Interceptors can now embark Rhinos, can't they?

[Gentlemanloser]

It's just hit me.  Interceptors are 'bulky' which means they take up 2 spaces in a transport.

 

But I can't find anything restricting them from embarking Rhinos (or razorbacks, if the squad is small enough).

 

Our Rhinos/Backs can't transport Terminators, but I couldn't see anything about Interceptors.

 

Granted, there's the restriction of tem not being able to purcase a Rhino/Back as a dedicated transport, and the question of why?, but it's an option.

 

Maybe you want to protect them from Helldrakes and still pew pew your Psycannons.  Or have a 5 man Squad in a Chimera, and shoot thier Bolters from its safety.

 

Still, not sure I'll ever do this.

[dswanick]

Short answer, no.

 

Long answer, Interceptors are Infantry with Personal Teleporters wargear. PTs make the model Jump Infantry. Jump Infantry are prohibited from embarking in transports unless that transport has a rule which specifically allows JI to embark - such as the Storm Raven (BRB,pg 78)

[Gentlemanloser]

LoL! Fah!

 

I checked the Jump Infantry unit type section, but didn't check the Transport Vehicle section...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Not sure why you'd ever put them in a Rhino either. They already have excellent mobility

[Jolemai]

Putting them in a Rhino is not to help their mobility. It is to safe guard them from things such as a Helldrake.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Putting them in a Rhino is not to help their mobility. It is to safe guard them from things such as a Helldrake. 

But it won't? CSM have no issue blowing up a Rhino Turn 1

 

 

[Gentlemanloser]

Depends on how many NDKs you've shunted in thier face! :P

[IndigoJack]

 

 

Putting them in a Rhino is not to help their mobility. It is to safe guard them from things such as a Helldrake. 

But it won't? CSM have no issue blowing up a Rhino Turn 1

 

 

 

Unless their AT is heldrakes, spawn and autocannons havocs, then they might pop it turn one. Throw in night fight and a rhino in cover and it gets much more difficult.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Unless their AT is heldrakes, spawn and autocannons havocs, then they might pop it turn one. Throw in night fight and a rhino in cover and it gets much more difficult.

 Heldrakes are generally shooting up infantry. Lol @ spawn. Autocannon Havoks will shred a Rhino no problem, cover save or not. So will Obliterators. 

 

Anyway, even if the Rhino was durable as hell (and even if Jump Infantry could embark on one), its a waste of their superior mobility. 

 

 

 

 

[IndigoJack]

 

Unless their AT is heldrakes, spawn and autocannons havocs, then they might pop it turn one. Throw in night fight and a rhino in cover and it gets much more difficult.

 Heldrakes are generally shooting up infantry. Lol @ spawn. Autocannon Havoks will shred a Rhino no problem, cover save or not. So will Obliterators. 

 

Anyway, even if the Rhino was durable as hell (and even if Jump Infantry could embark on one), its a waste of their superior mobility.

 

Heldrakes can vector strike then shoot infantry. Not super awesome at anti-tank, but multiple dragons can make it work. Spawn are fast, get S5 d6 attacks against what is usually AV10 rear armor. These guys will generally trip a tanks HPs pretty fast, I've seen it happen.

 

I think you overestimate autocannon havocs. One unit gets 8 shots. That's an average of 5.33 hits. That's .89 glances and 1.78 pens with .30 shots causing an explosion. Add i cover and shrouding for night fight (which happens half the time) giving me a 3+ cover save... yeah, there's not a great chance of a squad of havocs messing up a rhino turn one. Now if they took 3, they might get one or two, but personal experience has shown me that hiding in rhinos until the heldrakes have been taken care of works most of the time. Just keep them far back to prevent a heldrake from being able to vector strike them when they fly on.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Heldrakes can vector strike then shoot infantry. Not super awesome at anti-tank, but multiple dragons can make it work. Spawn are fast, get S5 d6 attacks against what is usually AV10 rear armor. These guys will generally trip a tanks HPs pretty fast, I've seen it happen.

I guess. But it isn't something a CSM player is going to rely on. He'll most likely pop the Rhino first with something else, then BBQ the cargo with the Drake. 

Spawn are a complete waste of points, even though they are 200% better than last time. 

 

 

I think you overestimate autocannon havocs. One unit gets 8 shots. That's an average of 5.33 hits. That's .89 glances and 1.78 pens with .30 shots causing an explosion. Add i cover and shrouding for night fight (which happens half the time) giving me a 3+ cover save... yeah, there's not a great chance of a squad of havocs messing up a rhino turn one. Now if they took 3, they might get one or two, but personal experience has shown me that hiding in rhinos until the heldrakes have been taken care of works most of the time. Just keep them far back to prevent a heldrake from being able to vector strike them when they fly on.

