The Ends and the Means (WiP)

[Gripharius]

A work in progress...

[Messor]

I really like them so far. A good hook for cursed founding Chapters is hard to come by, but they've got it. I feel like I should root for one of them.

[Firepower]

The first to arrive, the Chasteners, surfaced amid a small fleet of Adeptus Astartes Strike Cruisers, a lone Battle Barge and a handful of other capital ships proudly flying the Imperial Aquila. Amid vox venerations praising the God-Emperor, the Chasteners stormed into battle, crusading against the enemies of the Imperium with a righteous zealotry reminiscent of the Black Templars.

I don't like that you explicitly compare them to the Black Templars. It feels like you are deliberately borrowing an identity from a more established Chapter. Better in my opinion to simply lay out their personality, and let the reader make those connections if and when they like.

Clad in pure white armor with gleaming gold trim, the Chasteners are fervently devoted to the worship of the God-Emperor and the Chapter proselytizes the Imperial Creed with a militant and dogmatic zeal. Amid prayerful litanies of worship to the God-Emperor, the Chasteners mercilessly inflict the Emperor's justice, heedless of the cost in innocent lives as they relentlessly persecute scorched-earth warfare to utterly annihilate the enemies of the Golden Throne.

A fanatical Chapter? Cool, tends to work. But why do they choose the Imperial Creed to follow? Most any Chapter has a dogma of their own which they can turn to with equal zeal. I would consider using the Gloaming to not just split the Chapter, but undermine its original dogma/faith system, so that they have to turn to something else in their desperation for new purpose. A revelatory and crushing 'Oh God we were sooo wrong!' moment.

Aside from declaring themselves the sons of the God-Emperor, the Chasteners dismiss any inquiries into their origins. The Chapter's history chronicles centuries of battles against heretics, traitors and xenos beyond the Emperor's Light, but omits the details of its founding. While such an omission might otherwise raise Inquisitorial ire, the Chapter's uncompromising execution of the God-Emperor's Will, as well as their unquestioning devotion to the Imperium, has proven quite useful to more than one Inquisitor. Thus, the Inquisition has been willing to look the other way, at least for now, despite the unknowns in the Chapter's origins.

I'm not sure the Inquisition really minds a Chapter without an established founding, but I'm not totally sure. They may take interest if the Chapter drew their attention for some other reason, or if the Chapter is seen as blatantly and deliberately hiding, rather than not knowing its history.

Also, do they believe they are sons of the God-Emperor (pretty pretentious and inflammatory) or the only sons of the God-Emperor (downright heretical)? Either one sounds like it would make more enemies than friends, especially among the Inquisition. Of course the Inquisition is not a singular body, so some Inquisitors may find them useful and excusable for their zeal, but that particular declaration will be very uncomfortable for others.

Also, Chastening is frankly kind of a weak word, though it does sound cool. All it means is to "have a restraining or moderating effect." Chastise is a bit more appropriate, but not as catchy.

Not long after the appearance of the Chasteners, rumors and signs of another Chapter began to swirl in the same general area of the Eastern Fringe.

Swirl?

The Chapter rarely makes planetfall by Drop Ship or Thunderhawk, preferring to fall silently upon their enemies from space using modified Grav-Chutes under the cover of darkness.

Not sure Grav-Chutes are usable with something as heavy as Power Armor or typical Marine war materiel.

Even more insidious is their unique, clandestine method of undertaking boarding actions by hurling themselves across long distances in void-sealed armor and covertly infiltrating enemy vessels in small squads through docking bays and service hatches.

Ships have all sorts of defenses which would make this impossible, some of which would fry the Deathdealers before they even made physical contact with the ship.

Without any known capital ships, the Deathdealers are apparently based out of a small space hulk adrift in the void.

Never heard of a Space Hulk being a toy of loyalist forces. Could be interesting.

this same elusiveness puts the lie to the ruse of the Chapter's aimlessly drifting hulk, as well.

Come again?

Figuratively, if they saw a man dying of thirst, they would turn a firehouse on him, and feel like they helped even if they drowned him. If asked to drive a nail into a board, they would be of the mindset that a hammer is good, so a sledgehammer would be better, and so a wrecking ball would be even better… until they end up destroying the nail and the board altogether. They're here to help... a lot.

This made me smile. It reminds me of Lenny from Mice and Men. 'Pet the bunny, pet the bunny -SNAP!- Aww, bunny sleeping...'

The "Gloaming" referred to in the summary above is a period of time during which the original Chapter was manipulated and deceived, and perhaps infiltrated, by external forces.

