Space Wolves vs Grey Knights

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

I will be taking part in a tournament in Switzerland and I have seen that Grey Knights are the biggest faction at the tournament.

Do any of you have advice about what to look out for.

How dangerous are their Standard troops? How many bodies can they field. What difference does Corteaz make? Whats with the Ordo Xenos anti plasma Inquisitor, Any No-Brainer Lists?

 

 

[dswanick]

Power weapons everywhere mean your 3+ is irrelevant.

The changes to Rapidfire will help mitigate some of their OP shooting.

The myth of their "low body count" is contrasted by the reality of Henchman scoring troops (sub-100pts for 5-6 4+ dudes w/ Bolters in Razorbacks).

With the enhancements Plasma has seen in 6th, expect to see a Plasma Syphon (although it fortunately is short ranged).

[Marshall Bretton]

if you take runepriests though, any actual grey knight units will be severely hampered as you dispel anything they try to do on a 4+

that only makes them slightly less dangerous though as dswanick said, they have ap3 weps across the board

 

stay out of cc and take lots of plasma/melta would be my advice.

max out rune priests as well to give you the anti psyker

 

do thunderwolves work well against gk?, they only have a 3+ save, but can get a 3++ and if they are near a rp then instant death becomes less of a problem (from force weapons) and their t5 will make them hard to wound, so their 2 wounds will mean they can probably survive to hit back, and they have a good chance of punching through term armour

 

if you do spec for cc then i would take things like axes and fists. chances are that your opponent will have lots of halberds so will be going at i6. if you are going to be going last you might as well do some damage with it

[Squark]

I think some people are overplaying the CC threat of Grey Knights a bit. Or at least, the threat of Strike Knights. At the end of the day, AP3 aside, they've got a tactical Marine's statline, but cost 4 more points. Strike knights don't take halberds (or at least, people who know what they're doing don't)- You simply can't afford to pay the price of a Sternguard for them. Provided you can strip them of their force multiplies., Close Combat becomes a relatively even battle between Grey Hunters and Strike Knights- But you paid 5 fewer points for your guys. Terminators are more specialized in assault, but outside of it they're no more durable than Strike knights point for point (Remember, they cost twice as much, and against anything other than AP 3 (Which you don't have much of), they're only twice as likely to survive. Ergo, equal survivability point for point), and they've got half the shooting potential. Psy-riflemen dreadnaughts Have roughly comparable shooting to Long Fangs (4 twin-linked S8 AP 4 shots compared to 5 S8 AP3/S4 AP 6 blasts), and the price difference is negligible.

Basic troop-wise, it's pretty comes down to tactics; Both armies have very strong troop choices, and any advantages Strike Knights get over you is mitigated by the point cost.

On stripping those force multipliers away; The Runic Weapon should suffice for anti-hammerhand duty, and will do a decent job at shutting down prescience-based inquisitors. That leaves the stuff that isn't psychic.

-Brotherhood Champions let their squad re-roll to hit on the turn they charge, much like a chaplain would. Be aware of the Brotherhood champion's other abilities, though. While he's only got 1 wound, he can tarpit fairly effectively with a re-rollable 2+/3++, and if you don't have a runic weapon nearby, expect him to take any HQ that kills him in a challenge with him.

-Grenade Caddies: Psykotroke grenades can be a pain in the arse especially since it's hard to plan for what they'll do, while Rad Grenades stack wonderfully with hammerhand (Combined, Grey Knights can wound other marines on a 2+). However, most armies won't have more than 1-2.

-Grand Strategy: While it's most frequently used for scoring Dreadknights and Dreadnaughts, it can also give Counter Attack, scouts, or... I forget the other ability. anyway, be aware of what has it and what that unit will use it for.

-Improved Aegis: Don't expect to get Psychic powers off if you target something under a Dreadnaught's protection. However, Jaws doesn't target...

Now, the real game changers are going to be Dreadknights and Henchmen.

-Dreadnights are definately a threat. However, they also inevitably end up costing as much as a land raider by the time they're done. The Heavy Incinerator is nice, but it's still only AP4. Be prepared to lose squads to this, however.

