Are mass-zombie armies good?

[Roma]

Recently I made a zombie list with typhus and huron (to infiltrate those zombies, mmmnnnn).

 

Before I get a ton of them, does anyone play lists with these and find them good?

[Brother Ambroz]

I believe it is considered one of the competitive lists right now although most people would find it very annoying with the huge model count (each turn taking a half hour to an hour to move all those zombies).

[Roma]

Thanks for the quick reply. Good to hear.

[Tenebris]

I cannot say that I have played zombie hordes but I have extensive experience with IG hordes. You have bodies, you have resilience and you have the possibility to simply drown your adversaries with your dice numbers. All in all the strategy combined with the basic USR given to zombies and paired with a Helldrake or two will grant you a number of victories. So yeah on paper such an army is a powerhouse...but...

 

Have you ever tried to place 140 models at the start of a game, move at least a hundred of them each turn and roll hundreds of dice per turn...well here is why I have moved from IG hordes to a more manageable PA army. It tires you, it tires your opponent and makes for a very boring game. 

 

So you will win by mathematics more than to skill, bodies, attacks and saves are in your favor, you are bound to win most fights or to outlast your adversaries by numbers alone, and I guarantee you that if you do not outright win you will have at least most of the objectives covered and plenty of secondary objectives completed, which will always rent you a good position in your club boards. So if you loose you will loose by a small margin for hardly anything has the power and the numbers to deal with 130+ units. 

 

So it is an interesting experience, great for beginner players but less so for your adversaries who will be bored by turn two.

[d@n]

its all relative. most lists are designed to kill marines and not hordes, so most lists want be able to deal with that many models. play tons of zombies and you'll win a few games until all the space marine players start breaking out 3x thunderfire cannons the space wolves players start taking 15 missile launchers ork players can take 9 kannons and play the same list just better ect  and tabling you in a few turns. thats the problem with 1 trick armys.

[AekoldHelbrass]

Zombies are THE unit, the only disadvantage is Typhus. Basically they are ultimate tarpiting unit for us, they can take a lot of damage, and unlike cultists they will not run. It can take up to 3 turns for BA assault combat squad to wipe out 10 zombies, by that time your heavy hitters should do enough damage to their army.

 

I prefer them as MSU, units of 10. It takes most of opponents exactly 1 turn to charge and wipe out 10 zombies, and they are open to your shooting for another round (not being locked in CC), then you can charge with another unit of zombies and there will be 2-3 models left for the next turn. And again, unlike cultist, they will stand still under heavy fire.

[Azekai]

its all relative. most lists are designed to kill marines and not

hordes, so most lists want be able to deal with that many models. play

tons of zombies and you'll win a few games until all the space marine

players start breaking out 3x thunderfire cannons the space wolves

players start taking 15 missile launchers ork players can take 9 kannons

and play the same list just better ect  and tabling you in a few turns.

thats the problem with 1 trick armys.

 

Well, sure, if people tailor against an army they are more likely to win. That's obvious. However, most all-comers lists are going to have a lot of trouble dealing with such hordes.

 

By the way, are movement trays not in vogue? I play Moria goblins in LoTR and movement trays are the biggest timesavers ever. Just get some that evenly space out your undead to protect them from blasts and templates! 

 

 

[Warsmith Aznable]

Movement trays would not work with 99% of the tables I've played on because of the terrain. For closely packed formations in fantasy style battles is one thing, but with troop dispersal and ruins all over a board I could see it being more of a hindrance. But I've never tried it, so there is that.

[hornywingythingy]

Yeah, massed horde armies, unless you are insanely quick, or very static are just too slow.... Played an ork army in a tournie at the weekend, he was so slow we only finished three turns, and he didn't really get a chance at a win because he hadn't gotten near my objectives, but I contested his and got first blood and linebreaker, it wasn't even an enjoyable win , because it was half a game.

 

My army was really fun to play though, lots of fast moving beasts with cheap scoring to hold objectives and some oblit fire support.

[DodgyManuvas]

I've been running a termicide list with 3 x 20 zombie squads.

 

The zombies are THE BOMB for tarpitting stuff and objective sitting. It takes a good deal of firepower to shift 'em, which in turn isn't being directed at your heavy hitters. Typhus is pretty useful when he comes in on his own w/ a couple of mono-oblits and a termi squad. A pair of drakes backing that lot up and it's a nasty combo. Heavily dependant on getting your reserves in together.

 

Thumbs up for zombies.

[Zhorzh]

Having an army centered around models who work only in CC and move up to 6" in the movement phase and can't move in the shooting phase is a very bad idea. I know that from experience, I've tried playing CC Carnifexes in 4th Ed (there was no Running back then) and that sucked. A lot.

[Azekai]

Having an army centered around models who work only in CC and move up to 6" in the movement phase and can't move in the shooting phase is a very bad idea. I know that from experience, I've tried playing CC Carnifexes in 4th Ed (there was no Running back then) and that sucked. A lot.

 

Apples and oranges. You weren't running 300 reallly cheap carnifexes. The idea isn't to kill the opponent with a zombie list, it is to tarpit everything, all the time, forever. 

[Ravenfeld]

 

Having an army centered around models who work only in CC and move up to 6" in the movement phase and can't move in the shooting phase is a very bad idea. I know that from experience, I've tried playing CC Carnifexes in 4th Ed (there was no Running back then) and that sucked. A lot.

 

Apples and oranges. You weren't running 300 reallly cheap carnifexes. The idea isn't to kill the opponent with a zombie list, it is to tarpit everything, all the time, forever. 

 

Also, if you could field 120 Carnifexes you would NEVER lose.

[zyl-]

I'm not sure why it takes so long to move these squads. Do you all measure for each individual model every time? I just measure the front models and then estimate the remainder. I've also seen measure the front, measure the back, and fill in the middle.

