Clarifications/minor Changes request

[[TA]Typher]

How about Combat Squads for Deathwing Terminators  And Deathwing Knights.

 

What about them? Neither unit has it.

 

This doesn't seem like a something that is unclear.

 

 

Are you wanting to ask if we can have it?

[Master Avoghai]

How about Combat Squads for Deathwing Terminators  And Deathwing Knights.

 

Like [TA] Typher says it's not something unclear. So I  guess it's asking to add it.

 

Actually we already discuss of this point in numerous topic about termis. The problem with combat squad termis is that it will allow people to take 10 termis with 2CML and 5TH/SS. Split them in one squad of 5 Termis with assault weapons into a crusader and one squad of footslogging termis with 2CML and split fire.

 

Not a very balanced combo.

[shabbadoo]

Combat squads for both are balanced just fine, and I shouldn't have to explain why. 

 

And yes, I am obviously asking for it, or rather asking why it was left out (or if it was an oversight) when every single marine squad capable of a 10-man size has combat squads (unless they are some sort of pack like Space Wolves field).  DA are not Space Wolves, so it is worth asking about.

[Master Avoghai]

Combat squads for both are balanced just fine, and I shouldn't have to explain why.

I actually don't see why it is balanced.

Effective, yes I see why, I've explained it in my previous post.

 

But balanced... I'm still looking for a drawback that would balance it.

[Bryan Blaire]

Couldn't that be argued in a different thread than the clearing house for FAQ/suggestions thread though? As Gold Five said, "Stay on target. Stay on target."

[Master Avoghai]

That's what I think too...

 

However I have another question I've forgotten :

 

Let's say my Librarian with Displacer Field is challenged. His opponent wound him with his power weapon and therefore obliges him to use his 3+ inv save. He rolls and succeeds. Hence I have to roll the scatter die and he gets out of the challenge. What should I do? Make the pile in move in order to return into the challenge? Or just engage the closest model and therefore break the challenge?

[elphilo]

I believe you would have to move into base to base of your duel partner. But you'll still get to strike at each other because of this little sentence at the end of the Fighting a Challenge section:

For the duration of the challenge, these two models are considered to be in base contact only with each other.

So even though they aren't in base to base at the moment, they are considered to be.

[Master Avoghai]

Yup but it applies when you can't move the models.

Here they were engaged together and the character leave the b2b contact..

[elphilo]

I understand, but I think since it is its own sentence it applies all the time. At least thats how I interpret it and I'm not an English major so I might be wrong

[ValourousHeart]

That's what I think too...

 

However I have another question I've forgotten :

 

Let's say my Librarian with Displacer Field is challenged. His opponent wound him with his power weapon and therefore obliges him to use his 3+ inv save. He rolls and succeeds. Hence I have to roll the scatter die and he gets out of the challenge. What should I do? Make the pile in move in order to return into the challenge? Or just engage the closest model and therefore break the challenge?

Master Avoghai,

 

Page 63 of the codex lists the rules for the Displacer Field.

 

Second paragraph, second sentence - "At the end of a phase..."

Third paragraph, first sentence - "... the end of Initiative 1 step, after all blows have been struck..."

 

It is hard to tell my your post if you are asking if you get to attack a model not in the challenge or if at the end of CC your are removed from the challenge.

 

You will not be displaced until after you have fought this round of CC, so you would strike the challenger.

At the end of the CC round you are forced to pile in if you were in CC before you were displaced, unless of course your unit you were engaged with was wiped out.

[Master Avoghai]

No I'm just asking if the challenge continues the following turns.

 

Long story short :

 

Both opponents strikes, but none dies and the librarian roll a successful 3++save.

 

He scatters within 3".

 

Now like the rules say he's forced to pile in BUT :

 

Should he pile in to return to challenge? (or he scattered too far is he considered to be still in challenge though not in base contact like suggested elphilo?)

