What happened to the Thunder Warriors

[Aegnor]

How were the Thunder Warriors mistakes though? They were tools that achieved their purpose and then by and large disappeared/were removed when their better replacements came along.

[Kol Saresk]

I don't think it was necessarily the Thunder Warriors were a mistake, but rather their treatment. Example, here is thi paragon of all that is good, just and moral. Yet everytime you turn around, here's a city burned on his orders, a planet blown to oblivion by his decree and here, some of what were quite possibly his most loyal soldiers, thrown to the wind because he found something bigger and better.

[Daemon2027]

Do the Thunder Warriors not represent a different time, and not the Imperium that the Emperor wants to build. He must have recruited, and 'engineered' them when he was just another warlord, perhaps he was known as the Emperor then, but he was just another warlord on a planet of tech barbarians and tyrants. They were perfect for the majority of the Unification Wars, a blunt weapon that represented the times, and the enemy they were there to fight. As Earth came under the Emperors control, and he planned the Great Crusade, he needed Earth to lose the mad max style techno barbarian culture, so he promoted the Imperial Truth, and rebuilt earth, or at least the Imperial Palace part, to be a shinny representation of his Imperium.

 

As I see it the Thunder Warriors stood for everything the old earth was, the warriors of a tyrant from the age of strife.The Astartes on the other hand were portrayed as the hight of human progress, never resting warriors who also had the capacity to govern, seek knowledge, build, soldiers of an Emperor who wants to free humanity.

 

So the Thunder Warriors had to be done away with, they had no place in the Imperium, the Emperor knew this, and probally, quite coldly, didnt care.

[Raven Angel]

 

 

Kol_Saresk

Well you have to remember, Betrayal is a product of Forgeworld which has on more than one occasion sought to pioneer its own way into the fluff.

@Raven Angel: So if I read the quote correctly, it does support the "Thunder Warriors were less refined" theory I proposed in their

psychotic episodes and genetic instability(which doe to some degree support Babu's description of their physiology), although it does not say much about how they phased out from history, although since that was provided in The Outcast Dead when all the Astartes went "But you and all the other Thunder Warriors died in that one battle!" I guess we know the "official" story of what happened to the Thunder Warriors.

 

Hmm, I wonder. The Betrayal quote does support Babu's suggestion that the Emperor was always planning to phase out the Thunder

Warriors, but Babu suggested it was to "create a legend" while Betrayal suggests that the Emperor wanted something better. Is it perhaps plausible that, like I theorized earlier on, that the Emperor made the Thunder Warriors because that was all he could do at the time and then used them to gather the materials necessary to create the Primarchs?

                    

In general the FW narrative gives a picture of the Unification Wars as a 4 or 5 centuries that started with the Thunder Warriors but was finished up by the SMs. I also get the impression in general from; not just from FW but the whole HH, that Thunder Warriors were not as common as we might think, especially in the last 100 or 150 years of the Unification Wars.

[Kais Klip]

 

 

Kol_Saresk

Well you have to remember, Betrayal is a product of Forgeworld which has on more than one occasion sought to pioneer its own way into the fluff.

@Raven Angel: So if I read the quote correctly, it does support the "Thunder Warriors were less refined" theory I proposed in their

psychotic episodes and genetic instability(which doe to some degree support Babu's description of their physiology), although it does not say much about how they phased out from history, although since that was provided in The Outcast Dead when all the Astartes went "But you and all the other Thunder Warriors died in that one battle!" I guess we know the "official" story of what happened to the Thunder Warriors.

 

Hmm, I wonder. The Betrayal quote does support Babu's suggestion that the Emperor was always planning to phase out the Thunder

Warriors, but Babu suggested it was to "create a legend" while Betrayal suggests that the Emperor wanted something better. Is it perhaps plausible that, like I theorized earlier on, that the Emperor made the Thunder Warriors because that was all he could do at the time and then used them to gather the materials necessary to create the Primarchs?