[TheDevourer]

The difficulty is making sure all models are in cover of some sorts, aswell as blocking a lot of model from LOS to ensure that some models cannot be taken down by enemy shooting, then you also have to ensure that typhus is hidden well enough, that enough zombies are within look out sir so typhus can allocate all template wounds to them if necessary. Then you have to make sure that your zombies are spaced out well enoigh without blocking each other, awell as ensuring that your drakes can move onto the table to where you want them before knowing if they will arrive. The amount of bodies on the table can make it hard to be able to play with flyers. Then you have to try and block enemy flyers from moving where they want to move. This will take a long time for people not used to playing the list. But I have seen it played fairly quickly, since you don´t have the ability to run or shoot, this kind of speeds up the turn duration in comparison to orc hordes. And once the models start falling which they tend to do fairly quickly, the turns take a lot less time. 

[Cmdr Shepard]

 

So you will win by mathematics more than to skill, bodies, attacks and saves are in your favor, you are bound to win most fights or to outlast your adversaries by numbers alone, and I guarantee you that if you do not outright win you will have at least most of the objectives covered and plenty of secondary objectives completed, which will always rent you a good position in your club boards. So if you loose you will loose by a small margin for hardly anything has the power and the numbers to deal with 130+ units. 

 

But what about armies who can bring a lot of anti-horde weapons? I'm thinking about Tau because they are the most recent army. A Riptide with Ion accelarator boosted with ignore cover and reroll from the Commander will be able to kill a lot of zombies... can we assume with marklights and rerolls he will hit about 10 models killing about 8 each turn for 48 in 6 turns? A couple of hammerheads with submunition will deliver ID wounds to zombies, thus negating FnP... can we also assume with the table full of zombies those hammerhead will kill about 5 models each per turn, thus 60 zombies in 6 turns? We already reached 108 dead zombies. I didn't make precise calculations, they are just "intuitions" but I believe there are armies quite capable of dealing with hordes. 

 

Obviously a standard list for an elite army will have a lot of troubles in dealing with all of those models but armies with a lot of blast weapons and ignore cover option will have a good chance to counter them. In the Tau example they will fear heldrakes more than zombies since their torrent weapon will decimate fire warriors and pathfinders with ease ;) 

 

Just my opinion, though, and I agree with you: playing zombies hordes is boring

[Fibonacci]

Here's a quick horde list

Typhus - 230 points

5X Zombie troop(25) - 110 points each, 550 total

3X Heldrake - 510 points total

 

Sorc lvl2, jump pack, sigal, Burning Brand - 155 points

5X Zombie troop(25) - 110 points each, 550 total

1995 totl points. 255 models

 

So ... you can kill about 43% of the zombies in 6 turns. That leaves well over 100 more to capture objectives, deny objectives and prevent the enemy from entering half the board.

 

The biggest draw back is leaving holes for your own Heldrakes to move into and painting 250 zombies.

[TheDevourer]

How are you playing 10 Troop choices?

[Fibonacci]

at 2000 points? easy, I don't take the other 2 allowed.

[Ravenfeld]

Eh my store doesn't go past 1999+1 in casual settings.

 

And if you are using expanded force org they could just take more of the heavy duty firepower that was mentioned to drop more templates that ignore cover.. its all hypothetical anyway.

 

Frankly i like the idea of the Zombie Horde from a Thematic stand point. Plague Zombies really make me "feel" the presence of nurgle on the battlefield, even more so than Plague Marines who are zombified super humans. In combination I really feel you get this slow moving - horror movie effect and it really "forges a narrative" in my head. While I can see the disadvantage being really protracted movement phases combined with arduous placement shenanigans, I still think it wouldn't be any worse than a giant foot slogging Ork or Gaunt list, save that it lacks shooting as has been mentioned.

 

On the other hand if you make a list like Fibon suggested I could see that as getting extremely tedious because 250 models without shooting would get stale fast. Why not just take 75 zombies or something for flavor and have other units to play with? I mean if the point is to have fun I can't see that as being fun for anyone, yourself included. Feels like playing just for the sake of playing... in other words a waste of time in my mind.

 

-- Get to the store, find a person to play against, spend 45 minutes getting your models out, spend 30 minutes setting up models, spend 30 minutes playing before you or your opponent table flips out of boredom, spend 45 minutes putting your models back, go home. Hahaha!

[TheDevourer]

Ah ok. It´s just you listed 1995 points :D, my brain just lagged out and screamed no double FOC :D

[Cmdr Shepard]

Here's a quick horde list

Typhus - 230 points

5X Zombie troop(25) - 110 points each, 550 total

3X Heldrake - 510 points total

 

Sorc lvl2, jump pack, sigal, Burning Brand - 155 points

5X Zombie troop(25) - 110 points each, 550 total

1995 totl points. 255 models

 

So ... you can kill about 43% of the zombies in 6 turns. That leaves well over 100 more to capture objectives, deny objectives and prevent the enemy from entering half the board.

 

The biggest draw back is leaving holes for your own Heldrakes to move into and painting 250 zombies.

 

But the 43% of the zombies are killed by just 3  units (plus the supporting-not shooting commander) in my example. The Tau army I used for the example would have much other units on the field not just 3-4 ;)

[Gaius Atticus]

Zombies vs IG footsloggers is my favourite matchup in 40k.

 

Stick some firpower behind them (or above) and Zombies can match most forces I would imagine.

[TheDevourer]

In my experience Zombie lists are good at lower points, where the fire power tends to be a lot lower as well. At 1000 Points I played Typhus, 95 Zombies and 2 Heldrakes. Worked out very well for me on numerous occasions. However, there are hard counters to the list. Making it less optimal than other builds