My theory about the two missing Primarchs

[Wulf Vengis]

I feel they destroyed each other. Primarchs II and XI traveled together in the earliest days of the crusade (perhaps even preofficial crusade). They fight many wars together and many great honors were won by their alliance. But somewhere they encountered something dark, something treacherous, something chaotic. Their orders were to eliminate this unknown force with extreme prejudice. Primarch II took to these new orders without pause whilst XI felt the orders to be extreme. Animosity began to grow between these two brothers and their legions. This lead to XI outright refusing direct orders from big E which leads II be ordered to sanction XI and bring him back into line. All out war breaks out within the system the two are currently in, this war leaves the system decimated. XI watches as all he believed burns and lay in ruins at the order of his father, the one whom he believed was building a utopia, he is blind to the role he played in this chaos. II sees the carnage brought on by XIs supposed betrayal, worlds lay in ruins, a system is dying around him and he is unable to see how his actions worked to drive this forward. It is uncertain who initiated the final plan that would erase these two once proud and noble warriors from all imperial history, but in a last ditch effort to stop the betrayal of Imperium or perhaps to stop the betrayal by the imperium someone put the sun into super nova and the entire system and both legions including all records carried by them and the truth of what really happened here was lost from history forever.

 

The Malal theory at its best. No one knows who was the traitor for sure. The absolute destruction of eachother and their records left it in doubt so what little info the imperium had was stricken from the records.

[AlabasterKnight]

I have a different theory which bears out and has a whole degree of really sensible fluff (I have pages that I share with people who play with me in person, I won't post them on the web) and really neat nuances. I'm not going to bother disclosing it here, come to Arizona and game with me, I'll happily share it; else you'll have to wait until I can get the Black Library to accept a manuscript.

 

However, a few assumptions are being made out of dialogue that ADB warned against using as 'proof', that is to say, viewpoints in prose from individual characters are only perceptions of those characters. This is including the II and XI's Primarch brethren.

 

Whatever happened to the II and XI it can be said only two things conclusively:

1. The Emperor knows for certain what their fate was, and

 

2. NO ONE ELSE DOES.

 

Not Malcador, not any of the Primarchs, not and of the High Lords, and likely any other entity in the 40k universe who may have known have long since perished. Malcador would have been easily advised what happened to them by the Emperor in confidence, but likely was not actually a witness, so the Emperor would have told him what  he wanted to hear, so anything that even Malcador says is utter HEARSAY. So until a brave author tackles the subject with certainty and creates a plausible and entertaining story that actually adds something to the universe that has a reasonable chance to improve their market share, the explanation will remain clouded to allow people such as myself the freedom to craft our own legends!

 

Cheers!!!

[Demus Ragnok]

I have a different theory which bears out and has a whole degree of really sensible fluff (I have pages that I share with people who play with me in person, I won't post them on the web) and really neat nuances. I'm not going to bother disclosing it here, come to Arizona and game with me, I'll happily share it; else you'll have to wait until I can get the Black Library to accept a manuscript.

 

However, a few assumptions are being made out of dialogue that ADB warned against using as 'proof', that is to say, viewpoints in prose from individual characters are only perceptions of those characters. This is including the II and XI's Primarch brethren.

 

Whatever happened to the II and XI it can be said only two things conclusively:

1. The Emperor knows for certain what their fate was, and

 

2. NO ONE ELSE DOES.

 

Not Malcador, not any of the Primarchs, not and of the High Lords, and likely any other entity in the 40k universe who may have known have long since perished. Malcador would have been easily advised what happened to them by the Emperor in confidence, but likely was not actually a witness, so the Emperor would have told him what he wanted to hear, so anything that even Malcador says is utter HEARSAY. So until a brave author tackles the subject with certainty and creates a plausible and entertaining story that actually adds something to the universe that has a reasonable chance to improve their market share, the explanation will remain clouded to allow people such as myself the freedom to craft our own legends!

 

Cheers!!!

If none of the primarchs knew what happened why did they swear oaths not to speak about it?

[Conn Eremon]

And why do they, the Primarchs and Astartes, talk about them occasionally?

[AlabasterKnight]

They know what they have been told; none have said they witnessed a thing.

That makes it speculation.

[Conn Eremon]

Dorn and Lorgar have both said things that heavily inferred to the contrary.

 

Not to mention what many fans now believe Russ had done.

[Dumah]

They know what they have been told; none have said they witnessed a thing.

That makes it speculation.

 

All due respect, but it sounds like you're speculating about speculation.

[AlabasterKnight]

 

They know what they have been told; none have said they witnessed a thing.

That makes it speculation.

 

All due respect, but it sounds like you're speculating about speculation.

 

Aren't we all?

[E.G.J.]

Dorn and Lorgar have both said things that heavily inferred to the contrary.

 

Not to mention what many fans now believe Russ had done.

 

Agreed on the first part.

 

For the second part, I know there are a lot of people out there who believe Russ did his whole executioner bit on them, but what is the actual evidence for this?

 

1)  Is it that the Wolves are referred to as the Emperor's Executioners?

 

2) Is it because Russ, when sent against the Thousand Sons, said it wasn't the first time he had done such a thing?

 

3) Have I missed something?

 

Number 1 and 2 don't really mean anything in the context of the missing primarchs.  If he really was "the Emps Executioner", having perpetrated a primarch killing would have cemented this in the minds of EVERYONE.  It would not simply be an allusion or something the Wolves prefer to see themselves as.  It would be cut and dry.  Also if Russ had killed one or both of the missing, wouldn't we expect it to come up in conversation between his brother primarchs.  Even if they had been forbidden to speak of II and XI, one would imagine that some primarchs, especially those that later turned traitor, would have had some colorful ways of describing Russ that need not necessarily mention the missing by name.  Kin-slayer, for example.  Or just plain murderer?  

 

Second, in the wake of the Night of the Wolf, Russ' statement that going after Magnus would not be the first time the Wolves had fought their brothers need not have anything to do with the missing primarchs at all, but could instead only refer to having fought Angron and the World Eaters.

 

Anywho, I haven't kept up to date with all the missing allusions as of late, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Conn Eremon]

That's why I said that many fans now believe he had done, not that he had done.

[E.G.J.]

That's why I said that many fans now believe he had done, not that he had done.

 

Ok, kewl.  I wasn't implying that you were, I was just curious if there had been any more allusions as to the whole Russ/Executioner thing than since last time I looked.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

That's why I said that many fans now believe he had done, not that he had done.

Ok, kewl. I wasn't implying that you were, I was just curious if there had been any more allusions as to the whole Russ/Executioner thing than since last time I looked.

Nope. Not anything concrete. Pretty much everything can be tied to Night of the Wolf or the DA fued, both of which I am positive all records have either been deleted or classified to keep the Imperium at large from finding out.