                    

In general the FW narrative gives a picture of the Unification Wars as a 4 or 5 centuries that started with the Thunder Warriors but was finished up by the SMs. I also get the impression in general from; not just from FW but the whole HH, that Thunder Warriors were not as common as we might think, especially in the last 100 or 150 years of the Unification Wars.

 

We need to keep in mind that the majority of that time was spent "cleaning up" the Unification; insurgencies, isolated pockets of resistance notable only for the principal of their existence. In these cases the Astartes and Thunder Warriors  were last used in any significant numbers (which was still a rarity) during the closing of the campaign against the Yeselti faction, which still counted as part of the "cleaning up process" since in-narrative history books painted the Unification to be over 150 years ago or so, despite the protestations of many scholars.  Essentially, think the Middle East today, in terms of the academic debate about the war being finished or not. 

 

Source: 

 

  "According to history tracts that were already published and in circulation, that were already being taught in Scholams for goodness sake, the glorious Unification Wars had brought the Age of Strife to an end over a century and a half earlier. Since then, there had been more than one hundred and fifty years of peace and renewal as the Emperor led the Great Crusade outwards from Terra, and courageously reconnected the lost and scattered diaspora of mankind.

  

That's what the history tracts said. Reality was far less tidy. History only recorded broad strokes and general phases of development, and assigned almost arbitrary dates to human accomplishments that had been made in far less definitive instalments. The aftershocks of the Unification War still rolled across the face of the planet. Unification had been triumphantly declared at a point when no power or potentate could hope to vanquish the awesome Imperial machine, but that hadn't prevented various feudal states, religious adherents, remote nations or stubborn autocrats from holding out and trying to ring-fence and preserve their own little pockets of independence. Many, like the Boeotian Yeselti family, had held out for decades, negotiating and conniving their way around treaties and rapprochements and every other diplomatic effort designed to bring them under Imperial sway.

 

  Their story demonstrated that the Emperor, or his advisors at least, possessed extraordinary patience. In the wake of the Unification War, there had been a strenuous and high-profile effort to resolve conflicts through non-violent means, and the Yeselti were not tyrants or despots. They were simply an ancient royal house eager to maintain their autonomous existence. The Emperor allowed them a twilight grace of a century and a half to come to terms, longer than the lifespan of many Terran empires.

 

  The story also demonstrated that the Emperor's patience was finite, and that when it was exhausted, so was his mercy and restraint.

    

  The Imperial Army had advanced into Boeotia to arrest the Yeselti and annex the territory. Hawser's accredited conservator team was one of hundreds assigned to follow the army in, along with flocks of medicae, aid workers, renovators, engineers and iterators.

 

  To pick up the pieces."

[godking]

A key thing to remember about The Outcast Dead is that our information is coming from a singular, particularly unreliable narrator. With his biology in as much disarray as it was, it is quite likey the old TW was misremembering or flat out hallucinating. Could be completely true.  We lack enough outside material to run with it.  Think "Angels of Darkness" and that business about the Lion always shadowing his own troops or the Word Bearers supposition about where all those Blue Armored gits came from.  One cancer riddled old war damaged super soldier may not have all marbles in play.  But, then again, maybe.

 

I prefer down playing the "limited shelf life" angle for the more consistently used  "phase out" background that the HH fluff utilizes for the Thunder Warriors.  They warred in the MK I armor, fought for the Big E in the early Unification wars against the "Techno-Barbarian tribes" of old Earth, and were proto-types of the later human genetic augmentation that would lead to the Legions. They were Proto-Astartes.  Examples of this methodology is utilized with Lorgar and Erebor/Kor Phaeron (One of those two little :cusses) to make super humans that CAN keep up with Astartes more or less, but are a bit different.

As the Emperor perfected the method, as well as gaining access to better staff and equipment with his expanding sphere of influence, the Thunder Warriors were simply phased out for the Space Marine Legions.  They fought and died alongside the Legions, forming an old core of vets that eventually dwindled to nothing through simple attrition.  In the same way older models of tanks and rifles are phased out of militaries for the newer and next version, or formations are removed with restructuring, so too were the Thunder Warriors.  No unnecessary "dark secret" or "planned obsolescence" just simple progression.  Which makes sense if the same/similar method is still used for exemplary individuals in the Great Crusade era.