Should he pile in to the unit in general and the challenge is considered finished ? (and therefore he's free to make a new challenge)

[ValourousHeart]

Oh I see. Well sense it doesn't remove you from combat it wouldn't remove you from the challenge.

[Master Avoghai]

But that deserves a question indeed...

 

Off topic : I really wonder the point of such rule actually. You don't suffer from any dangerous scattering. You don't stay in the open and subject to any enemy shooting phase or new charge with attack bonus. And possibly you're not removed from challenge.

 

So I really fail to see any point of this additional rule... :unsure:

[Chaplain Killmer]

Fluff. Its a device from the original warhammer 40k books where they used a lot of colourful rules.

[shabbadoo]

 

Combat squads for both are balanced just fine, and I shouldn't have to explain why.

I actually don't see why it is balanced.

Effective, yes I see why, I've explained it in my previous post.

 

But balanced... I'm still looking for a drawback that would balance it.

Ask yourself how awesome Vengeful Strike is for the Assault Terminator combat squad.   Both squads must be held in Reserve, or not at all.  If they are both held in Reserve, the Assault Squad can't use the rule, while the other can.  If the squads are not held in Reserve, both cannot use the rule, as it doesn't apply.  In your squad load-out, it is a half useless or completely useless rule.  That you paid for.  Combat Squads make the rule, that you pay for, slightly more useable, when you actually can use it.  If you use the more flexible deployment that Combat Squads would offer when placing models on the table, not is Reserve, you've already given up the rule, that you paid for, anyways.  Losing the twin-linked guns of arse-whooping is somehow not a downside?  [EDIT] Almost forgot: only half the squads in your army (rounded up) will even have access to this rules anyways, if they are shooty units.

 

Like I said, I shouldn't have had to explain this.

[Master Avoghai]

Before determining what I actually pay for I want to see how the vanilla marine entry is built and the actual cost/special rules + special characters...

 

I though recognize something concerning the TH/SS combo.

1- specifically for DA, paying 5 pts for it when you already lose the vengeful strike bonus is not really logical...

2- more generally : the v5 meta game justified a price hike for the TH/SS. V6 balanced it in a way due to the frequency of weapons with high rate of fire. (Or items like banner of devastation). Now you don't lose your termis under AP2 weapons but under bolters. Moreover most power weapons are now AP3, so no need to be protected either.

 

But again, I'll wait for vanilla termis entry to make an opinion about it...

[notmattlythgoe]

 

 

Combat squads for both are balanced just fine, and I shouldn't have to explain why.

I actually don't see why it is balanced.

Effective, yes I see why, I've explained it in my previous post.

 

But balanced... I'm still looking for a drawback that would balance it.

Ask yourself how awesome Vengeful Strike is for the Assault Terminator combat squad.   Both squads must be held in Reserve, or not at all.  If they are both held in Reserve, the Assault Squad can't use the rule, while the other can.  If the squads are not held in Reserve, both cannot use the rule, as it doesn't apply.  In your squad load-out, it is a half useless or completely useless rule.  That you paid for.  Combat Squads make the rule, that you pay for, slightly more useable, when you actually can use it.  If you use the more flexible deployment that Combat Squads would offer when placing models on the table, not is Reserve, you've already given up the rule, that you paid for, anyways.  Losing the twin-linked guns of arse-whooping is somehow not a downside?  [EDIT] Almost forgot: only half the squads in your army (rounded up) will even have access to this rules anyways, if they are shooty units.

 

Like I said, I shouldn't have had to explain this.

No need for the hostility.

[plasmaspam]

 

 

Combat squads for both are balanced just fine, and I shouldn't have to explain why.

I actually don't see why it is balanced.

Effective, yes I see why, I've explained it in my previous post.

 

But balanced... I'm still looking for a drawback that would balance it.

