Plea for help/crisis of faith!

[Orogen]

Hey all - I suppose I could post this in the main forums, but I respect the opinion of a lot of BA folk so I'd rather keep it to a smaller community.

Let me say upfront, I do not mean this to be a GW bash thread.

So, the story - the thread on allying with Tau got my interst piqued.  I've had a soft spot for the fish for a long while.  Combine a new codex with a LONG plane flight upcoming and it was a perfect opportunity to pick up a xeno dex.  Well, get to the register, find out I have to shell out $53.  HOLY.  COW.  For a codex.  This on top of the Raven I could only get one of due to cost, my last 2 finecasts being of questionable quality, etc.  I refer back to my previous point, I am not starting a GW thread.  That is the way of things.... so how do we deal with this?

 

I decided on the way home I can't support this company any more.  Unfortunately, I do enjoy modeling, painting and even occassionally playing the game.  And this is where I get lost.  Other tabletop games don't offer the range of units, modeling opportunities (I also play Orks), etc.  I've got >10,000pts of BA but I somehow DON'T have units that I want to play, and I'm sure as heck not buying them now.  I pay attention to Ebay, I have my online shops with discounts, all that jazz... but I prefer to support my local shop and GW has priced me out of the game.

 

So... any advice?  Words of wisdom?  How do you guys cope with the costs of the hobby?

 

Cheers,

-Orogen

[nurglespuss]

Although this will almost certainly be locked (and understandably so - as it is not what this forum is really about), I do find myself in a similar situation.

 

As things in life generally get more expensive, and other things take precedence (e.g. children), our disposable income decreases (remember as a child dreaming about when you were grown up, had a job, and could buy anything you wanted? Yeah.... ). Unfortunately, GW produce, as a luxury, can pretty much be sold at whatever price the company deem fit. I moan about this occasionally, but, ultimately... Its 'our' choice to buy.

 

My current approach is this - 

 

I can't afford to buy a model today, but, I have a painted army, I have ebay etc. etc. I can have patience, and wait until I've saved enough pennies to purchase what i want, and then take my time painting it.

 

A good example of which is my recent Baal Predator.

 

I wanted to include one in my list, but could not afford to buy the new one, yet. So, I popped on Ebay, and purchased an older version for £10... this I stripped, repaired, converted and repainted (having fun in the process). In a few weeks, I should be able to justify purchasing the new model, and will have fin with that too.

 

Perhaps, its time we all took a bit more time, and stepped away form the hyper purchase route that seemed to follow in the wake of Apocolypse?

[Alyssis]

I actually dont think its that expensive.. Then again, i used to shoot, and just one pistol costed me almost $4000.

 

What i pay, compaired to all the hours of fun i get back, from painting, and playing, its really not that much..! And im from Norway, so your $53 codex is almost $70 here..

 

I havent played any other miniature table games, and im sure some of them are cheaper.. But i like 40k, and i like my Blood angels! So, im still gonna support GW, and i would be the first to pay even a $100 for a new BA codex if they came out with one!

 

As for how to cope with the cost? Buy something once in a while.. spread it out over time, and it shouldnt feel that expensive..!

[I am Legion]

Yeah....hahahahaha....this is the general topic for every 40k player. Lets face it, nobodies rich, we all have a life but its true save ur pennies like the rest of us. Dont ever ever impulse buy amd just paint everything u own and if u have spare bits go talk to other gamers and see if they'll give or trade u some bits. That's what i do and even though i got a whack of vehicles to paint i know i won't be buying anything short of codexes when they come out.

[Leksington]

The secret to my success:  Keep and maintain only one 40k army, and one WFB army.

 

Once you have built out the core of an army, maintaining that army is fairly cheap; you only need major updates for a new codex, or a new edition.  That is only about twice every 5 years.

 

When you pick up a new army, not only do you incur that ridiculous startup cost, you also multiply your upkeep costs.  What was once a reasonable upkeep has become out of controll upkeep.

[Morticon]

How do you have 10k points and not the units you want to play?    