My local CSM player routinely ganks Rhinos and Razorbacks with his auto Havoks (his Oblits do okay as well, on the one turn they're not using lascannon/plasma cannon on my infantry). He's also planning to bring Divination Daemon allies for re-rolls. Night Fight isn't something to rely on for Turn 1. Even if it does occur, it is gone Turn 2, at which point he starts murdering your armour. I also have IG, Tau, shooty Marines and Necrons locally. They all give precisely zero hoots about AV11. 

[IndigoJack]

 

 

Heldrakes can vector strike then shoot infantry. Not super awesome at anti-tank, but multiple dragons can make it work. Spawn are fast, get S5 d6 attacks against what is usually AV10 rear armor. These guys will generally trip a tanks HPs pretty fast, I've seen it happen.

I guess. But it isn't something a CSM player is going to rely on. He'll most likely pop the Rhino first with something else, then BBQ the cargo with the Drake. 

Spawn are a complete waste of points, even though they are 200% better than last time.

 

 

The biggest advantages to vector strike are that it auto-hits, no cover can be taken from it, and it can still fire at a seperate target. While it may not be a primary AT unit, it's certainly something that can be used advantageously. As far as spawn go, you're the only person I've heard say that. MoN spawn are T6, 3W beasts. Sure, they have no armor save (unless it's rolled for), but instant killing them is impossible outside melee. On top of that, T6 means landing wounds on them is hard for most weapons. Additionally, they're beasts. Turn 2 assualts are not out of the question, so unless you can kill all of them before they assault you they're going to tie you up in combat. Now admittedly, they're combat abilities aren't that great but they'll tarpit just about anything. add in a lord on a bike with a black mace and that unit becomes down right nasty.

 

 

I think you overestimate autocannon havocs. One unit gets 8 shots. That's an average of 5.33 hits. That's .89 glances and 1.78 pens with .30 shots causing an explosion. Add i cover and shrouding for night fight (which happens half the time) giving me a 3+ cover save... yeah, there's not a great chance of a squad of havocs messing up a rhino turn one. Now if they took 3, they might get one or two, but personal experience has shown me that hiding in rhinos until the heldrakes have been taken care of works most of the time. Just keep them far back to prevent a heldrake from being able to vector strike them when they fly on.

My local CSM player routinely ganks Rhinos and Razorbacks with his auto Havoks (his Oblits do okay as well, on the one turn they're not using lascannon/plasma cannon on my infantry). He's also planning to bring Divination Daemon allies for re-rolls. Night Fight isn't something to rely on for Turn 1. Even if it does occur, it is gone Turn 2, at which point he starts murdering your armour. I also have IG, Tau, shooty Marines and Necrons locally. They all give precisely zero hoots about AV11.

 

 

It's not that I don't think autocannon havocs aren't good, but they're not likely going to strip all my mech away early on. In my experience, they're chance of popping a transport first turn has been 50/50. While I can't count on night fight, my opponent can't count on it not being night fight. Not to mention that if my psyfledreads are still alive or my stormraven is on the board they need to focus on those and try to cripple my AA. I've found the "hide in my rhino until the heldrakes are gone" tactic to work most of the time. And other shooty armies? Meh, my mech generally survives long enough to do its job. And now that broadsides are S8, my mech feels a little more comfortable.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

The biggest advantages to vector strike are that it auto-hits, no cover can be taken from it, and it can still fire at a seperate target. While it may not be a primary AT unit, it's certainly something that can be used advantageously. As far as spawn go, you're the only person I've heard say that. MoN spawn are T6, 3W beasts. Sure, they have no armor save (unless it's rolled for), but instant killing them is impossible outside melee. On top of that, T6 means landing wounds on them is hard for most weapons. Additionally, they're beasts. Turn 2 assualts are not out of the question, so unless you can kill all of them before they assault you they're going to tie you up in combat. Now admittedly, they're combat abilities aren't that great but they'll tarpit just about anything. add in a lord on a bike with a black mace and that unit becomes down right nasty.

Knights have zero issue killing Spawn in melee. I'm pretty sure even Strikes could slap a few down before dying. I usually see Black Mace on a Prince locally, so I haven't fought that Biker Lord combo. It melts when it hits your Terminators or Purifiers though...