Could potentially be more engaging if they're destroyed from within rather than without. Meaning the failing is a result of being mislead/betrayed by one of their own kind, their own philosophy (as suggested above), or a mix of the two, like a deceitful Chaplain, Librarian, Chapter Master, what have you.

Being infiltrated sounds like 'We screwed up' while tearing apart from within is 'We are screwed up.' It feels like the latter would create more of a catastrophic moment of reflection than the former, unless infiltrators played on/exploited some fundamental facet of the original Chapter to achieve their manipulation.

The Chasteners drown out the darkness of their past with a cult-like devotion to the God-Emperor, incessantly chanting the purity of their founding as His sons until they, themselves, actually believe it.

This reeks of desperation on the part of the Chasteners. They may actually be weaker and more vulnerable for it. Something to consider and play with

The Deathdealers, however, are those could not ignore the stains of their past and instead chose to accept the burden of their curse, and to seek redemption by doing what they were born to do: killing and dying in service to the Imperium.

In concert with the last comment, these guys could be the true 'good guys' of the Chapter(s). Practicality and an admittance to past failures shows a lot more character and integrity than grasping at solace like the Chasteners have. It could create a lot of friction between the two if the Deathdealers actually acknowledge and believe that.

using stolen and sanctified alien technology to reduce the noise and weight of their armor, and so forth.

Dangerous territory. Meditate on the potential consequences and which may make for a better story. I'd avoid just playing it off or ignoring it though.

[Gripharius]

Work in progress

[RolandTHTG]

Sounds good, and another play on the paths to redemption angle. I do think that whatever crisis caused this split needs to be fluffed out some, even if the knowledge is no longer remembered in-universe. 

 

Honestly, I think that the Suit-only boardings can be et in the fluff, just not as a primary ship-boarding method. Ships on maneuver would be impossible to catch, as a drifting suit would be unable to maneuver enough to keep up. However, for docked ships, spacestations, and the occasional ships in fixed orbit around a planet, this would be a viable method. I would still mention some sort of maneuver pack being used, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manned_Maneuvering_Unit . I know of at least one sci-fi story where a version of this technique was used to get commandos onto a hostile space station, because the Space station defenses were programed to ignore space suited maintenance technicians.

In addition, from the ADB Nightlords books, we know that most defenses are only meant to find Active units (running ships, missle/torpedo engines, etc) and it is possible to have a ship 'run dark' in order to sneak into firing range of a space station. 

[Ecritter]

I like them both, if I didn't know better I'd say they were Wordbearers ... now that'd get the Inquisition looking in their direction.

[Gripharius]

A work in progress...

[Firepower]

Go with one IA.  If you have two, you'll end up with a lot of (See Article b, line 7) notes or just keep writing the same junk over again.  That would be as much an inconvenience for the reader as for you.  Better to cram it all in here, and then widdle it down with some careful editing.

[Gripharius]

Go with one IA.  If you have two, you'll end up with a lot of (See Article b, line 7) notes or just keep writing the same junk over again.  That would be as much an inconvenience for the reader as for you.  Better to cram it all in here, and then widdle it down with some careful editing.

 

Yeah, that's the way I am leaning... but I've never been great about the "careful editing" part. 

[Firepower]

 

Go with one IA.  If you have two, you'll end up with a lot of (See Article b, line 7) notes or just keep writing the same junk over again.  That would be as much an inconvenience for the reader as for you.  Better to cram it all in here, and then widdle it down with some careful editing.

 

Yeah, that's the way I am leaning... but I've never been great about the "careful editing" part. 

 

That's what the legion of butchers...er, 'Liberites' is here for.  Fat trimming.

[Gripharius]

Work in progress

[Ecritter]

nice, go with it

[Firepower]

Pretty :)  I hope you aren't planning to paint them though, with an icon that intricate :teehee:

 

Golden eye lenses may be a bit much.  A touch of red or blue would do you well there.

[Messor]

Aye, I'd recommend blue for the helmet lenses. Fantastic icon, though.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Nice badge o.0

[Dark En Raul13]

I think your idear of the inquisiton taking an intrest in them due to them appearing from beyond the eastern fringe is a good idea, it sounds like a good building block for a dark and mysterious storyline involving the chapter.

 

I also like the idea about the chasteners helping to much, it's an interesting concept to say the least

[Gripharius]

Thanks for the feedback, all.

