How to mobilize a chaos force?

[Roma]

After being certain I will start and making lists for about 5 armies, my gaze falls upon you my traitorus friends.

Single problem I see, same as many other armies: How do you move around the board?

 

Rhinos took an insane nerf, how would you rate mech lists?

Footslogging is dangerous and slow, rate?

Land raiders are expensive, rate?

 

Best option to me seems huron, a dark apostle, and 2x35 cultist squads. IC join the squads, and infiltrate, then just walk up.

The rest would be the helldrakes, spawn, bikes and maulerfiends to reach the enemy with your cultists, and tie them up.

Finally your specialist units shoot up enemy vehicles+assault.

Is this a correct synopsis of how competetive chaos lists are build?

 

If not what is the best build? What units do you use for each build?

 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

As an individual unit, yes, Rhinos went down on the power scale because they become easier to destroy.  However, Rhinos used en masse remain decent.  Saturating the field with Rhinos, combined with the general decrease in anti-tank guns in the 6th edition metagame, generally means that some of your Rhinos will live long enough to deliver your squads on-target.  Obviously, there are cons to this kind of list-buildng (easy First Blood, increased number of kill points in your army, etc) but maintaining a fully mechanized force can overcome some of the problems Chaos Marines experience in this edition.

 

Land Raiders, on the other hand, are overpriced for what you get thanks to the lack of a PotMS analog.  They remain our only assault transport, but meltas still kill them fairly handily and Necrons just don't care about the AV14 that normally makes them so tough.

 

As you say, foot-slogging or taking Huron for cheap access to guaranteed Infiltration are probably the best bets (and certainly among the most popular).  The go-to choices for Troops for competitive play at this point are Plague Marines (who remain tough nuts to crack) and Noise Marines, who have some serious shooting power -- one can survive advancing on foot, and the other just wants to sit still and shoot anyway.

[the jeske]

combined with the general decrease in anti-tank guns in the 6th edition metagame,

even pre tau codex that wasnt true , because the game is [sadly] made in a such way that most anti tank weapons are good anti meq weapons at the same time . There is less melta around and less minimax squads [not saying non , there are still our pms, DA las minimax and BT can take them too] , but saying there is less shoting and less anti tank in an edition  where the already powerful shoting from 5th ed got buffed ,cant be true.

 

If you want to get accross the board you do 3 thinks . A bikes,drakes and stuff that moves fast are can infiltrate are your hammer B bullets have the fastest movment range of all units in the game , a plasma gun 'moves" 30" per turn few units can do that arent bullters themself C you can use ally to get fast moving or scouting or deep striking units.

[Roma]

What about using CC marines of some description in land raiders as the inflitrators instead? The rhinos at the back can fairly safely move up the field. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Jeske, by "anti-tank guns," I specifically mean melta and lascannons since they are basically dedicated to killing armor.  You're right in that other multi-role weapons -- like plasma and missiles -- still predominate.

[Azekai]

Autocannons are pretty common too, for those armies that can spam them, such as IG and CSM. It's so silly how taking armored transports is a bad idea in this game. Last time I checked, the military hasn't abandoned the use of APC's because of the presence of missile launchers.

[the jeske]

Jeske, by "anti-tank guns," I specifically mean melta and lascannons since they are basically dedicated to killing armor.  You're right in that other multi-role weapons -- like plasma and missiles -- still predominate.

IG are spaming the hell out of lascannons and considering they are top choice ally for more then a few builds , it is still a problem for low av stuff. Doesnt make av13+ builds non viable [like melta sometimes did in 5th] , but av11 are wee bit sad . And it double now with tau being an actualy good choice to pick [and cheap in points].

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

Jeske, by "anti-tank guns," I specifically mean melta and lascannons since they are basically dedicated to killing armor.  You're right in that other multi-role weapons -- like plasma and missiles -- still predominate.

IG are spaming the hell out of lascannons and considering they are top choice ally for more then a few builds , it is still a problem for low av stuff. Doesnt make av13+ builds non viable [like melta sometimes did in 5th] , but av11 are wee bit sad . And it double now with tau being an actualy good choice to pick [and cheap in points].

 

Spamming las?  Maybe in Eastern Europe, friend, but where I'm at the IG players are using plasma vets and autocannon teams.

[TheDevourer]

Same as Deus here.

[the jeske]

 

Spamming las?  Maybe in Eastern Europe, friend, but where I'm at the IG players are using plasma vets and autocannon teams.

las are run in euro land a lot . not just eastern europe. to make ac viable you would have to only play no slogger meq list and a lot of old 5th ed rhino rush lists . there would also have to be no necron [or only scyth wings] and no IG or av13+builds . then yes then IG could be runing AC and they would have to run melta for their vets like in 5th ed . which is all fine as a source of anti high av unless there are few tanks and opponents have no anti air. being armed with AC would also mean terrible match ups against tau .

[nurglez]

What about using CC marines of some description in land raiders as the inflitrators instead? The rhinos at the back can fairly safely move up the field. 

 

 

As the landraider isn't a dedicated transport to the marines you cant infiltrate it, if you bought them for terminators however that might be a possibility, but a landraider and a 6 man unit probably isn't that great an alpha strike, and is sinking a lot of points.

 

I don't play competitively, but I use a landraider and 2 rhinos at 1500 points. Sometimes the rhino gives up first blood and yes sometimes they have cost me the game (2 rhinos and my 2 cultist squads are 4 easy KP), however they have also given me a few extra turns of movement, cover, a close combat buffer and denied overwatch due to dirge casters. While the landraider isn't a great assault vehicle, it is still one, and it does provide some semi decent firepower (yes only the same as a havoc squad with a heavy bolter and 2 lascannons). How I use the raider depends on the mission and my opponent's force, sometimes charging it forwards, sometimes keeping it back for fire support.