 

As a South African I can honestly say that this hobby is probably more expensive for me than it is for any other person in another country with a GW/Rogue Trader store.  Why?  Well, firstly, our prices are comparable to the Aussies.  This may seem all well and good, but when you consider earning power of your average SA person you'll see that the cost to salary ratio is sickening.  The mean annual income of SA compared to the USA is between 8 and 20 times less - (depending on racial demographic).  So, me being in a favourable economic racial demographic still earn on average 8 times less than my counterpart in the USA, but have to pay twice as much for GW?  Its nuts. A codex here costs almost 1000 Rand - thats 500 rand less than the monthly income of the VAST majority of south africans, and at my last (much, much higher than average paying) job, it would be about 15% of my monthly income.  For a skilled job.

 

The reason i tell you about this is not to try out-do you, but to let you know that i know EXACTLY where you're coming from.

 

One trick is , as nurglespuss has said, that there is no real need to buy new.  You just dont need to.  The largest portion of my army is second hand. The rest (mainly newer stuff) is from tournament winnings.  

 

The next trick is get what you can when you can, and in the case of codicies- how you can (since they are available online!). 

 

If you have 10k of stuff, trade. Dont rush out and buy all new.  Get old stuff, trawl the net- theres sooo much out there. 

 

No need to feel despondent! 

 

With 10k of BA and access to all the units in the codex, you have all you need to field a kick ass army.

[Orogen]

Trust me, I feel you guys - I've got my kit-bashed units, Ebay castoffs etc.  And to answer Morticon I've been picking up little bits here and there for quite a while (thus no Raven until recently got picked one up).  A Reaver titan adds some points ;)  Smliarly, tourney prizes and store credit from other games (I was fairly successful with Magic:TG).  But I haven't done much in a long time so new units, allies, etc. are either proxied or gotten off ebay.

 

In any case, I appreciate the feedback - I've relegated myself to painting for the very far future.  Just curious to hear other gamers thoughts.  I guess there's no helping the moral dilemma of supporting a company I feel could care less about "me".  Either you play the game or you don't (which is what I'm struggling with really).

 

I really hope this doesn't get closed - just looking for constructive discussion which I think this board is great for!

 

Cheers!

[knife&fork]

I know ammo gets expensive quickly but a $4000 pistol?

Oh well, enough gun chat.

There's nothing wrong with second hand or just cutting back a bit. Who knows what GW will do to adjust in a couple of years as 3d printing becomes common place?

[Brother Maikel]

Aside from the default "online retailers," "ebay," and "kitbash" suggestions, here are a few more:

 

1) Don't buy GW paints.  Model Master, Tamiya, Army Painter, Vallejo all make wonderful products that can produce high quality results, and can occasionally be found at a discount.  Same thing for other hobby supplies (green stuff, knives, brushes, etc)

 

2) Don't fear the Simple Green :)  Seriously though, stripping and repainting a model can take it from being an underperforming waste of shelf space and turn it into a star performer... Tac marines can become sternguard, Devastators can lend their heavy weapons to Tactical Squads, Assault Marines can fall to the black rage, etc.

 

3) My local store runs a league every month or two, with a $10 buy-in and guarantees you get at least $10 in store credit back, with the top half getting extra.  See if anyone in your area offers something similar.  That way your $10 isn't just getting you new models, but also getting you 3-6 weeks of guaranteed opponents.

 

4) You mentioned you were pretty good at Magic.  I recently went through my old cards and found that I had about $500 worth of Rares that I didn't want, need, or care about... a few days later about 25 of those turned into a Cadian Battleforce and a new Drop Pod.  A lot of stores offer cash or store credit for trades.

 

5) Talk your friends into picking up the armies you're interested in, so you can borrow their codices ;)

[GeoKrush]

My big issue is that I love to model and paint.  I really love the new sculpts that have been coming out lately.  BUT, I feel like GW is pricing their product out of where newcomers will choose to give it a shot.  Let's face it, the key demographic should be young adults, high school to college age.  Unfortunately, the game is priced for people with loads of disposable income.  Over time, the number of committed players gradually dwindle when they decide enough is enough, it is just not worth the sticker price anymore.  I might be hitting that point sooner than most, as I have a 45 minute drive to the closest LGS, and no real clubs in my area to speak of outside of that.  I don't get to play much, so it is tough to stomach spending several hundred dollars whenever a new 'dex comes out for my army.  The new models are spectacular, but it is tough to justify.