[RolandTHTG]

The FFG Dark heresy series has some good ones in the Creatures Anathema book. They also have some good ones from their free web resources:

(1 page format, on page 3, from a creatures anathema preview: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/dark-heresy/pdf/dh-previews/Creatures%20Preview%202.pdf )

(A good Idea of the Inquisition Wanted Bulletins: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/dark-heresy/pdf/Disciples%20Web%20Enhancement.pdf )

You probably want a version of the first link, as they show you Inquisitors would pass the information about the chapters to each other. The second links are more for heretics or other rebels. 

[Octavulg]

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The first to arrive, the Chasteners, surfaced amid a small fleet of Adeptus Astartes Strike Cruisers, a lone Battle Barge and a handful of other capital ships proudly flying the Imperial Aquila. Amid vox venerations praising the God-Emperor, the Chasteners stormed into battle, crusading against the enemies of the Imperium with a righteous zealotry reminiscent of the Black Templars.

These things should stand alone, IMO. The "first to arrive" bit inherently links them to the rest of it. Then again, I don't like big linked things.

Also, unless you're trying to link them to the Black Templars, don't make such allusions.

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Clad in pure white armor with gleaming gold trim, the Chasteners are fervently devoted to the worship of the God-Emperor and the Chapter proselytizes the Imperial Creed with a militant and dogmatic zeal. Amid prayerful litanies of worship to the God-Emperor, the Chasteners mercilessly inflict the Emperor's justice, heedless of the cost in innocent lives as they relentlessly persecute scorched-earth warfare to utterly annihilate the enemies of the Golden Throne.

Good, but redundant.

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We are His punishment, His chastening, unto the enemies of Mankind!

And chasten them we shall, brothers...

Chasten them unto oblivion!

OH SNAP!

Chasten's a bit anemic, IMO. A more mighty verb might not be a bad idea (both here and for the name generally).

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Even more insidious is their unique, clandestine method of undertaking boarding actions by hurling themselves across long distances in void-sealed armor and covertly infiltrating enemy vessels in small squads through docking bays and service hatches.

The first wouldn't work. If ships are moving, you have to hurl your guys really fast, which means they splatter. It might work for infiltration of stations and the like, but it's not a particularly effective tactic in a combat situation. Plus, if it does work, they're not likely to be the only ones who do it.

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Without any known capital ships, the Deathdealers are apparently based out of a small space hulk adrift in the void. The Chapter has little outside interaction, tending to remain isolated, with an elusiveness that just borders on purposeful avoidance of contact with Imperial officials -- this same elusiveness puts the lie to the ruse of the Chapter's aimlessly drifting hulk, as well. Nevertheless, the Deathdealers have faithfully, if surreptitiously, protected the interests of the Imperium and persecuted the enemies of Mankind.

That...won't work well. You need capital ships.

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Inspired in part by the pre-Heresy Word Bearers, I came up with the idea of a Chapter that is utterly and uncompromisingly good. Faithfully, righteously, relentlessly, dogmatically good. So good, in fact, that they are bad. Not an evil Chapter pretending to be good, or a Chapter of bloodthirsty barbarians masquerading as good soldiers, but a Chapter that persecutes its faith relentlessly and dogmatically without regard to the true consequences. Figuratively, if they saw a man dying of thirst, they would turn a firehouse on him, and feel like they helped even if they drowned him. If asked to drive a nail into a board, they would be of the mindset that a hammer is good, so a sledgehammer would be better, and so a wrecking ball would be even better… until they end up destroying the nail and the board altogether. They're here to help... a lot. And they're not particularly concerned if they help you to death, because they're helping.

You seem to have ended up in a rather normal place, though. Helping to death would be neat. Right now you've got bog-standard zealots.

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In developing this first Chapter, I started thinking about what the opposite of this hyper good would be. I couldn't quit conceptualize a Chapter so evil that its actually good, except maybe in rare and very coincidental circumstances.

A chapter entirely focused on hindering the enemies of the Imperium. They pay absolutely no attention to other concerns - but this results in the liberation of sectors, the destruction of pirate dens, etc. Probably break a lot of rules, as your boys do.

Or the Alpha Legion. At least from a certain point of view.

I think you're missing opportunities in both. You're ending up in a fairly normal place, a place far less interesting than the underlying ideas (and the name Deathdealers cries out to be more evil than this). I'd recommend you do something more like this...

The Chasteners should be good. Oh-so-good. They help people. They organize relief convoys. They spread the Imperial Truth. They hunt down pirates. They protect civilians. They would never do something so horrible as Exterminatus - instead, they just tie up a sector in a war over some feral world that could never pay back the cost. Actual good, not just Imperial good. And it all ends badly, sometimes due to them and sometimes due to sheer bad luck. But what matters is that they were doing good.