 

The problem with the The Outcast Dead version of events is a simple "why?" and its inconsistencies with the other fluff. (TIme line business aside).  Perhaps later threads will shine more light on the matter.

 

@RAven Angel

Good find with that Betrayal quote! Here I was flipping through the Horus Heresy: Visions of War artbook to find quotes.

This unreliable narrator is the same guy who was able to keep himself alive long after he should have died and has the scientific ability to recreate part of the emperors genetic mastery.

 

I see no obvious reason to doubt his version of events as they are backed up indirectly by other sources. and what we know about the emperor.

 

In the ''official'' history Arik Taranis died of his wounds  during the last battle we know that is not true .

 

In the ''official'' history all of the thunder warriors are supposed to have died  during the last battle we know that its not true.

 

We know that the emperor will suppres the truth if he thinks its for the better good.

 

Two legions where ''removed'' with those who know about it forbidden to make mention of it.

 

The emperor culling the thunder warriors and then changing the ''official'' history is consistent with his modus operandi.

[Ubermensch Commander]

 

A key thing to remember about The Outcast Dead is that our information is coming from a singular, particularly unreliable narrator. With his biology in as much disarray as it was, it is quite likey the old TW was misremembering or flat out hallucinating. Could be completely true.  We lack enough outside material to run with it.  Think "Angels of Darkness" and that business about the Lion always shadowing his own troops or the Word Bearers supposition about where all those Blue Armored gits came from.  One cancer riddled old war damaged super soldier may not have all marbles in play.  But, then again, maybe.

 

I prefer down playing the "limited shelf life" angle for the more consistently used  "phase out" background that the HH fluff utilizes for the Thunder Warriors.  They warred in the MK I armor, fought for the Big E in the early Unification wars against the "Techno-Barbarian tribes" of old Earth, and were proto-types of the later human genetic augmentation that would lead to the Legions. They were Proto-Astartes.  Examples of this methodology is utilized with Lorgar and Erebor/Kor Phaeron (One of those two little :cusses) to make super humans that CAN keep up with Astartes more or less, but are a bit different.

As the Emperor perfected the method, as well as gaining access to better staff and equipment with his expanding sphere of influence, the Thunder Warriors were simply phased out for the Space Marine Legions.  They fought and died alongside the Legions, forming an old core of vets that eventually dwindled to nothing through simple attrition.  In the same way older models of tanks and rifles are phased out of militaries for the newer and next version, or formations are removed with restructuring, so too were the Thunder Warriors.  No unnecessary "dark secret" or "planned obsolescence" just simple progression.  Which makes sense if the same/similar method is still used for exemplary individuals in the Great Crusade era.

 

The problem with the The Outcast Dead version of events is a simple "why?" and its inconsistencies with the other fluff. (TIme line business aside).  Perhaps later threads will shine more light on the matter.

 

@RAven Angel

Good find with that Betrayal quote! Here I was flipping through the Horus Heresy: Visions of War artbook to find quotes.

This unreliable narrator is the same guy who was able to keep himself alive long after he should have died and has the scientific ability to recreate part of the emperors genetic mastery.

 

I see no obvious reason to doubt his version of events as they are backed up indirectly by other sources. and what we know about the emperor.

 

In the ''official'' history Arik Taranis died of his wounds  during the last battle we know that is not true .

 

In the ''official'' history all of the thunder warriors are supposed to have died  during the last battle we know that its not true.

 

We know that the emperor will suppres the truth if he thinks its for the better good.

 

Two legions where ''removed'' with those who know about it forbidden to make mention of it.

 

The emperor culling the thunder warriors and then changing the ''official'' history is consistent with his modus operandi.