 

And I don't even want to talk about my Draigo finecast.....   

[ShadowSong7007]

In all fairness the new codexs (codices?) are pretty nice. Can't say I've felt ripped off when buying them.  Im a huge fan of the fluff and I always try to buy the new codex's when they come out. As far as the model cost, I hit up ebay now and then. Yes the models are expensive, not going to argue that point. At the same time though I know I'll get to use my fancy $60 model because I know a lot of people who play 40k. I could buy models for a cheaper game but am I getting my money worth when there's no one to play with? Congrats me I have a fancy model that only cost me $10 yet no one plays "Ninja Robot Fire Wars" or whatever.

 

I've tried Privateer Press games and they just dont do it for me. I think its mainly the people who play it around my area. They seem to want to talk more about how its totally not GW and how its totally going to demolish GW eventually. I think they got beat up by a Space Marine or something.

[Emperors Immortals]

I could buy models for a cheaper game but am I getting my money worth when there's no one to play with? Congrats me I have a fancy model that only cost me $10 yet no one plays "Ninja Robot Fire Wars" or whatever.

 

I've tried Privateer Press games and they just dont do it for me. I think its mainly the people who play it around my area. They seem to want to talk more about how its totally not GW and how its totally going to demolish GW eventually. I think they got beat up by a Space Marine or something.

Right, I just spilled coffee all over my lap laughing at this post - I would TOTALLY play " Ninja Robot Fire Wars" and beaten up by a space marine or something totally sums up the local population for me LOL.

 

 

Seriously though - codex and mni prices are very expensive, but ive been happy with the quality of the product so far (ive bought wines which cost more and gave me less pleasure). Having gone from a very well paid professional career to becoming a stay at home dad and looking after my wife leaves NO spare income, so ive actually being saving change in a jar to purchase products like Valejo paints and have unfortunatly had to "test" GW printed materials before purchase (with the help of the internet, I do want to point out ive then bought a lot of material I would have never considered otherwise).

 

Learning to cast my own custom bits has helped me get better minis and increase my enjoyment of the hobby - green stuff is quite easy to use after a steep learning curve.

 

Think about what aspect of this large hobby is the most appealing to you, lately ive had no time for painting/modeling and so ive taken to learning everythign i can about the background using online resources.

 

And lastly there is VASSAL - if you can read this post you can probably VASSAL - no fees no money needed and you can find dedicated gaming clubs online. Theres also a few posters on the BnC and right here in BA that would give you a go if you asked.

 

Good luck mate :)

[j-smuv]

The secret to my success:  Keep and maintain only one 40k army, and one WFB army.

 

^this

 

or in my case 2 40k armies. . .  

 

 

Here's what I've found helps alleviate the pain of high costs:

• I have traded some great deals on forums.   way better than ebay in a lot of cases.
• a lot of game stores have bits swapping events.   
• buy bulk on craigslist.  A lot of people will just want to get rid of the whole hobby.  Sell out all their stock.  Buy it. . . break it down. . . and sell what you don't want on ebay.  I've gotten some great stuff and come out ahead more times than not.  Just had to do a little legwork.   

 

Hope this helps. . .

[Crimson Devil]

Contrary to popular belief you can play 40k without ever buying another minature or rulebook for that matter. GW is also not the entirety of the hobby like they want you to believe. If your not finding other games/models that interest you then I believe you haven't looked really hard, now is a great time for alternative games to GW. The fact you don't want to use what you got tells me your bored and ready to jump ship into a different hobby. Buying new stuff is a band aid for a loss of passion not a cure. Take some time off.

[Xenith]

...You own a reaver titan yet can't splash out on raven?

 

Codexes...are expensive now. Too expensive for myself to justify running more than 2 armies per edition - Bought CSM, Will buy Eldar. Consider marines, but may sell CSM.

 

I have a separate 'hobby' bank account that has a direct debit of £5 a week put into it. This is my hobby fund, covers warhammer, infinity, video games, board games etc

 

I dont impulse buy (as much) I save.

