is he getting? As I notice you don't get any HS by default.

 

Also what do you have available to you and what does he have model wise?

[Squark]

Just going to say; if he didn't get an extra elite slot or a heavy support slot... he's up excrement river without a paddle.

 

 

The Scouring's another possibility, I guess, although scoring pathfinders might be able to snag an objective that way. On the other hand, they're going to have to infiltrate to get an objective other than one he'd normally have, and that could put them unsupported when you charge.

[Apahllo]

The problem with a mechanized list against tau is the fire warrior will reliably knock out those transport if the crisis/broadsides don't. The high yield missile pod is deadly with 8 twin linked shots at s7and s5. Another problem with mech is that your giving him first blood because tau will have no problem taking out at least one if not all before you can get close enough to be effective, unless you take a landraider which could do wonders against a list without a hammerhead, but those 18 inch meltas are deadly because the suits can jump forward and then back to deal with that but if he's taking the fire knife(misslepod/plasma) they will be useless against it.

 

As for the mission layout being your choice and droppods not being available. A mechanized list would be perfect for the relic since only troops can grab it and fire warriors aren't going to have fun breaking cover to retrieve it. 2 rhinos and 2 razorbacks would be enough for you to seize the relic. Still, abusing the 2 for 1 HQ thing is going to be your best offensive advantage and the jaws of the world wolf will be your ace in the whole should he get close enough to take the relic. Your grey hunter should have no problem taking and holding it while your rune priest can snipe his warlord(no saves what so ever, no armor/inv/Look out sir/fnp) and boom, the game is yours.

 

Playing that way will take great concentration and dedication for that objective, but its a solid victory plan against a bigger army. Your mid game decisions will decide this game, remember what you can do and make sure what you do has the biggest effect on his ability to stop your plan of grabbing the objective.

 

A land raider could also win you that game due to your opponent not having a way to deal with it and you put yourself in an unbreakable bunker with the objective.

[Lysere]

Looking at the force org slots I can see one big advantage for you over the Tau, he lacks room to make full use of interceptor teams. Only suits can take it and that takes up a slot, so the best unit for such a role is a riptide. That is only one unit though and can be mitigated by deploying spread out from the pod and as close to the enemy gunline as you can.

 

Drop pods will always be a great counter for Tau because it instantly negates their superior range and allows you to open fire before he does. Markerlights are easy to eliminate so not much issue in that department, Whirlwind firing the ignores cover shot will deal with them easily, and any other lights will be buried behind bodies. If you want to assault hit them in several directions with several units at once. This will minimize his overwatch options and allow you to tie up multiple units.

 

He lacks room for an elite suit list so I'm sure he will pack infantry, and if he's smart an ethereal since they make Fire warriors absolutely ruthless. Counter this aiming for his squad, or dividing the gunline. Terminators are not suggested due to sheer weight of fire the Tau can put out up close. I do however suggest a Land Raider of some kind if you can take one.

 

Also let me point out Crisis suits are immune to JAWs so if he's smart he will make a suit his commander.

[Loki-LaughingDeath]

How are Crisis suits immune to Jaws? They are neither vehicles or artillery soo that would make them fair game.

[Lysere]

How are Crisis suits immune to Jaws? They are neither vehicles or artillery soo that would make them fair game.

 

Jump and Jet pack infantry are also immune to JAWs. Unless they removed that Via FAQ that hasn't changed since the day the Space Wolf codex came out.

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

 

How are Crisis suits immune to Jaws? They are neither vehicles or artillery soo that would make them fair game.

 

Jump and Jet pack infantry are also immune to JAWs. Unless they removed that Via FAQ that hasn't changed since the day the Space Wolf codex came out.

 

That was last edition.

 

This edition the rule book specifically states that jump units are not unit types in and of themselves, but rather additions to their normal type.

 

Aka, there's no such thing as a "jump" unit. There IS however "jump infantry" which is just a modified version of infantry. Jaws works on all jump/jetpacks.

 

Page 47 of the rulebook for reference, bolded parts at the top of the "Jump Units" and "Jet Pack Units" entries.

[Lysere]

 

 

How are Crisis suits immune to Jaws? They are neither vehicles or artillery soo that would make them fair game.

 

Jump and Jet pack infantry are also immune to JAWs. Unless they removed that Via FAQ that hasn't changed since the day the Space Wolf codex came out.

 

That was last edition.

 

This edition the rule book specifically states that jump units are not unit types in and of themselves, but rather additions to their normal type.

 

Aka, there's no such thing as a "jump" unit. There IS however "jump infantry" which is just a modified version of infantry. Jaws works on all jump/jetpacks.