 

Actually the cull as told by last survivor with perhaps a biased narrative is rather inconsistent with the Emperor's modus operandai.  The Emperor allowed alot of leeway with his forces: Lorgar was given over a century to get on board with the Imperial Truth, Terran empires gathered in the Unification Wars were given over a century to comply, etc and so forth.   

 

While the Emperor could be absolutely ruthless in the pursuit of his ultimate goal, the salvation of the human race, he seemed to have laid the hammer down only when necessary.  There was nothing to make the TW cull necessary.  If indeed the Emperor would design something to be inherently short term, why even bother with a cull? Let a built in biological timebomb do the work.

 

Genebroken general's supposition about not wanting to share the life light makes precious little sense when we stop and think the Big E MADE a council of superhuman Primarchs to conquer the galaxy for him AND gave the title of Warmaster to Horus in order to pursue other work. Tad inconsistent.  He is the Emperor. All the armies fight in his name.  

 

The mode of events presented in The Outcast Dead conflict with other sources of fluff, including White Dwarf Articles and Codices. In addition, it does not make any sense for them to have planned obsolescence, since none of the other gene-operations of the Emperor did. From the Primarchs, to the TW, to the Custodes, to the Legions, and possibly the Grey Knights (unclear on the canonicity of their "Emperor's own gene seed") they all serve as a sequence of modifications, new editions and developments as it were.  It is similar to the armor MK upgrades.  They did not plan the armors to be obsolete or destroy them, they just made the next better version. As with the living weapons, same with the mechanical weapons.  With all of those various superhumans made by the Emperor, there is little outside of this singular incident to present evidence for TW as inherently short term or in need of a cull.  

 

In short: The idea of TW as culled is inconsistent with the other fluff and lacks any substantial reason behind it.

[godking]

 

 

A key thing to remember about The Outcast Dead is that our information is coming from a singular, particularly unreliable narrator. With his biology in as much disarray as it was, it is quite likey the old TW was misremembering or flat out hallucinating. Could be completely true.  We lack enough outside material to run with it.  Think "Angels of Darkness" and that business about the Lion always shadowing his own troops or the Word Bearers supposition about where all those Blue Armored gits came from.  One cancer riddled old war damaged super soldier may not have all marbles in play.  But, then again, maybe.

 

I prefer down playing the "limited shelf life" angle for the more consistently used  "phase out" background that the HH fluff utilizes for the Thunder Warriors.  They warred in the MK I armor, fought for the Big E in the early Unification wars against the "Techno-Barbarian tribes" of old Earth, and were proto-types of the later human genetic augmentation that would lead to the Legions. They were Proto-Astartes.  Examples of this methodology is utilized with Lorgar and Erebor/Kor Phaeron (One of those two little :cusses) to make super humans that CAN keep up with Astartes more or less, but are a bit different.

As the Emperor perfected the method, as well as gaining access to better staff and equipment with his expanding sphere of influence, the Thunder Warriors were simply phased out for the Space Marine Legions.  They fought and died alongside the Legions, forming an old core of vets that eventually dwindled to nothing through simple attrition.  In the same way older models of tanks and rifles are phased out of militaries for the newer and next version, or formations are removed with restructuring, so too were the Thunder Warriors.  No unnecessary "dark secret" or "planned obsolescence" just simple progression.  Which makes sense if the same/similar method is still used for exemplary individuals in the Great Crusade era.

 

The problem with the The Outcast Dead version of events is a simple "why?" and its inconsistencies with the other fluff. (TIme line business aside).  Perhaps later threads will shine more light on the matter.

 

@RAven Angel

Good find with that Betrayal quote! Here I was flipping through the Horus Heresy: Visions of War artbook to find quotes.

This unreliable narrator is the same guy who was able to keep himself alive long after he should have died and has the scientific ability to recreate part of the emperors genetic mastery.

 

I see no obvious reason to doubt his version of events as they are backed up indirectly by other sources. and what we know about the emperor.

 

In the ''official'' history Arik Taranis died of his wounds  during the last battle we know that is not true .