 

That said, if I get my thesis handed in on time in June, I've promised myself £100 on Eldar..

 

Better get back to it then...

[Midnightmare]

Impulse buying is my bane, but to be fair I have curbed it a lot as prices continue to rise, and don't mind grabbing a second hand bargain (I obtained my second Raven for silly money from a Ravenguard player at my club - he is none too happy now his codex has access to it....mwhahahaa).

Now, I am going to try and concesntrate on painting what I have got rather than buying new stuff

[Tanhausen]

 

 

So... any advice?  Words of wisdom?  How do you guys cope with the costs of the hobby?

 

 

You already have some solid advice :)

 

And even if I'm only a Death Angel buddy, I hope you'll find the following interesting:

 

- Inventory what you have: 10k of any army sounds like a lot...and it is. But when you actually break it down, its easier to identify the areas you want to improve. What's the point in having 2k of terminators if you never field more than 5?

 

- Depending on your area of interest (gaming, modelling, painting, W/E), put it in writting. If you're simply into modelling/painting, I don't think you have 10k of converted/painted stuff...so you got work/hobby for a long time.

 

If you're more of a gamer, concentrate on what squads you want to go for.

 

If I had to plan for a BA army (that allows for several flexible builds) I'd probably try:

 

- couple of Sang priests: convertable from a regular marine and some tinkering

- 30-40 assault marines: since most people don't carry them with JP, you need regular marines and a lot of CS/BP...which I'm sure you can either simply ask your friends for (you'd be surprised how much stuff ends up in our bits boxes), fish around bitz sites or trade at tournaments/LGS.

- 2-3 razors: either scratch build them (the rhino-chasis is reasonably easy to build) or look for dirt cheap rhinos in ebay (refurbishin needed)

- 2-3 predators: again, get a rhino chassis (built or cheap) and use plasticard/PVC tubes to make the lascannons and so

- a couple dreads: easy to come by from the AoBR box and to convert into furioso and whatnot

- a couple pods: again, you have several scratch templates around the net.

 

And all this is assuming you have 0 models...and you probably have at least 200 haha

 

TL;DR: focus on your objective, write it down, inventory your goodies and set a reasonable path to achieve it :)

[IK Viper]

The biggest money saver I can think of aside from the obvious 2nd and 3rd party markets is to not buy HQ models.

 

$15+ for one guy is bananas. Kit bash your HQ models, they are alot cheaper and thye are more original in my humble opinion.

 

For BA HQ's the Death Company Box is great becasue it has all sorts of BA bling to spice things up. Out of one DC Box I have made 2 PA Librarians (One wit JP) as well as 3 sang. priests (2 with JP)

 

Also, BA Sternguard Squad can be easily made from the DC Box though if you are worried about the X's you may have to swap out some backpecks etc.

 

I also like the DC Boz because you get bolters and CS/BP as well as a backpack and a JP, you can literally build any unit you want and have alot of bits left over.

 

The moral of the story is to look at sprues before you buy and plan out what you need/ want to build.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I think Warhammer 40,000 is actually pretty reasonably priced. Their stuff may have been underpriced at one time, which is perhaps why people always seem to be upset, but when you compare how prices on everything else have risen over the last 10 years (the amount of time I've been with the hobby), I have no complaints. I also compare the cost of Warhammer miniatures to the LEGO my children crave. 40K minis are downright cheap compared to LEGO! And $50 for a codex is really not that bad --it's easy to drop that much and more on a similar quality book that you'll read once and throw away.

 

So for me it's a matter of keeping things in perspective. When I look at my mortgage payments and grocery bills, the $50 per month I alot myself for 40K per month is insignificant, but at $50 per month I've built a large Imperial Guard force and 1500 pts worth of Blood Angels over the course of a few years. So aside from keeping things in perspective, I suggest that "slow but steady wins the race". Buy a little bit each month and over the course of time you'll amass a large collection.

[Captain Death Crunch]

...

 

I have a separate 'hobby' bank account that has a direct debit of £5 a week put into it. This is my hobby fund, covers warhammer, infinity, video games, board games etc

 

This is a great idea. Have a small amount of money withdrawn from your pay each time and you'll have enough money to get something really nice a couple of times a year.