-Henchmen can be a tricky beast. Without Coteaz (Granted, only Grand Masters are really competing with him for the first HQ choice), they've only got 1-2 units, though, and they're not scoring. Henchmen squads are generally the Grey Knights primary source of conventional weaponry (Lascannons, Plasmaguns, and Meltaguns). Alternatively, they end up being the single deadliest CC unit in the codex apart from perhaps the Dreadknight.

--Shooty Warbands come in a couple of flavors. Psykers will force you to stick to cover with that pie-plate, but their chances of getting it off drop like a rock once the Rune Priest is in range with his Runic Weapon (I'm going to miss that thing when it inevitably gets the nerf-bat). Warrior Accolytes are their only source of melta and plasma-weaponry outside of allies, although the Storm Bolter acolyte is 7 points for a BS 3 storm bolter (Fear this, if it can be spammed). As for Jokaero, they're priced comparably to a Lascannon toting long fang, but also pack a force multiplying ability, a multi-melta, and a heavy flamer. On the other hand, they're only T3 with a 5++. As such, ablative henchmen are required to make them work.

--Assault Warbands typically take 3-5 Crusaders with Power Axes (Giving them a decent amount of AP 2, and 3++ saves in the front line), while the rest of the warband is made up of Death Cult Assassins, who will probably be packing Swords and Power Mauls, probably with a few axes in for emergencies). 1-2 warrior acolytes with Meltabombs is a reasonably common addition as well, to give them an anti-dreadnaught attack. This unit is scary enough by itself, but with an Ordo Xenos inquisitor with Grenades and Prescience, or a grenade Caddy techmarine giving them hammerhand? It. Will. Eat. Entire. Squads. Whole. However... they really, really want a dedicated transport. Due to the natural Invulnerable save, they do reasonably well in Stormravens, but they also really do well in Land Raider Redeemers.

Coteaz is... Well, he may be the single most broken HQ in the game. He's comparable to a 6th edition Librarian in most respects, but he also packs yet more deep strike defense, can force re-rolls of the Seize the initiative roll, and lets the Grey Knights spam henchmen. On the plus side... Well, he doesn't have Psychotroke Grenades or Rad Grenades. Also, TOs who know what they're doing will give the Grey Knight player a very low Comp score for taking him (Granted, more and more TOs lack the understanding of how to properly give a Comp score out).

[ZayWolf]

Personally ive been playing GK competitively since the new codex came out and whenever i play wolves 95% of the time i end up winning

 

with the addition of 6th edition flyers most people are taking a librarian+Coteaz combo unlocking CHeap troops and then taking purifiers CHEAP halbreads & 4 psycannon spam PER squad that can be allowed to re-roll all hits and or ignores cover because of coteaz/lib. ive never had a problem downing flyers with 16 twin-linked s7 ending shots even while needing 6's, hell gk bolters at s5 can glance some and i pretty much laugh at terminator squads when i have that much weight of fire in a 10man squad

 

the icing on the cake is the double dreadknight or stormraven combo, 4w Character MC's that with one i10 hammer of wrath attack can force weapon you off the field, followed by the 4 stregnth 10 attacks OR in the armour 12 all around stormravens case, a ridiculous amount of s5, s7 and s8 fire power, not to mention the mindstrike missles that auto perils any psyker along with adition wounds, so kiss your rune priest good bye

-

 

Now me as a wolf player i would go back field gunline, 2-3 squads of full splitfire long fangs 2ML/3LC or vise versa, with a rune priest casting prescience, followed by 2-3 dreads with either auto cannons or lascannons behind an agies/ruin and watch as dread knights that even shunt right into your face first turn are pummeled into the ground with the amount of fire. With so much high strength weapons that are potentially twin-linked flyers shouldnt be a problem either

 

When it comes to troops keep it simple, 2-3 10man Grey Hunters with flamer/melta in drop pods have always gotten the job done for me, hell if you want to you can split a Wolf guard pack into the grey hunters and get a combi-weapon in there also for a extra bit of power

 

and against horde armies like nids drop pod in those grey hunters on the flanks shoot the little guys down and watch as the long fang/dreads have open shots at the big bugs

 

BUT STAY OUT OF CLOSE COMBAT BECAUSE GREY KNIGHTS WILL KILL WOLVES HANDS DOWN

 

The ONLY cc we have at the moment to counter all those ap3 weapons are terminator wolf guard with SS/TH, even with 5 attacks dreadknights cant handle 8-10 Termies with SS/TH

 

if the most players are geared more for cc then Loganwing terminators with Long fang support is the way to go

 

hope this helps brother, let Russ's strength and wisdom be upon you that tournament!

