What is the best HQ at 1850?

[Sandviper]

I am taking a sorcerer because they are easily worth 165 points when built. But for a second HQ I cant decide. I was leaning between abbadon and a decked out DP, both at 265 but any advice or experience is appreciated.

[Lootzer]

Last time playing @ 1850 I was running Sorc lv3 with jump -pack and Brand and Prince With Wings, PA and Black Mace. Seems to be soild choice at least for me.

[Sandviper]

The DP didnt get double toughed by any str 10? Thats my only concern with the DP

[Lootzer]

I was not playing against the new Tau yet so there was not much S10 on the board (if any). As for shooters maybe lone vindicator (which can't shoot at swooping DP anyway). CC ones were I think only Dreadkinght and SM Dreadnaught but you can easily avoid unwanted CC with flying DP.

edit:
aahhh I forgot - there were also DA knights that can get single S10 or smth.

[Roma]

DP seems to far expensive and squishy to me. I would vote:

 

Huron: Decent wargear, amazing ability.

Dark Apostle: only when taking huron+cultists.

Warpsmith:manning a quad in a armor list.

 

Generic lord: any other situation.

[the jeske]

depands on what you want to build. but going by best=>weakest builds . it would be nurgle lords , hurons , then khorn lords , then DP , then sorc and finaly tyfus. for csm it is sometimes better to take a second HQ from the demon dex at least for some builds . rest depands on what units are taken[are there 2 biker units , are cult units taken etc].

[Roma]

Come to think about it, a foot lord with good choices is around 140 points, aka 1= marines. Is it worth taking him if you already have a mandatory HQ?

 

A mounted lord on a bike/steed can travel with fast squads and is killerier/tougher, is he worth it?

[the jeske]

in most builds a biker lords is the first HQ chaos player pick , so yeah he is worth taking.

[Sandviper]

Well I have ran a juggernaught of khorne with AoBF at lower point ranges with Spawn.

[Sception]

Generally speaking, bike lord first.  Either nurgle (fisticlaws, burning brand) if you want plague marines (and in a no-allies list, you probably do) or khorne (with AoBF) if you don't.

 

Lords are fearless & confer fearless.  They're affordable, they can take on a wide range of enemies in close combat, and when bike mounted they're fast enough to get there and tough enough to take some punishment in return.  Nurgle lords specifically are required to gain access to what is probably the best troop option in-codex.  Bike lords and bike squads are both great and work well together.  Jump lords are less tough, their escorts more fragile and less effective, and as such are sort of the same but inferior.  Foot lords are either forced to hoof it - not generally the best option for a melee character - or ride in one of our rather uninspired transport options.  There's something to be said for juggerlords with spawn, or for slaaneshi daemon mounts outflanking a unit of your choice, but as a general rule 'on a bike, with a bike squad' is the 'correct' way to field them, and in particular with the marks and equipment mentioned above.

 

Princes are more expensive and more vulnerable than lords, but with a mace and wings they also hit much harder and much faster.  They're a much more situational choice.  Does your opponent have a lot of S10 or outright ID they can point your way?  Do you have effective LoS blocking terrain to screen your approach?  With princes, there's a lot of key factors to their effectiveness that are out of your control.  That said, if circumstances are in their favor they can be absolutely dominating and a ton of fun.  While the mace is by far the best weapon for them, don't discount the possibility of running AoBF on a second winged prince.

 

Huron is a great utility piece.  Not as tough, fast, or killy as a bike lord, but his fixed warlord trait enables a range of unique army builds - something our book can otherwise be lacking in without resorting to allies - and unlike the similarly endowed Ahriman, Huron is still decent in melee and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

Sorcerers can make decent affordable beatsticks with biomancy, or respectable infantry support with telepathy.  Noise Marine heavy Slaanesh lists also might like a sorcerer or two with their aligned lore, but apart from that undivided bio or telepathy sorcerers are generally superior to their marked peers.  If giong for the biomancy beatstick, you should consider taking a bike and sticking them with their own or their lord's bike squad, so you can actually get that melee punch where its needed.  In the latter case, they can hang out with your infantry walking up the midfield.  Note that 'undivided lv3 telepethy sorcerer' is probably the best use for the starter box lord model, as actual lords don't like our sword options and don't like to hoof it.

 

Typhus, like Huron, is sort of a list unto himself, allowing both zombies and plagues as troops, and forcing you to try and figure out how to use a crazy expensive, crazy slow melee brute.  Unlike Huron, he's not cheap, and sadly he no longer has the Tally to work with.  Still, Typhus lists are alright, but that's what they are  - Typhus lists.  You don't 'add' Typhus to another list.  He's your first HQ and you build your whole army around him, or you aren't running him at all.