 

In the ''official'' history all of the thunder warriors are supposed to have died  during the last battle we know that its not true.

 

We know that the emperor will suppres the truth if he thinks its for the better good.

 

Two legions where ''removed'' with those who know about it forbidden to make mention of it.

 

The emperor culling the thunder warriors and then changing the ''official'' history is consistent with his modus operandi.

 

Actually the cull as told by last survivor with perhaps a biased narrative is rather inconsistent with the Emperor's modus operandai.  The Emperor allowed alot of leeway with his forces: Lorgar was given over a century to get on board with the Imperial Truth, Terran empires gathered in the Unification Wars were given over a century to comply, etc and so forth.   

 

While the Emperor could be absolutely ruthless in the pursuit of his ultimate goal, the salvation of the human race, he seemed to have laid the hammer down only when necessary.  There was nothing to make the TW cull necessary.  If indeed the Emperor would design something to be inherently short term, why even bother with a cull? Let a built in biological timebomb do the work.

 

Genebroken general's supposition about not wanting to share the life light makes precious little sense when we stop and think the Big E MADE a council of superhuman Primarchs to conquer the galaxy for him AND gave the title of Warmaster to Horus in order to pursue other work. Tad inconsistent.  He is the Emperor. All the armies fight in his name.  

 

The mode of events presented in The Outcast Dead conflict with other sources of fluff, including White Dwarf Articles and Codices. In addition, it does not make any sense for them to have planned obsolescence, since none of the other gene-operations of the Emperor did. From the Primarchs, to the TW, to the Custodes, to the Legions, and possibly the Grey Knights (unclear on the canonicity of their "Emperor's own gene seed") they all serve as a sequence of modifications, new editions and developments as it were.  It is similar to the armor MK upgrades.  They did not plan the armors to be obsolete or destroy them, they just made the next better version. As with the living weapons, same with the mechanical weapons.  With all of those various superhumans made by the Emperor, there is little outside of this singular incident to present evidence for TW as inherently short term or in need of a cull.  

 

In short: The idea of TW as culled is inconsistent with the other fluff and lacks any substantial reason behind it.

The official imperial history is that the thunder warriors all died in the last battle for Terra.

 

And this is'nt coming from Arik this is coming from Astartes who where taught this offical history. 

 

Arik Taranis and his subordinate being alive + other thunder warriors surviving  makes that history into a lie.

 

We know that the emperor has lied/suppressed the truth about other things .

 

We know that two legions where ''removed'' with those who know about it sworn to silence.

 

If the emperor had simply phased the thunder warriors out there would be a lot more thunder warriors alive genetic degeneration or not astartes like Ahriman or Garro would have fought beside thunder warriors during the last battles for Terra  and there would not have been a need for the official history that they all died in the last battle.

 

And the emperor clearly could have taken steps to halt the genetic detoriation of his surviving Thunder warriors seeing that Arik was able to create geneseed to halt the detoriation of himself and Ghota .

 

Why did the emperor not halt the detoriation of useful proto astartes who while not having the modification that the astartes have would still be very useful ?

 

If there was still  a place for gen bulked regiments of normal humans there should still have been a place for proto astartes Who could at the very least have been used in the conquest of the solar system.

 

Slow phasing out the thunder warriors does not make sense for the following reasons

 

1 There should still have been thunder warriors alive and veterans such as Ahriman Garro Khârn or other Terran Astartes should have remembered them.

 

2 The emperor had the ability to halt the detoriation of extremly useful tools as the thunder warriors where.

 

3  The official history contradicts the idea of slowly phasing out the thunder warriors

 

4 All thunder warriors supposedly ''died'' at around the same time.

 

All signs point to the emperor giving his thunder warriors the same treatment as the two forgotten legions.

