What to do with Azrael in DW/RW army

[hardimanm]

Ok.   I have been increasing my army to not only play a 2000+ Raven Wing army but also a 2000+ Death WIng army as well.

 

If I play Raven wing my HQ is Sammael.  If I play deathwing i run Belial.  But i want to run a mix of Raven Wing and Death Wing lead by Azrael.  My problem is what to do with him.  The Raven Wing run off and leave him and the Deathwing Deep strike. 

 

So how would be best to utilize him?  I dont want nor do i have any Tac squads.

 

I could take a Land Raider and a squad of Death Wing Terminators and a librarian and run him with them...

 

Any other ideas?

 

[Razblood]

Give him a Command Squad and a Drop Pod perhaps?

[Dark_Master]

Deathwing Knight bodyguard in a Crusader?

 

DM

[Plaguewraith]

That is azrael's real issue, he has no place once you run double wing, due to the point increase to DW and slight cost decrease to RW assuming you don't over kit them, which negates there price drops quickly, after that depending on point value your left with very few options, if you let's say take 2-3 DWT and 2-3 RWAS you have no room left for troops in your FOC.

Which cuts even further into your anti air or model count as well as options for cheap allies due to points costs.

 

6th Ed is not kind to low model count armies sadly, I routinely play against multiple GT winners as my opponents in my club, they bring there A game so I learn the flaws of the new Doublewing, having played them for 15 years and counting.

[Darkangeldentist]

Azrael does seem to be a bit of a fish out of water in a Deathwing/Ravenwing army. I certainly feel he shines the most when leading regular tactical marines or veterans. However if you do not wish to field green marines then I would probably try the following combination.

 

First, take Ezekiel with him if you run any librarian, it may seem a lot of points but Ezekiel pairs up extremely well with him and together in a unit you get a lot of combat punch, support and a decent wound sink. (Risky but between the two you do have a lot of staying power.)

 

I would deploy him and Ezekiel in a ravenwing unit to begin with, they still get to scout redeploy although it will be reduced to 6" since they are infantry but units with plasma or melta are still likely to be able to get close enough to do their thing with a turn one move. If you are going first then deep strike a unit of terminators next to the bikes and have the characters join them. Whilst the lion helm is not quite as impressive a bump in survivability for regular terminators it's still an improvement and you'll be a decent distance up the table. The bikes then zip off to do their own thing as per usual. 

 

This way you still get to deep strike with the terminators and some degree of flexibility with where to drop them to pick up Azrael and Ezekiel before stomping around the table daring anything to take them on. With the two of them leading a squad of terminators you are going to attrition pretty well as they can inflict a lot of wounds on anything with a 3+ save or worse at good initiative. The psychic support from Ezekiel is a little better than a regular librarian thanks to his 3 wounds, 2+ save and mind worm. I have actually found this power to be quite useful now and seriously upsets enemy characters you are lucky enough to wound with it.

 

If going second then use the scout redeployment to make sure you are as protected a spot as possible but still get a bit closer if possible. Place Azrael and Ezekiel to the front as it will increase the unit's resilience greatly and you can still look out sir against the most dangerous ranged attacks. On the first turn you can still bring down the Terminators in the same fashion as before.

 

It's not ideal but it does minimise the inconvenience caused because of the different units.

[march10k]

TBH, I wouldn't field Azzy in a black/white list.  Is his points cost really worth unlocking both, given the drawback of needing to additionally spend points on a bodyguard unit or redesign the deathwing to babysit him.

 

Instead, focus on one aspect, and splash the other (nonscoring, of course!)

 

Belial with four scoring termie squads and two nonscoring RASs?  More workable than the Azzy list.  Sammy with four RASs and a squad or two of nonscoring termies?  Hey, one or more of them might as well be knights, right?  That also works well.  Most importantly, you still have the same units as in the azzy list, only without the drag on the list of "what do I do with my warlord?"

[Aegnor]

What March10K said.

