Gets Hot! query

[Scout13]

Ok, I`ve had this discussion with several gaming friends and we can`t reach a conclusion.  Situation is this;

 

A plasma gun at 12" Rapid Fires.  One of its shots hits, one Gets Hot!  (Let imagine the poor Marine holding the gun survives his armour save as that`s not really relevent for the rest). 

 

The Gets Hot! shot misses; he rolled a 1 after all.  What happens to the shot that hits?  Some of our group say that the shot also counts as missed whilst others say it still hits.  In the USR description, it could be read either way as nothing explicitly says the shot misses which suggests that the shot that doesn`t Get Hot! still hits.  We also could find anything in the main rules that could solve this either.

 

Thoughts, comments?

[dswanick]

"For each To Hit roll of 1, the firing model immediately suffers a Wound", BRB, pg.37

Nothing there about the weapon not firing or hits being discounted.

[Axagoras]

How would there be any confusion, its pretty clear in the rules dswanick posted, only for blasts does a 1 cause a "miss"

[DarkGuard]

This is the way it's always worked, if you fire multiple Gets Hot shots and one of them does overheat, you still get the ones that hit, even if the chap who fired them dies. At least it's worked like that since 4th, if not before.

[dswanick]

I think in third an overheat caused all shots to miss, but all my old books(and my desktop PC) are in storage, so im working off of (faulty) memory.

[awfulawful]

For some reason this one seems to confuse a lot of people. I've even seen people play it as an overheat causes the weapon to be destroyed, so even if the firer lives, it cannot be fired again. Obviously not supported by the rules in any way.

[thade]

Once a guy tried to convince me that an overheat resulted in a small AP2 blast template centered on the firer. People get all sorts of confused about that rule.

 

dswanick has the right of it there; the rules don't say the other shots miss, so it's folly to assume that they do.

[Scout13]

Thanks everyone.  That`s what most of us thought and its good to know that others agree.

[*Furyou Miko]

The number of Marine players I've faced who have removed models that overheat boggles the mind. For some reason, they always assume that it's like being wounded by a plasma gun.

[Morollan]

The number of Marine players I've faced who have removed models that overheat boggles the mind. For some reason, they always assume that it's like being wounded by a plasma gun.

 

To be honest it probably should be counted as a hit from the weapon that is overheating but it isn't and, AFAIK, never has been.

[UltratoDA]

Couple of points I’d like to clear up.

A twin linked plasma rolls a 1 on its first shot, is it fine to reroll and then go by the new result (I’ve always played like that, but I
have that uncertain cloud in my mind and I don’t have a rulebook to hand).

Do marine bikers suffer gets hot like normal when the plasmas are mounted i.e. mounted plasma talons.

 

[Dam13n]

1 - Yes, the gets hot rule states that anything that grants you a re-roll to hit (Twin-linked, Presience, BS6+ etc) means that you will only get hot if the re-roll comes up a 1.

 

2 - Yes.  IIRC this hasn't always been the case.  I seem to remember that in 4th they didn't because the weapon was mounted on the bike rather than being carried by the rider, but whether that was the case back then or not, it certainly isn't now.

[Grey Mage]

There was a time you could hit when rapid firing a plasmagun, as you had a 1 in 6 chance per shot being fired on EACH shot sent out... but thats been a couple of editions now.

 

Roll an armor save, make hte other shot go through as normal if it hit, and always roll seperate dice for each plasmagunner so you dont have wounds spilling over this way and that.

[Dam13n]

GM - it's not specified that you have to roll seperately for each 'gets hot' weapon.  I usually just pool the dice and accept the consequences if I get multiple overheats.  For me rolling a handful of dice equals better rolls than rolling seperately, just how my luck plays out.

 

It might benefit me to get more varied dice colours though so I could cover my bases better (red for model A, blue for model B etc.) rather than what I do now (green for all plasma, black for bolters, red for flamers/meltas, plus white/cream if there's anything else in the unit.)

[Grey Mage]

My luck tends to do much the same at times- either lone dice, or large batches for best results....

 

Anyways, I use the different color method and roll them together, usually with a third color for my bolters.

[UltratoDA]

Thanks for clearing that up guys (I have since checked my rulebook).