 

 

It's not that I don't think autocannon havocs aren't good, but they're not likely going to strip all my mech away early on. In my experience, they're chance of popping a transport first turn has been 50/50. While I can't count on night fight, my opponent can't count on it not being night fight. Not to mention that if my psyfledreads are still alive or my stormraven is on the board they need to focus on those and try to cripple my AA. I've found the "hide in my rhino until the heldrakes are gone" tactic to work most of the time. And other shooty armies? Meh, my mech generally survives long enough to do its job. And now that broadsides are S8, my mech feels a little more comfortable.

They'll won't kill more than a single tank Turn 1, but CSM have multiple anti-tank units (at least, their better builds do). Unless you're taking Henchmen you won't have much armour in the field, so they can focus their firepower pretty easily. 

 

Broadsides are still AP1, so insta-gib pens are likely. Tau also have multiple fusion platforms for point removal of armour, so again, I'm not seeing a Rhino lasting long. Then of course they have missile pods and missile drones as options, so S7 glances could do it as well. 

[IndigoJack]

Reclusiarch Darius, on 06 May 2013 - 04:44, said:

Knights have zero issue killing Spawn in melee. I'm pretty sure even Strikes could slap a few down before dying. I usually see Black Mace on a Prince locally, so I haven't fought that Biker Lord combo. It melts when it hits your Terminators or Purifiers though...

I don't think you understand how hard it is to kill spawn in melee. In all likely hood, spawn are going to get the jump on you. T6 spawn ersus a unit of strikes, strikes are going to hit first with 11 attacks. That's 7.3 attacks landing with an average 1.22. That number obviously goes down as you take casualties. I'm not saying killing some of them is hard (thanks to force weapons), but strikes winning is an unlikely event.

 

Terminators will certainly do a number on a lord with a mace, but purifiers are going to have a hard time. Even if they go first, a lord on a bike with MoN is T6, since the lord has to challenge, the first round will be against your knight of the flame unless you bow out, reducing the number of attacks you get since he can't participate. unless you've taken more than 5 purifiers, it's not really likely they'll do the job.

They'll won't kill more than a single tank Turn 1, but CSM have multiple anti-tank units (at least, their better builds do). Unless you're taking Henchmen you won't have much armour in the field, so they can focus their firepower pretty easily.

 

Broadsides are still AP1, so insta-gib pens are likely. Tau also have multiple fusion platforms for point removal of armour, so again, I'm not seeing a Rhino lasting long. Then of course they have missile pods and missile drones as options, so S7 glances could do it as well.

My 1500 mech army has 3 psybacks, 2 rhinos, 2 psyfleman and a stormraven. At 2k, add in 2 chimeras and a vendetta. Clearly, other army builds have different experiences but my army has had no problem surviving alpha strikes vs my mech and even having some mech survive until the end of the game.

 

I wasn't saying that tau can't mess up mech, they most certainly can. I just meant that it's nice that a single broadsides chance of blowing up AV11 went down from 31% to 19%, which is not something I'd call likely in either case.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

I don't think you understand how hard it is to kill spawn in melee. In all likely hood, spawn are going to get the jump on you. T6 spawn ersus a unit of strikes, strikes are going to hit first with 11 attacks. That's 7.3 attacks landing with an average 1.22. That number obviously goes down as you take casualties. I'm not saying killing some of them is hard (thanks to force weapons), but strikes winning is an unlikely event.

Oh yeah, Strikes die to Orks and Guard blobs in melee, not saying they're great at all. But, if they proc force weapons, they can insta-gib if they wound. 

 

 

Terminators will certainly do a number on a lord with a mace, but purifiers are going to have a hard time. Even if they go first, a lord on a bike with MoN is T6, since the lord has to challenge, the first round will be against your knight of the flame unless you bow out, reducing the number of attacks you get since he can't participate. unless you've taken more than 5 purifiers, it's not really likely they'll do the job.

I'd definitely challenge. Flame Knight soaks up the damage the squad would take, the squad then turns on force weapons and hopes for 6's to wound. It's a bad matchup, but the Purifiers are cheaper so I'm not especially unhappy with that trade. 

 

 

My 1500 mech army has 3 psybacks, 2 rhinos, 2 psyfleman and a stormraven. At 2k, add in 2 chimeras and a vendetta. Clearly, other army builds have different experiences but my army has had no problem surviving alpha strikes vs my mech and even having some mech survive until the end of the game.

Seeing as even their basic S5 shooting (which is everywhere) can glance your Rhinos chassis to death, and Broadsides will Interceptor that Raven when it comes on...even at 2k, I'm not seeing armour saturation that will worry Tau or IG. 

YMMV, of course. My local playerbase are used to the bad old days of mech IG, plus my 4+ cover Devilfish, so wrecking transports is something people still build for. If you went Henchmen Mech, might be different...I just think vehicles have gotten hit so hard with the nerf bat, infantry are a better investment.