[Polythemus]

TBH, I wouldn't field Azzy in a black/white list.  Is his points cost really worth unlocking both, given the drawback of needing to additionally spend points on a bodyguard unit or redesign the deathwing to babysit him.

 

Instead, focus on one aspect, and splash the other (nonscoring, of course!)

 

Belial with four scoring termie squads and two nonscoring RASs?  More workable than the Azzy list.  Sammy with four RASs and a squad or two of nonscoring termies?  Hey, one or more of them might as well be knights, right?  That also works well.  Most importantly, you still have the same units as in the azzy list, only without the drag on the list of "what do I do with my warlord?"

Like Aegnor, i also feel this is good advice. Azzy lists can really only afford a sprinkling of bikes and termies, and of the those two id say go with the bikes first and termies second. Your going to want your lists centered around green marines for azzy.

 

DaD- that is neat idea an one that may warrant a trial.

[Darkangel5051]

I actully use him with some allied IG. I hold Obj with him and if I have the point tho in a Quad gun in a ageis Def line.

[Tiger9gamer]

i ran a banner list with him once against a Sons of Horus HH army. he sat in an LRC with the banner, and pretty much waited until the last turn to do anything. he ripped a legion tactical squad a new one, though. Basically brought him because I dont have sammy yet.

[facmanpob]

There was a very long discussion about this a couple of months ago, and one of the conclusions was that just because Azrael CAN make RW and DW scoring, does not mean a) you have to take both in an Azzy army, or b ) he is the best choice in a Dualwing Army.

 

I think Azrael works best in a Greenwing army with DW or RW support, either deploying with the Greenwing as a counter assault unit in the backfield or with vets in a pod. Alternatively, he works in a DW heavy army in a Land Raider.

[ValourousHeart]

Awe man this is disappointing.

I was expecting to find song lyrics in this thread.

 

What do you do with Azreal,

What do you do with Azreal,

What do you do with Azreal, in a Black/White Army

 

Put him in a Crusader with Ezekiel

Put him in a Crusader with Ezekiel

Put him in a Crusader with Ezekiel, in a Black/White Army

[Tanhausen]

With the new codex, the only time I've seen Azzy on a board was in a list more or less like:

 

Azzy

Vets

TM + PFG

BoD

LRC

 

2 x 6 bikes

1 x 5 BK

1 x 5 terminators

1 x 5 devastators (4 lascannons)

 

He went 2-1-1 on a 4 game GT

 

But its WAY too many points in a single place and I agree with the above, for me Azzy if for 3k+ games, where you can bring 30 terminators, 18 bikes and whatnot.

[IanSturrock]

I'm still pretty keen on using him like I did in this list, post-FAQ -- which is leading a 10-man tac squad in a Crusader, close enough to a dakka banner to be getting that lovely 22 shots on the turn they get out, and then 44 shots anywhere out to 24" every turn thereafter. You can deny a big chunk of real estate that way, and Azrael makes that tac squad nicely survivable:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274665-2000-pt-multiwing/

I'm really digging Darkangeldentist's idea though, and will be trying that combo in a list very soon.

[Brother Immolator]

There was a very long discussion about this a couple of months ago, and one of the conclusions was that just because Azrael CAN make RW and DW scoring, does not mean a) you have to take both in an Azzy army, or b ) he is the best choice in a Dualwing Army.

 

I think Azrael works best in a Greenwing army with DW or RW support, either deploying with the Greenwing as a counter assault unit in the backfield or with vets in a pod. Alternatively, he works in a DW heavy army in a Land Raider.

This. Particularly point a.

Also dont forget that a command squad with the banner is working for him also.

[dadieau]

At 2000+ I use him in a Devastator unit. He makes them very hard.

[Upstartes]

My plan is to put him and a command squad in a drop pod with Banner of Fortitude and drop him in with the deathwing assault. Maybe an attached librarian as well.

 

I have not had a chance to field this yet though, so it is quite possibly not the most efficient use of points. However, I'm running Azzy as a grand warlord in a Crusade of Fire campaign for his across-game flexibility, so I have additional reasons to use Azzy.