[Raven Angel]

First off Ahriman and Khârn aren't Terrans. Second the crusade set out 200 years before the HH. Third the battle that "killed" all the Thunder Warriors was at least 100 years before the start of the crusade. Unification did not refer to the whole of the Sol system but to Terra alone and as has been noted earlier it was declared long before the planet was actually pacified.  Fourth, and this is the most important thing to remember, fixing the Thunder Warriors was not the next logical step from a scientific stand point; the Primarchs and Astartes were.  

 

Now step back and look at what info we actually have. Official history says the last of the Thunder Warriors were killed in the last battle for unification. Now we know that at least a few survived, but for that story to have even been reasonable as an explanation their couldn't have been that many Thunder Warriors at the battle to start with. The Imperium is based in part on the superior strength and durability of the Emperors armies at this time, not on the kind of overwhelming numbers that we see as the example of Imperial power in the 41st Millennium. If 10s or 100s of thousands of Thunder Warriors are killed in a single battle it makes a mockery of that notion and undermines the image of the Imperium that the Emperor is trying to create. But is it's only a few hundred or a couple thousand Thunder Warriors at the battle it becomes "the last valiant sacrifice of the Emperors oldest and most loyal warriors to ensure the survival of their master's dream."

 

The truth is their where at least a few survivors of the Thunder Warriors after that battle and some kind of purge was probably ordered. Did this order come from the Emperor? Maybe, maybe not. Both Malcador and Constantine Valdor have proven quite willing to eliminate "potential problems" on their own initiative and not actually tell the Emperor what they are up to. Does that mean he didn't know? Probably not, but I doubt there was ever any kind of "official" decision on the Emperor's part to eliminate the Thunder Warriors. You see it is much easier to revise history when there aren't any records that need erasing.

 

Now the question of why would a purge be needed in the first place. Well it is without a doubt that they were flawed, but that in and of itself is insufficient reason. It is highly likely that the reason for the purge was that the numbers of surviving Thunder Warriors after the battle was so low that they could no longer be considered a viable combat force or at the very least the contributions they could continue to make no longer outweighed the trouble of hiding just how flawed they were from the public. It is likely that this was a purely political decision made for reasons of propagandic convenience. From a political standpoint the Thunder Warriors are tools; weapons that are no longer in production having been replaced by the Astartes. So long as these weapons can fight effectively they don't need fixing, and can remain on the battlefield. However as these weapons are rendered nonfunctional(killed, go insane, bodies fail) and number fall it becomes necessary to reevaluate the benefits to the war having their combat potential brings. Once the cost of operation significantly exceeds the benefits of use a victorious army like the Emperors will "retire" such weapons. However one cannot simply flip a switch when the weapon in question is a life form so more drastic measure will have to be employed. These methods don't make for the best public image and so would need to be "spun" in a positive light.

[Excessus]

Ahriman is very much terran...

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I understood that Khârn was also Terran...

[godking]

First off Ahriman and Khârn aren't Terrans. Second the crusade set out 200 years before the HH. Third the battle that "killed" all the Thunder Warriors was at least 100 years before the start of the crusade. Unification did not refer to the whole of the Sol system but to Terra alone and as has been noted earlier it was declared long before the planet was actually pacified.  Fourth, and this is the most important thing to remember, fixing the Thunder Warriors was not the next logical step from a scientific stand point; the Primarchs and Astartes were.  

 

Now step back and look at what info we actually have. Official history says the last of the Thunder Warriors were killed in the last battle for unification. Now we know that at least a few survived, but for that story to have even been reasonable as an explanation their couldn't have been that many Thunder Warriors at the battle to start with. The Imperium is based in part on the superior strength and durability of the Emperors armies at this time, not on the kind of overwhelming numbers that we see as the example of Imperial power in the 41st Millennium. If 10s or 100s of thousands of Thunder Warriors are killed in a single battle it makes a mockery of that notion and undermines the image of the Imperium that the Emperor is trying to create. But is it's only a few hundred or a couple thousand Thunder Warriors at the battle it becomes "the last valiant sacrifice of the Emperors oldest and most loyal warriors to ensure the survival of their master's dream."