 

Page 47 of the rulebook for reference, bolded parts at the top of the "Jump Units" and "Jet Pack Units" entries.

 

Hmmm... Goes to show how many space wolf players are in my area. Still I think Jaws is the least efficient way of dealing with a Tau commander suit if he runs one, mainly because of his high mobility and easy access to S8 weapons with which to use against said Priest. Now if your expecting broadsides and can drop in that is an entirely different story. It also gives you the choice of good line ups for JAWs against everything else. Even better if he runs a riptide in his army.

[dswanick]

Never mind, found it.

[Blacksad]

 

 

 

How are Crisis suits immune to Jaws? They are neither vehicles or artillery soo that would make them fair game.

 

Jump and Jet pack infantry are also immune to JAWs. Unless they removed that Via FAQ that hasn't changed since the day the Space Wolf codex came out.

 

That was last edition.

 

This edition the rule book specifically states that jump units are not unit types in and of themselves, but rather additions to their normal type.

 

Aka, there's no such thing as a "jump" unit. There IS however "jump infantry" which is just a modified version of infantry. Jaws works on all jump/jetpacks.

 

Page 47 of the rulebook for reference, bolded parts at the top of the "Jump Units" and "Jet Pack Units" entries.

 

Hmmm... Goes to show how many space wolf players are in my area. Still I think Jaws is the least efficient way of dealing with a Tau commander suit if he runs one, mainly because of his high mobility and easy access to S8 weapons with which to use against said Priest. Now if your expecting broadsides and can drop in that is an entirely different story. It also gives you the choice of good line ups for JAWs against everything else. Even better if he runs a riptide in his army.

pod in during your movement phase, jaws during your shooting phase, which comes after your movement phase, and before his... commander is dead before he gets to shoot at you. 

[Lysere]

 

 

 

 

How are Crisis suits immune to Jaws? They are neither vehicles or artillery soo that would make them fair game.

 

Jump and Jet pack infantry are also immune to JAWs. Unless they removed that Via FAQ that hasn't changed since the day the Space Wolf codex came out.

 

That was last edition.

 

This edition the rule book specifically states that jump units are not unit types in and of themselves, but rather additions to their normal type.

 

Aka, there's no such thing as a "jump" unit. There IS however "jump infantry" which is just a modified version of infantry. Jaws works on all jump/jetpacks.

 

Page 47 of the rulebook for reference, bolded parts at the top of the "Jump Units" and "Jet Pack Units" entries.

 

Hmmm... Goes to show how many space wolf players are in my area. Still I think Jaws is the least efficient way of dealing with a Tau commander suit if he runs one, mainly because of his high mobility and easy access to S8 weapons with which to use against said Priest. Now if your expecting broadsides and can drop in that is an entirely different story. It also gives you the choice of good line ups for JAWs against everything else. Even better if he runs a riptide in his army.

pod in during your movement phase, jaws during your shooting phase, which comes after your movement phase, and before his... commander is dead before he gets to shoot at you. 

 

Potentially, this also factors in him not having interceptor and yet having his commander on the board, neither if which you can be sure of until deployment, plus that could leave you in the open. A drop team with a pair of melta guns can be just as brutal if used right and instead save Jaws for hitting a large line of models such as broadside teams and any adjacent units. One of his warlord traits he can end up with makes the commander great in reserves, either special character suit can automatically start off the table, and two of the traits he might get have no real use against wolves. So you might nab the VP and his warlord trait, but his bodyguard will probably go unscathed because it's easy to spread out, and they can be just as scary as the commander if he wants them to be. Yeah they not BS 5 but they could punch like a Railgun while being tough as nails.

 

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but don't think it's your best option. A line of forced Initiative tests is more dangerous to a gunline than a commander suit. Now if he somehow leaves you a chance to hit both then I would suggest doing just that, otherwise go for something in the gunline, or a riptide since if you don't it'll just ruin your day.

[Blacksad]

noone is saying you should take a Rune Priest with Jaws only for the commander. You're preaching to the choir m8 ;)

[Apahllo]

so i played against tau this morning and i got to say a heavy flamer dread and one a wolf guard did short work on fire warriors. jaws literally melts them away from fire warriors to riptides (thats 4 and counting on turn 1 with jaws!!!). murderous hurricane also did wonders against steathsuits today as well. 

 

if you optimize your deployment and hit hard, they are done for. one thing is certain when battling tau, do not try to walk up to them because you wont make it.

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

I like putting Jaws on a Rune Priest that is not the warlord. I try to run a Wolf Lord and a Rune Priest in the same list.