 

Abaddon, like Typhus, is a complete monster in melee, but costs a bazillion points and has a ridiculously tiny threat radius.  Unlike Typhus, Abby doesn't make points efficient and durable options like zombies and plague marines troops.  Instead he makes chosen troops, and while a squad or two of plasma chosen can be an interesting option, models that average over 20 points a model but die like regular old 13 point chaos marines do not make a stable backbone for an army, especially one that's already dropping 250 point on an HQ, plus more for whatever escort & delivery service you hire for him.

 

Ahriman, like Huron, has built in infiltration tricks.  He's also a quality sorcerer, which presents some interesting options.  On the other hand, he costs just a ton of points.  If you're trying to make all tzeentch-marked list with thousand sons, then you include him, because infiltrate is worth a lot of points to them, and you're shooting yourself in the foot with your theme anyway, so you might as well go all out.  Otherwise, just take Huron if you want to infiltrate.

 

Khârn, like Abby and Typhus, is an offensive beast in melee, but is hampered by a painfully short threat range.  On the up side, he's quite affordable.  On the downside, unlike Abby and Typhus, Khârn has a glass jaw and will drop the moment someone catches him in a challenge.  He's ok - typically run with a large cultist squad - but as a general rule you'll do better with a AoBF bikelord, due to the inproved toughness, inv. save, and especially speed.  If for some reason you really want to run an infantry khorne lord, though, you might prefer Khârn.

 

Lucious is pretty meh.  Not outright awful, but he mostly just kills marine sergeants, and you don't need a special character for that.  The sonic flamer is quite nice, and is basically his saving grace, but other then that, AP3 and a 3+ save means he has issues in challenges against competent duelists, and what else is he there for then, honestly?  If you're looking for a thematic choice for a Noise Marine army, try a Slaaneshi sorcerer for the sonic buff power.

 

Warpsmiths are... well, they're interesting.  A bunch of AP2 attacks, but low init and weapon skill.  Nice save, but poor inv options and only two wounds.  Can't deep strike, can't ride a bike, can't jump.  Two ranged weapons that are decent, but both short ranged on a slow infantry dude.  Some interesting abilities, but limited range, and replace his shooting.  Reduce terrain benefits, but doesn't work on fortifications.  Nice model design, but absolutely encrusted with very finecast unfriently detailing.  Can run upkeep on a transport while riding in it, but our transports are either just bad (raiders) or expendable and as such not worth the effort (rhinos). Points cost is ok, but not great.  All in all, Warpsiths aren't awesome, but they don't suck out loud, and they're certainly interesting.  They can march up the field supporting infantry, but you might want to give him a longer ranged weapon then (brandbrandbrand).  Alternatively sit back and fire a quad gun, or better yet an icarus canon, and spend their time fixing up backline vehicles, and ward enemy melee sweapers away from your firing lines with his mess of axe attacks.  Works better if running guard allies, not because he can help them directly, but because they make that firing line more worth protecting, and guard vehicle presence can increase the value of our own in-book armor options.  All in all, he's really not going to do as much for you as a bike lord, sorcerer, Huron, or winged prince, but at least has some potentially interesting and unique applications, unlike the apostle.

 

Apostles are just kind of awful, as described in other threads.  I'll leave it at that.

 

I have not used or given much though to Bile this edition.  At first glance he seems a bit pricey for the buff he brings, and is personally far less intimidating than most of our other HQ options, but I don't really have a strong opinion about him.

 

 

Which of these might suit you really depends on what else you're running.  In general, though, I like bike lords, princes, or huron for an initial HQ choice.  For a secondary supporting HQ I like sorcerers, warpsmiths, or a second prince if already running one.  In big games (apocalypse or double org) I like Typhus or Abby just because.

[Sandviper]

My question is can I safely run a nurgle biker lord with spawn?

[Ammonius]

My question is can I safely run a nurgle biker lord with spawn?

Make them Nurgle-Marked spawn so the unit toughness is 6 and you should be fine (Subtle differences in bike vs beast movement aside).

[Sception]

eh.  I mean, yes, the rule that picks out by cover save only picks out the lower save.  But unless there's been an FAQ I'm unaware of, it's still questionable whether they'd be able to run or whatever.  You can do it, but I'd lean towards bikes just for reduced hassle (plus melta, plus decoy champ).