 

I've surely lowered my anti armour 14 guns a bit, but still pack a few in (though not as many as I used to have at 1500 points).

[hornywingythingy]

 

 

 

 

Jeske, by "anti-tank guns," I specifically mean melta and lascannons since they are basically dedicated to killing armor. You're right in that other multi-role weapons -- like plasma and missiles -- still predominate.

IG are spaming the hell out of lascannons and considering they are top choice ally for more then a few builds , it is still a problem for low av stuff. Doesnt make av13+ builds non viable [like melta sometimes did in 5th] , but av11 are wee bit sad . And it double now with tau being an actualy good choice to pick [and cheap in points].

Spamming las? Maybe in Eastern Europe, friend, but where I'm at the IG players are using plasma vets and autocannon teams.

Also fairly common in uk, then again fw is allowed in lots of uk tournies (to 'balance' fliers,) so weapons platforms like sabers are really prevalent..

[D00M]

I think its a good idea to consider Forgeworld at this point as our troop deployment options in this edition compared to other armies are abysmal.

 

LAND RAIDER PROTEUS
Hard as nails landraider that can outflank and boosts reserves? YES PLEASE

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Tanks/LAND-RAIDER-PROTEUS.html

 

STORM EAGLE

Great transport aircraft we can use!!

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine_Aircraft/STORM_EAGLE.html

[Iron_Within]

I don't rate the Proteus on paper; it's not an assault vehicle and has reduced transport capacity. It's a weak overpriced fire support option, due to its weird anti-personal AV mix it's transport too small to make a dent. It's just a really overpriced way of getting something you can get with an aegis, unless you want maxed out Helldrakes and an aegis with a quad gun, I cannot see it's fit. 

[hornywingythingy]

Don't do fw, I'd have no rights to bitch about it if I used it, and most armies gain more useful stuff than chaos gets if you start playing fw.

[D00M]

I don't rate the Proteus on paper; it's not an assault vehicle and has reduced transport capacity. It's a weak overpriced fire support option, due to its weird anti-personal AV mix it's transport too small to make a dent. It's just a really overpriced way of getting something you can get with an aegis, unless you want maxed out Helldrakes and an aegis with a quad gun, I cannot see it's fit. 

 

I havent used it yet but i do intend to as soon as i can get a proxy landraider to use.

I think due to the limited transport capacity your going to be running it with small elite squads (Termicide + lord, plague marines.etc)

I think losing the assault ramp is a small price to pay for the advantages you gain while still being cheaper than a standard landraider. Being immune to melta is also a massive bonus for an AV14 vehicle (its like the old Necron monolith rules!)

 

But in theory:

- You can scout with it at the start of the game taking the midfield and immediatly disembark a squad turn one giving a squad a free 12 inch movement.

- move it forward as fast as possible shutting down deep striking units within 24

- You can outflank it into your opponents deployment zone and shoot twin lascannons at the enemys side armour which is HUGE and the unload a small squad with a powerhouse lord and melta guns to further disrupt armour emplacments.

 

These are some great tatical deployments options right here while taking up an Elite slot which is our most under utilised slot. When i read the rules for it i was almost tempted to call OP.

 

 

[Malach Adonai]

I like the idea of using the Proteus. While expensive, maybe it could be used to deliver minmaxed melta-havocs or chosen?

[Tenebris]

Two Land Riders, one with Khârn and his Berzerkers buddies, the other with a strong Terminator unit. Use the rest of the army in support so that the two vehicles reach the enemy lines. On the Rhinos, if you plan to mechanize your army do it in style and mechanize all its elements. Since we don't have other transport options the only tactic that we can employ is to saturate the board with Rhinos and play attrition. Eventually something will get trough. The question should be what should you mechanize?

 

A number of units can have some benefit from a mechanized list, Khorne Berzerkers, Plasma Havocs or Chosen, Noise Marines just come on the top while a number of other combinations should provide some results. The trick is to simply swarm your adversary with a Rhino rush, everything else is a liability at best for a mechanized list. Cheap Bolt Pistol/Chainsword CSM could be a good zerg unit for a mechanized force. 

 

Oh, I think we should consider the Land Riders only as the nice art in our book, they are too expensive for our already limited forces. 

[nurglez]

Any considered the landraider spartan?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Tanks/SPARTAN_ASSAULT_TANK.html

Ok its experimental, so probably wouldn't be used in tournaments which allow forgeworld, but its a beast, able to tranport 25 models and packing 2 quad linked lascannons and 5hp, shame the chaos version can't get immune to melta upgrade, and ofc loses out on potms, but it does look very nice.

[D00M]

Any considered the landraider spartan?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Tanks/SPARTAN_ASSAULT_TANK.html

Ok its experimental, so probably wouldn't be used in tournaments which allow forgeworld, but its a beast, able to tranport 25 models and packing 2 quad linked lascannons and 5hp, shame the chaos version can't get immune to melta upgrade, and ofc loses out on potms, but it does look very nice.

 

The Spartan does look awesome on paper

 

Almost...too awesome...

 

25 model capacity?, 5HP?, QUAD LASCANNONS??? For a 50pts increase over a standard landraider!?!?

 

Id kinda feel bad using it against an opponent and im sure many would cry cheese. Does make 20 man units of marines very viable though!

[nurglez]

you can also put a multi melta on it, cos why the hell not :D