How do you defeat Space wolves?

[Tiger9gamer]

this will probably be a series of threads about some arimes i'm having problems with. Thanks in advance to all those who help!

 

So there are at least three armies i have never beaten. Tyranids, chaos, and now the space wolves. this thread will focus on the puppies. Here it goes!

_________

 

This week, i suffered through a slaughter of my meger 1850pt army. my opponent brought a drop pod list, and it overwhelmed my forced and destroyed it within turn two. I must ask; how do you counter this kind of attack?

 

He had about six drop pods full of greyhunters and one filled with a wolf guard pack. they took out my land raider and command squad quickly, pretty much taking down 500pts of things in the first turn. I barely scratched the opposite force during my phase, and he pretty much killed my entire army at turn two.

 

any help?

[Interrogator Stobz]

The thing about pods is if you cant bubble wrap vs his greatest threats then play the same game.

DW do it better because half his pods are on the table turn one so DWA turn two and give him a taste of his own medicine.

He does have the advantage of being able to put more than 1/2 his army in reserve but depending on your list there are ways to deal with that too...

 

...What is your list?

[Tiger9gamer]

I admit, it wasn't the best I could have used X-X i'm currently putting together a RW assault squadron, so i had to use a mech spam against him. I will post it tommorow when i'm not on an ipad...

 

but, what else do you suggest?

[Interrogator Stobz]

Defeat him with BOLTER and CHAINSWORD and FAITH in the LION!!!

 

Need more detail.

:D

stobz

[march10k]

I'd take nothing but terminators with CMLs, then DWA the whole lot. On the bottom of turn 2. Eat that, pesky podders. Your meltaguns won't do you much good when I'm CMLing your marines from 39" away! After I take first blood for killing a single pod, of course

[Apahllo]

Pesky drop pods. Take multiple high threat units not, all eggs in the av14 basket. Deploy widely across the board but keep units close to each other.

If you really want to pull it off go for the ageis line and intercept one of the droppods for first blood! Or take coteaz, he is the bane of deep striking armies like droppod lists. Coteaz + shooty henchmen and aegis line will sure be more than a bump in the road. Spy network/interceptor, that's going to be your anti wolf medicine.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

You must scour the codex for a weapon created in the Dark Age of Technology.

[dswanick]

You must scour the codex for a weapon created in the Dark Age of Technology.

Your hand-drawn propaganda is no match for the actual vid-log of the incident. The Space Wolves fought this battle to a draw, they were not defeated:

 

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F

[Brother Immolator]

Defeat him with BOLTER and CHAINSWORD and FAITH in the LION!!!

Need more detail.

stobz

A standard of devastation wouldnt hurt either. He might open fire first but he will have to stand out there and pick daysies (or whatever its spelled) for a round. Target practise for 120 bolter rounds.

You might want to defeat him in his own game too, standard of retribution for counter attack. Let him charge you, overwatch then counter attack. It works that way right?

[Onisuzume]

Marines. Lots of Marines.

Can his drop pod army at 1.850 resist about 80-90 marines or more?

[shortysl]

Distract them with doggy treats and run them to the vet for neutering.

[Tiger9gamer]

Warlord: Interrogator-chaplain Mordecai (Terminator armor, Mace of Redemption)-175pts

Command: Deathwing command squad (5 Termies, x2 TH/S, x2 lightning claws, Champion, Banner of foritude)-320pts

 

Elite 1: Mortis Dreadnaught (x2 autocannons)-125pts

 

Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man,, melta gun, Combi-melta, melta bombs, rhino)-210pts

 

Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, flamer, Combi-flamer, melta bombs Rhino)-205pts

 

Troop 3: Tactical squad (5 man, Plasma rifle, combi-plasma, TLLC razorback)-180pts

Troop 4: Tactical squad (5 man, Plasma rifle, combi-plasma, TLLC razorback)-180pts

F/A1: Black knight squadron (6 man, x2 ravenwing grenade launchers)-267

H/S 1: Land Raider crusader (multi-melta)-260pts

 

This is around the same thing I used, even if the points are slightly off. Couldn't find the original list. 

 

also it seems I was stupid and played with a list that was 45pts over for the past three months X__X I guess I should always double check my math...

[Bryan Blaire]

If you have no units on the table at the end of turn 1, you auto-lose, keep that in mind (the same goes for your opponent). One of the best pieces of advice I've seen against an all drop pod army is to deploy in such a way that his pods have trouble coming down. You'll have to use the terrain to your advantage some, so running a lot of vehicles is probably not a good way to do that. I haven't played against an all pod army, because no one I know actually has enough pods to do that, and the FLGS rule is that your proxies have to be a similar size and shape, so no one has really made convincing ones (no Solo cup pods allowed, etc).

[march10k]

Make him have trouble coming down?  As in, blanket the entire board with models?  IG and orks are the only ones that can probably do it...but they're hampered by having to start (mostly, at least, if they're bringing enough bodies in the first place) in their own deployment zone...I don't buy it.

[Tiger9gamer]

So, maybe I should have reserved my rhinos and kept my guys on foot?

[Bryan Blaire]

I mean try and minimize his lanes of fire, try and force him out of good Melta range, make it difficult to get to you, etc. like I said, it's advice I've seen, no one I know plays all pod armies like that Tiger9Gamer. He can't come down into tight terrain and he can't come down directly on your models, so there might be something to work with there, if you have it available. I like playing on terrain heavy tables. What amount of terrain saturation do you usually use? Are there any house rules involved (there's one I have heard proposed where the pods can come down into buildings, but may get semi-stuck/not able to open all the way, etc)?