I'd also give them a different name - chasten is both too wishy-washy and too finger-wagging for a strong and mighty chapter of righteousness.

The Deathdealers, on the other hand, are very, very evil - because the ends are what matters. They wipe out planets. They abandon allies when needed. They use alien tech. They consort with aliens (and possibly, on occasion, with Chaos, though the problem with Chaos is that it won't let you go. They're evil, not stupid). They'll cheerfully sign over planets to alien powers if the aliens help in a war. If Chaos cults whisper on a world, the Deathdealers will attack in the guise of Chaos raiders, wait for the enemy to reveal themselves, and then annihilate them. They love luring enemies onto unimportant worlds and then dropping virus bombs. Sure, the civilians die - but what matters is that they're doing good.

That more what you were looking for originally?

[Gripharius]

That more what you were looking for originally?

No, actually, it isn't at all, LOL. But clearly I haven't done a good job explaining either of them. You've made some good points and given me some insight into some of the flaws with what I have done so far, so I think it's back to the drawing board, in a way.

[RolandTHTG]

Octavulg, to use DnD terms, I think he wanted the Chasteners to be Lawful Stupid types, while the Deathdealers are chaotic good. 

[Gripharius]

Work in progress...

[Octavulg]

The thing is, both of those would seem to end up in a place that's quite normal and not really practical to separate from the grimdark (the first is every zealous chapter, the second every "special" DIY). The core ideas aren't that unique - they're themes that are so fundamental that almost everything in 40K is an exploration of one or both. Zealot-humanist is one of the more classic tensions of the setting (even if most of the humanism end is held up by the reader).

 

Good vs. evil, on the other hand, is almost never touched on. Tying yourself to the Imperial Creed and the Imperial Truth hampers dealing with it by dragging in the baggage from the aforementioned conflict.

 

So which are you trying to explore?

[Firepower]

The Chasteners are religious zealots. While most Astates revere the Emperor, worshiping him as a God is rare among the Chapters. Even the zealotry of the Black Templars is not based on the divine worship of him as a God. When the original Chapter split into the Chasteners and the Deathdealers, it was in part because their own Chapter cult had been manipulated and distorted, and they could know longer believe anything they thought they knew.

Well, the thing is, Chapters do not generally accept the Emperor as being a god, but they often do regard him as divine. So Templars for instance really are religious zealots, just without the G-word.

Unwilling to admit their fundamental flaw, they clung to this notion of their purety in creation by, service to and worship of the God-Emperor. This was all that mattered, because allowing anything else in meant having to deal with the curse that tore the original Chapter apart.

Again, remove the word "God," and you have a pretty standard Chapter cult, or at least one that isn't really extraordinary. The part in bold is the one odd part, and dangerous thinking. It sorta implies that they are pure simply because they were made into space marines.

This is gonna be something very hard to pull off without actually explaining what went wrong in their roots.

The Chasteners cause collateral damage because they are unable to moderate their actions in fulfillment of their beliefs. By way of analogy: if you bring them a man dying of thirst, they will drown him; if you bring them a man with a stubbed toe, they will amputate both his legs.

This sort of sounds like idiocy more than over enthusiasm. I think it would help a lot if you gave an actual, practical example rather than a metaphor.

The Deathdealers are the other side of the coin in some ways. They have replaced their lost Chapter cult with something much closer to the Imperial Truth, something that is more open to rationalism, pragmatism and science over religion and superstition.

Just remember that the Imperial Truth failed in no small part because it disregarded religion and superstition, thinking them illusions of ignorance. Part of the 40k universe is that religion and superstition actually yield results. Approaching the galaxy from a purely scientific angle generally leads to one of two bad outcomes. One, collapse, like the Imperial Truth. Two, a desire or attempt to wrangle the religion/superstition into the world of science, which would require dabbling in bad, bad things.

They embraced alien technology to give them every edge they can get.

Also very dangerous. That's not saying you shouldn't do it, simply saying that when writing you should not ignore that factor, and may have fun spitballing potential ways it could bite them in the butt.

They push their Librarians to their limits.

Why? It is a bit of a conflict of interests. As a small force, and being aware of their limited resources, the risk of a compromised psycher is huge. On the other hand, yes, they could make up for otherwise lacking firepower.

But there are consequences to opening themselves up to such things, and sometimes even their noble goals are ultimately thwarted by the short-cuts they take to acheive them.

Fun

[Gripharius]

Yeah, like I said, back to the drawing board.