[Ranwulf]

I actually saved a lot of money just by magnetizing my Assault Squads and not painting the Devastator Heads blue (so I can use them in Tacticals). Magnes really work wonders, I have some sergeants that can exchange equipment easily.

 

Ran

[Jakbal]

I am happy to pay $50 for a codex as long as they keep rewriting them much more often than they do.  Maybe GW has realized they can make money on book sales as well as model sales, and therefore will have more motivation to continually redefine and improve the armies with further codex releases.  I would be okay with that.

 

Overall, I feel like WH40k is expensive ... but when I look how many hours of fun I get out of a $33 box of models ... it is hard to say it isn't worth it.  It still upsets me every time I purchase anything, though.

[TheRedeemed]

I first started on my 40k journey within the last couple of years, and as a full-time student, husband, father and part-time employee my money and my time are at a premium.

 

Initially I bought a tonne of plastic, and paints, and paintbrushes, and the tools I needed, and the BRB, and the Codex. The startup costs are quite steep, but this is a hobby I intend to be a part of for most of my life and the quality of GW's product (rich background, high quality models, utility of plastic kits, and easy availability of product and players) will keep me enjoyably enthralled for the foreseeable future!

 

The advice I would give is the advice that has been already given, and the advice that I have recently taken.

 

- Slow down and enjoy each moment of the hobby. Impulse buying is detrimental to our wallets (obviously!) and to the enjoyment of the ins and outs of modelling, painting and gaming.

 

- Plan your army and SAVE for your PLANNED purchases. I am in the same boat as everyone else when it comes to New Shinies - "Must. Buy. Latest. Models!" But I have actually found it much more satisfying to save for what I want (which my generation is generally pretty poor at, [i'm 27]). Regular small deposits aren't crippling financially, but enable you to 'take the edge off' your purchasing often enough.

 

- eBay. It's pretty easy to find what you want, and the added challenge of maybe having to undo someone else's work so that you can make the model your own is very satisfying. Personally this has helped me develop as a modeller and painter, vastly expanding the horizons of the hobby for me.

 

- Make the most out of every bit in the box, either by kitbashing, converting or magnetising. Being an Aussie, if I buy 1 box of DC for almost $50AUD, then I am sure as heck going to use every little bit! This is also really fun to see how I can make my army unique and exciting with dramatic poses, and magnetising multiple weapon options.

 

Financial concerns are legitimate, but the pleasure that I am paying for is worth it to me. It helps when there are other people who are willing to give advice (like in this thread) and encourage others along. I know I have really appreciated reading / lurking on the BnC and picking up lots of tips and advice from people here.

 

Cheers!

 

TheRedeemed.

[nimrod451]

Hobbies are expensive -all of them..

 

.. I always equate it with people buying video games. If people play games - like i used to more. There's the system cost, then the games themselves. Which if you play consistently you pretty much can eat through 1 or 2 a month? that's another 100 dollars. With this, you can paint..which is actually a skill ( at least that's how i justify it heh) ..and for me its relaxing..

 

I'm pretty bad though, I impulse by a lot - or ask for gifts and get them with the "I'll paint them someday" mentality.

 

For me there's a few things though - I try to keep a hobby slush fund. If I get to much of something i try to sell some stuff, or if its a project interest has waned in to much.. I debate selling.  I've sold of pieces and haven't regretted it. A lot of people say don't sell your armies, but sometimes the project of painting is enough. If you think that would be awesome to paint..paint it.. and if you don't use it..take some pictures and sell it..  someone will probably buy it. you might not get what you invested in back, but you'll get a portion and you gained experience and hopefully had fun, and whatever you do make you can put in "the fund" to do something else with.. There is an ebay market for bits if nothing else...

 

Oh and my biggest advice I read in an article a while ago - while your getting all your lil stuff in the mail, or going to your local shop and buying stuff.. get the Wife or Girlfriend something (mine has lil unicorns) its positive re-enforcement!

 

I think I'm rambling more than offering advice -but one more thing! If you feel like buying something new, and you know you shouldn't go look for more marines.. if your like me..you'll find out you can make like 2 or 3 more tac squads just off your bits :)