 

The truth is their where at least a few survivors of the Thunder Warriors after that battle and some kind of purge was probably ordered. Did this order come from the Emperor? Maybe, maybe not. Both Malcador and Constantine Valdor have proven quite willing to eliminate "potential problems" on their own initiative and not actually tell the Emperor what they are up to. Does that mean he didn't know? Probably not, but I doubt there was ever any kind of "official" decision on the Emperor's part to eliminate the Thunder Warriors. You see it is much easier to revise history when there aren't any records that need erasing.

 

Now the question of why would a purge be needed in the first place. Well it is without a doubt that they were flawed, but that in and of itself is insufficient reason. It is highly likely that the reason for the purge was that the numbers of surviving Thunder Warriors after the battle was so low that they could no longer be considered a viable combat force or at the very least the contributions they could continue to make no longer outweighed the trouble of hiding just how flawed they were from the public. It is likely that this was a purely political decision made for reasons of propagandic convenience. From a political standpoint the Thunder Warriors are tools; weapons that are no longer in production having been replaced by the Astartes. So long as these weapons can fight effectively they don't need fixing, and can remain on the battlefield. However as these weapons are rendered nonfunctional(killed, go insane, bodies fail) and number fall it becomes necessary to reevaluate the benefits to the war having their combat potential brings. Once the cost of operation significantly exceeds the benefits of use a victorious army like the Emperors will "retire" such weapons. However one cannot simply flip a switch when the weapon in question is a life form so more drastic measure will have to be employed. These methods don't make for the best public image and so would need to be "spun" in a positive light.

Ahriman is most certainly a Terran as is Khârn.

 

I somewhat agree with the rest of what you said and will comment on it later .

[Kol Saresk]

Enough people have hit on Khârn and Ahriman being Terran I think.

 

Raven Angel I do agree with some of what you said. Although the fact that Arik Tanis(also known as Babu Dhakal) was specifically recording of dying of his wounds as he raised the lightning banner yet lived to survive what he called a cull, well it's kind of a yes and no. It does match with everything you are saying but it just seems weird that they wouldn't make sure that the one named Thunder Warrior didn't die.

[Raven Angel]

I stand corrected on Khârn and Ahriman, my mistake

[Kol Saresk]

I stand corrected on Khârn and Ahriman, my mistake

don't fret man, people have gotten worse wrong.

[Arachnid99]

I know Khârn is pre-Nuceria but I don't think he's Terran, in Betrayal the World Eaters are said to recruit from multiple planets and in the BL short The Weakness of Others the description of his training shows he's joining a established Legion that is taking part in the Great Crusade. He's being tested on the trainings grounds of Bodt which is a world and his trainer Centurion Gruner is explicitly said to be a "Terran-born veteran of the Unification Wars" suggesting that being Terran born by this point is worth remarking on. Khârn is part of the post expansion from Terra, pre discovery of Angron recruitment that saw the World Eaters built up from Regiment scale to Legion scale. He can't be a native of Bodt because it doesn't have any natives but equally he probably isn't a Terran as by this point Betrayal suggests all the Legions were recruiting from either Legion homeworlds or Imperial Worlds with suitably hardy populations. He could be a Terran but he isn't definitely a Terran. 

[Kol Saresk]

I'll find the passage when I get home, but Betrayer does explicitly state Khârn as being Terran from Khârn's POV.

 

EDIT: It's somewhere around when Angron went to the graves of his brothers and sisters.

[godking]

I know Khârn is pre-Nuceria but I don't think he's Terran, in Betrayal the World Eaters are said to recruit from multiple planets and in the BL short The Weakness of Others the description of his training shows he's joining a established Legion that is taking part in the Great Crusade. He's being tested on the trainings grounds of Bodt which is a world and his trainer Centurion Gruner is explicitly said to be a "Terran-born veteran of the Unification Wars" suggesting that being Terran born by this point is worth remarking on. Khârn is part of the post expansion from Terra, pre discovery of Angron recruitment that saw the World Eaters built up from Regiment scale to Legion scale. He can't be a native of Bodt because it doesn't have any natives but equally he probably isn't a Terran as by this point Betrayal suggests all the Legions were recruiting from either Legion homeworlds or Imperial Worlds with suitably hardy populations. He could be a Terran but he isn't definitely a Terran. 