[Polythemus]

@ tiger - Like Bryan says you need to spread out in a way that he cant land near your armor in melta range. if he has multi melta this is harder to do but then hes got to hit on sixes. Melta screening is simple, you will lose a couple marines on the first turn to his special weapons but his marines will all die because you will focus them the following turn and your armor will be protected for you to break his lite defense in rounds 3-4.

 

Scroll down abit for Mr. CAG's excellent graphical representation. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274322-how-do-you-deal-with-alpha-strike-sternguard/

 

@march10k - the opponent has a drop dop. that means anywhere he drops he needs 5" clearance plus 1" of buffer zone all the way around. all you need to do is form circles of troops at specific ranges to counter his ability to drop. I think that dwa while excellent still needs gw permission via faq to reserve all, as the jury is still out on that one. However screening can work and is a proven method to deal with drop pods.

[Artemid]

I also notice you're running no heavy weapons in any of those tac squads. I know the sixers have the RB but I think it contributes to a lack in firepower to help shoot back with. Even in a normal game, you'd be able to maybe shoot out the top hatches of the two Rhinos with them... to save points I would consider using DWK with the Choppy instead of a command squad.

[Apahllo]

Warlord: Interrogator-chaplain Mordecai (Terminator armor, Mace of Redemption)-175pts

Command: Deathwing command squad (5 Termies, x2 TH/S, x2 lightning claws, Champion, Banner of foritude)-320pts

 

Elite 1: Mortis Dreadnaught (x2 autocannons)-125pts

 

Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man,, melta gun, Combi-melta, melta bombs, rhino)-210pts

 

Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, flamer, Combi-flamer, melta bombs Rhino)-205pts

 

Troop 3: Tactical squad (5 man, Plasma rifle, combi-plasma, TLLC razorback)-180pts

Troop 4: Tactical squad (5 man, Plasma rifle, combi-plasma, TLLC razorback)-180pts

F/A1: Black knight squadron (6 man, x2 ravenwing grenade launchers)-267

H/S 1: Land Raider crusader (multi-melta)-260pts

 

This is around the same thing I used, even if the points are slightly off. Couldn't find the original list. 

 

also it seems I was stupid and played with a list that was 45pts over for the past three months X__X I guess I should always double check my math...

id drop the razorbacks and keeps the rhinos, drop the commandsquad as well for a 10 man termie squad with plasma cannons:). i rarely find razorbacks effective, because i dont take 5 man units, who just seem like they are going to be slaughtered by a good doubletap. and the knights would be a good choice to keep in reserve. 

i like the chap with ap3 mace but have you ever tried running a librarian? ezekiel might be your man, mind worm his important models before assault then use the 10 man deathstar unit instead of the 5 to run through his grey hunters.

[march10k]

Poly,

 

I understand the theory involved, what I'm saying is that it's easy enough to do that on your half of the board, but the idea that you can make it impossible to drop at all is...far-fetched. 

[Tiger9gamer]

I know about librarians... Every time I post that git someone pops in saying that X-X I know they may be better, but I don't like warlords that can kill themselves. just my preference. maybe I should bold, underline, and italicize the words "I don't like libbies all that much in my armies" for every army list post...

 

 

And I see the thing, but what if he drops in the middle of the circle? and to be honost, he had a butload of plasma, too. 

[march10k]

He's not allowed to drop in the middle of the circle if you make it the right size.  His models may not come within 1" of yours except in the assault phase.  Anyway, forget the olympic rings strategy, it only works when you have craptons of models to work with, and even then, it really just keeps him from dropping in your deployment zone, or anywhere else you can set up those rings by the time he drops.  It's gimmicky, it's hard to make it work, and it's an abuse of the rules in any case ("real" world, the drop pod squishes your models!).  MEQs rarely have enough models to make it work.  What you do have enough models for is to bubble-wrap your expensive stuff.  Make him shoot those meltaguns at plain old boltgun-toting marines.  Then blow him off the board with return fire.  DA is pretty much the shootiest flavor of marines, so harness that.  Castle up in a corner with the banner of devastation behind layer after layer of power-armored battle brothers, and let him drop.  Four shots per boltgun later, and Bob's your uncle! 

[Apahllo]

Fair enough, I'm just throwing out suggestions because they have worked for me.

[Tiger9gamer]

hmmm, okay. I have to try again, only with a different army I made up. So what about wolfs in general?

[Polythemus]

Tiger i think you would be immensely helped by looking for some batreps and for info on the codexes your having trouble with. Arming yourself with info is the best way to learn how to defeat an opponent. Plus theres a thread in the tactica forum which if you search kind of chronicles different strengths and weakness for any opponent you might face. Since wolves have an older codex, they arent likely to be outdated in the tactics to use against them.

 

Anyway, forget the olympic rings strategy, it only works when you have craptons of models to work with, and even then, it really just keeps him from dropping in your deployment zone, or anywhere else you can set up those rings by the time he drops. It's gimmicky, it's hard to make it work, and it's an abuse of the rules in any case ("real" world, the drop pod squishes your models!). MEQs rarely have enough models to make it work.

 

The list posted had thirty marines, that should enable you to make the olympic rings strategy (catchy title by the way) work. We are all constraind to the rules of the game, real world has nothing to do with it. the reason to take drop pods is to try to wreck your opponent first turn. The place they are gonna hit/be dangerous is your drop zone, later on in the game their effect is mitigated so they are less likely to damage your strategy. screening your opponent is bubble wrapping and it works to protect your armor or valuble units, so really we are advocating for the same thing. ;)

 

Using the same usage of spacing we can take away other "strengths" from our opponents. When a necron lord dies and his unit is destroyed, you can negate his everliving roll by consolidating out 2" from the spot where he died. In my book thats a good play and gives me a better chance of winning, just like it will for you.