Ask yourself how awesome Vengeful Strike is for the Assault Terminator combat squad.   Both squads must be held in Reserve, or not at all.  If they are both held in Reserve, the Assault Squad can't use the rule, while the other can.  If the squads are not held in Reserve, both cannot use the rule, as it doesn't apply.  In your squad load-out, it is a half useless or completely useless rule.  That you paid for.  Combat Squads make the rule, that you pay for, slightly more useable, when you actually can use it.  If you use the more flexible deployment that Combat Squads would offer when placing models on the table, not is Reserve, you've already given up the rule, that you paid for, anyways.  Losing the twin-linked guns of arse-whooping is somehow not a downside?  [EDIT] Almost forgot: only half the squads in your army (rounded up) will even have access to this rules anyways, if they are shooty units.

 

Like I said, I shouldn't have had to explain this.

why shouldn't you have to explain it?

[shabbadoo]

Because it is obvious.

 

And no hostility meant.  Another thread discussing this was mentioned, so I figured (incorrectly) that it wouldn't be necessary to waste everyone's time by rattling off the reasons, as it has apparently already been done.

[Brother Immolator]

Ask yourself how awesome Vengeful Strike is for the Assault Terminator combat squad

 

There is no 'assault terminator squad' (much more combat squad) in the DA codex. Every loadout can carry a CML (I am sticking to CMLs in this arguement due to the 'assault' designation and the fact that the CML comes in addition to other gear not replacing). The fact that you can quarentees a use for vengeful strike in conjuction with split fire. Its simple really, if you want to pass on the option its not the fault of the rules or a mistaken cost/model ratio. The ability is there, its up to you to use it, if you want that is. So yeah it is awesome IMHO because it increases my chances to rip appart a transport and the next turn mutilate whats inside for example.

 

Given the fact that our heavy weapons can fire at different targets and under certain conditions twinlinked at that, I believe that having combat squads (especially scorring terminators) would be too much and would increase the cost even further.

[Dark_Master]

Do we actually have a list of requests yet?

 

Have I missed it in the thread?

 

DM

[elphilo]

Do we actually have a list of requests yet?

 

Have I missed it in the thread?

 

DM

Check the first post, its been updated throughout this thread :)

[Chivs]

 

Is there a step by step purchase of equipment in the Dark Angels codex, or it all happens simultaneusly?

Example: Can I have an apothecary with an upgraded weapon he normally doesn't have access to, because I bought it at his veteran incarnation (which has access) first and then switched to an apothecary?

 

 

For the questions about the order of upgrades, you could refer to the Ork FAQ which asked a question about whether Nobz could have a Power Klaw in a Shoota boyz mob.

 

Q. If a Boyz mob exchange sluggas and choppas with shootas, can a Nob take a power klaw or a big choppa? (p100)

A. You may upgrade the Nob to have a big choppa or power

klaw before you choose to upgrade the mob to have shootas, in

which case the Nob is not affected by the mob’s weapon swap

(as he no longer has a choppa to swap), does not receive a

shoota and keeps his slugga and power klaw/big choppa

instead.

 

In this case you were allowed to do the character upgrade and upgrade your weapon before the squad's weapon swap to give the more advantageous option (i.e. to allow you to swap before you gave away the slugga/choppa). In the questions you're asking, you want to do a weapon upgrade before the character swap (i.e. to allow you to swap before you give away the veteran weapons when becoming an apothecary). I don't know whether citing the Ork example above would help or hinder the decision, as it's half in favour and half out of favour.

 

 

 

[Master Avoghai]

The ork FAQ also allow the Power field combo where as the DA FAQ forbid it...

 

I prefere not base the reasonning on it... ;-)

[Brother Immolator]

The ork FAQ also allow the Power field combo where as the DA FAQ forbid it...

 

I prefere not base the reasonning on it... ;-)

Yeah although I have used the Ork faq in arquements for the possibility of the phased upgrades, I am of the mind that each codex is a different story and we better be safe than sorry.