 

Dam13n, yeah i believe in 4th ed gets hot didn't effect bikes. Too many old school rules in my mind, it's hard not to blend them all into one.

[Disruptor_fe404]

GM - it's not specified that you have to roll seperately for each 'gets hot' weapon.  I usually just pool the dice and accept the consequences if I get multiple overheats.

 

Perhaps not, but how will you know which model suffers the wound? The rule does actually say 'the firing model', so it's not like you get to allocate it.

[Fibonacci]

We just randomize it if there are more then one plasma gunner.  It keeps the game moving, especially with chaos chosen carrying 5 plasmaguns.

[Dam13n]

Disruptor - I resolve it the same way I resolve dangerous terrain tests.

 

If a tactical squad goes through dangerous terrain you have a sergeant, a specialist, a heavy weapon and 7 boltgunners. I would roll all the boltgunners together, if one dies - does it really matter which one, they're all the same.

 

If I shot a Grey Hunter unit with a Plasma Pistol and 2 Plasma Gunners, the 2 Plasma Gunners are both the same so I'd roll them together, if one dies, once again does it matter which one as they're the same. The pistol would be rolled separately because the model is armed differently.

[Disruptor_fe404]

But what if the model that (should have, in your case) suffered the wound is the closest model, and you rolled just the right distance for a charge after? As in, if you had removed the correct model, you wouldn't have made the charge, but since you didn't, you now can...

 

I'm thinking Black Knights here, obviously (since nothing else I know of has as much plasma and can still charge after).

 

Mind you, if you also are removing the model in such a way that the advantage goes to your opponent, this sort of stuff disappears anyway.

 

I just find it easier to avoid potential arguments this way.

 

Incidentally, Dangerous Terrain tests also mention them being done by model.

[Dam13n]

I usually go by the rule of "least pretty/cool model dies first" so it tends to be fairly even in terms of who might gain an advantage.

 

I also tend to place my plasma weapons at the back of the unit (just like Wolf Banners, MotW, WGPL etc. for SW or Champions for CSM).  So even if they could charge, it's hardly an issue as they'll never be the closest model.

 

I've never had an argument when playing it this way.  If someone wanted to be picky then I'd either say "then you can pick which one dies" and remove the chosen model or proceed to redo the rolls, rolling for each one seperately.  The game is meant to be fun after all, so I wouldn't kick up a fuss unless someone was cheating.  Much easier to shrug my shoulders, roll my eyes and get on with the game (not forgetting to add my opponent to my "book of grudges" for being a picky git).

[nurglez]

I always roll my plasma separately, as if one of my guys roll double 1's I wan't to know, as its funny and characterful (plague marine Bob tried to melt his face off twice, while plague marine Sam looks on and kills enemies). 2 plasma and a combi plasma is usually the most I have in a squad so it doesn't slow down the game really, though different coloured dice would help I guess :D

[Disruptor_fe404]

Okay, I'll admit it, I keep track of who the weakest link is too...

 

Ultimately though, if your opponent doesn't care (and neither do you) then you're playing the game right anyway!

 

My group is super strict on RAW though.

[monkeyman26]

1 - Yes, the gets hot rule states that anything that grants you a re-roll to hit (Twin-linked, Presience, BS6+ etc) means that you will only get hot if the re-roll comes up a 1.

 

Just want to clarify the exact rules for twin linked gets hots, especially as I run Ravenwing Black Knights. the rule book says "a wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1". taken as written you would only suffer a would if both rolls are a 1, but not if the first role is a 2 and the re-roll is a 1. Doesn't sound like much difference but it halves the risk of gets hot from 1/18 to 1/36. Much better than the 1/6 risk to plasma guys without the re-roll!

 

Has this point been FAQed and I've missed it?

[DarkGuard]

No, it's quite simple. If the re-roll is a 1, you take a Gets Hot wound. If your first roll is a 1 and your second roll is 1 you take the wound. If your first roll is a 2 and your second roll is a 1, you take the wound. The only roll that matters is the re-roll, just forget what the first one was for the purposes of Gets Hot.

 

What the rulebook is referring to there is the fact that when you roll a 1, you'll only suffer Gets Hot on another roll of a 1.