[Kassill]

Best unit I've fielded against Grey Knights so far is a 5 strong Thunderwolf Pack with 3 stormshields and a Thunder Hammer. Rune Priest rolled up the (Biomancy?) spell that gives a friendly unit Feel No Pain (and something else I believe, sorry BRB not on hand). They held Draigo and 5-6 man paladin squad up for most of the game, leaving my Grey Hunters and Long Fangs to deal with his Dreadknight, Dreadnought, and strike squads.

 

I know it's not going to be guaranteed to roll that spell all the time, but I'd be confident to run that same unit (+2 two more shields) and throw them into the fray again.

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

Thanx for the detailed advice. If the grey knights bring henchmen..... which they most probably will, because the 3 games in the tournament are all about capturing 5 mission objectives..... I have the stuff to kill em quickly. My List includes 2 x Droppods one with 5 X TDA and one with 10 X GH plasma spam. Will use them to set up a gunline with cover. I will make sure that my units are all within support range.

 

Thanx for the detailed advice. If the grey knights bring henchmen..... which they most probably will, because the 3 games in the tournament are all about capturing 5 mission objectives..... I have the stuff to kill em quickly. My List includes 2 x Droppods one with 5 X TDA and one with 10 X GH plasma spam. Will use them to set up a gunline with cover. I will make sure that my units are all within support range.

[WhiteShepherd]

I win my games about 75-80% of the time... except when i play this list, and i haven't come close once... HELP!!!

Good friend of mine plays draigo and a blob of 10 paladins with coteaz... with 4 psy cannons

 

all of his units don't let me deepstrike within 12 inches or it's a mishap, of ANY of his units for the most part, so the whole board gets blanketed, aka my drop pod lists doesn't work... and anything that comes out of reserve within 12 inches of coteaz the entire unit he is with gets to shoot at it, full BS... so thats 4 psycannons + stormbolters shooting at EVERY unit... it wipes out literally whatever comes out of a drop pod.

His tactics are to push draigo up front and just walk up the field, shooting stuff.  I play Wolves with guard allies (2 demolishers, 2 vendettas, a vet squad with meltas and marbo)

problem is, demolishers shooting at it get eaten up because he spreads dudes out and draigo can eat a few 3+ invuls and look out sir the other couple of wounds... vendettas can kill a couple per turn MAYBE because of their invul saves

How on earth do i beat this unit?!!  Only thing I can think of is ally with marines and take cheap assault termies with TH/SS and teleport around with a librarian, BUT they are probably making marine psychic powers random just like eldar so that tactic isn't reliable... literally get wrecked by this army every. effing. time. 

[Rift Blade]

I've played Grey Knights only 4 times for 1 loss 1 tie & 2 wins. I have to honestly say that the guy playing them was really good at not maxing the shenanigans so I think that was why I won. I ran TWC in all the games supported by a maxed out pack of GH w/WGPL & RP w/MH. Slammed the TWC into Draigo & then piled in the GH with the Wstd. Made sure MOW was in base with Draigo as well as at least 1 TWC & lots of dice rolling later, over. Never had much left in any game but that's the way it seems against GK's. My 2 cents anyways. Good luck.

[WhiteShepherd]

The issue i have with TWC is a) points, b) they get shot too easy... even with SS.  Overwatch alone against a 10 man blob with prescience and 4 psycannons can likely make you take about 5 saves... And frankly this edition looks like its making power armor not worth it's points... we pay a lot more to go from 50-33% chances of saving our units which sounds great but, in the long run maybe not worth the cost, right now at least... but thats another issue.

I LOVE my TWC, I will try this unit out against them, and maybe charge some little terd lone wolf in there to absorb overwatch... I been thinking about trying a larger 5 man squad led by a lord and fenrisian wolves.  I have been allying with guard taking 2 demolishers and 2 vendettas which I probably would need to drop due to points cost of TWC.