If i remember correctly its stated explicidly in betrayer that Khârn is terran and if i remember correctly its also stated in after deshea that Khârn is terran.

[blackoption]

Godking is correct. Khârn is Terran. In After Deshea, Khârn, along with the senior command of the war hounds, are discussion what to do with their Primarch after key commanders have gone in to meet him, but not come out. All of them were terran at that point.

[Kais Klip]

Seconding Khârn's Terran birth, specifically what is today the east Russian Kamchatkan Peninsula. I wouldn't place a large amount of money on it, but something in my head tells me that is so. I'd appreciate if anyone seconds me on that.

 

I believe the lads in the following link are mistaking a discussion with Khârn that took place on the Ural mountains to be his birthplace.

 

Some more discussion on that matter on this B&C Thread

[Wade Garrett]

As to why the Thunder Warrior needed to be culled...given what we see of Ghota and Arik (bodies on hooks EVERYWHERE!) my personal explanation is that they were a lot closer to, say...the World Eaters (not War Hounds) or the Night Lords than the Ultramarines or the Salamanders.

 

Blunt instrument, fill it full of bolter shells and dismember what's left with chainswords, it's an act of incredible willpower for me to NOT kill everything around me at any given moment types. Fine for when the Emperor was taking a world. When it came time to start the Great Crusade (long voyages. In confined environments. Also, maybe we could try some diplomacy with some of the human worlds that aren't too daemony, too xenos, or too reliant on Abominable Intelligences) the Thunder Warriors were absolutely the wrong tool for the job.

 

So....an army of violence prone supermen. Turn them loose to do Emperor knows what on the Homeworld? Given that the Emperor does, if not know, have a pretty good idea of what the Thunder Warriors would do once loosed from his leash, he either kills them himself or has the Custodians do.

[Kol Saresk]

Seconding Khârn's Terran birth, specifically what is today the east Russian Kamchatkan Peninsula. I wouldn't place a large amount of money on it, but something in my head tells me that is so. I'd appreciate if anyone seconds me on that.

 

I believe the lads in the following link are mistaking a discussion with Khârn that took place on the Ural mountains to be his birthplace.

 

Some more discussion on that matter on this B&C Thread

Yeah, IIRC the conclusion came from the accent he was given in the audiodrama Butcher's Nails and that page 305 of Betrayer said he came a mountainous region with jagged peaks and year-long snow. But then again, considering what the world will have gone through, he could have been from the Smoky Mountains for all we know.(Kidding, please do not take that as serious conjecture. Just merely pointing out the relative lack of knowledge.)

[Apothecary Vaddon]

 

Seconding Khârn's Terran birth, specifically what is today the east Russian Kamchatkan Peninsula. I wouldn't place a large amount of money on it, but something in my head tells me that is so. I'd appreciate if anyone seconds me on that.

 

I believe the lads in the following link are mistaking a discussion with Khârn that took place on the Ural mountains to be his birthplace.

 

Some more discussion on that matter on this B&C Thread

Yeah, IIRC the conclusion came from the accent he was given in the audiodrama Butcher's Nails and that page 305 of Betrayer said he came a mountainous region with jagged peaks and year-long snow. But then again, considering what the world will have gone through, he could have been from the Smoky Mountains for all we know.(Kidding, please do not take that as serious conjecture. Just merely pointing out the relative lack of knowledge.)

Puh-lease. Those puny little hills? Let's start talking about the Rockies and the Cascades.

[Kol Saresk]

Hey, it was merely in jest. Besides, I'm from Florida. Anything over 100 feet above is tall. ;)

[Emperors Immortals]

Out of curiosity, are there any mentions of TW falling to chaos, using sorcery or being generally heretical at all?