Random musing about armour mark variants

[skeletoro]

So, I've been looking at the wonder that is forge world resin, and am planning to mix some <mk7 models into my grey hunter packs.

My question is: what mix of armour marks would be your ideal?

I really like mk 4, and given that Forge World seems to share that sentiment, we're really spoiled for choice when it comes to mk iv kits. Mk 6... I also really like, but feel that it's much nicer when done as a complete model (i.e. with an oldskool backpack, correct chest, perhaps even an umbra bolter, etc).

As much as I like them all, I feel that 2, 3 and 5 don't really fit so well, fluff-wise. Apparently loyalist marines destroyed or salvaged for parts all their mk 5 heresy armour following the heresy (is this right?), so we wouldn't expect to see it much or at all on loyalist marines in the 41st millennium (or am I wrong? I'd like to be wrong - mark v has a certain charm to it).

Mk 2 isn't quite up to par, technologically, so it's hard to imagine it being used much (it was even on its way out during the heresy, right?) Mark 3 does still get used in 40k, but apparently only for boarding actions. To top it off, I think that mark 2 and 3 are a bit too visually distinct to happily mix with other marks within a unit.

So given all this, here's my thoughts:

• mk iii: none, except perhaps a single unit of grey hunters or wolf guard kitted out for boarding actions, and then they'd ALL be decked out in mk iii (perhaps alongside some cataphractii).
• mk iv: A fair bit. Maybe around 1/4 - perhaps this is more than is realistic, but it's so damn cool, I can't resist. Also, the images in IA11 suggest that Bran Redmaw's company (the company I'm building) does possess a fair few mk iv suits.
• mk vi: Maybe 1/4 too, but if any, a little less than mk iv. I'd make sure to use legit mk vi bits rather than blurring the lines between mk vi and vii. For example I'd use both the mark vi legs from the space wolves pack (one of which has one kneepad, but hey, close enough) as well as the mk vi head (perhaps the "rat-head" on a mark vi wolf guard), and I actually have a couple of mark vi torsos from the old space wolves sprue that I'd use, but I'd refrain from using the "wrong" torsos (i.e. mark v ones) or using modern backpacks from the space wolves pack.
• mk vii: Should definitely be the most common, but not necessarily by a lot.
• mk viii: I do want to give some of these to my wolf guard and long fangs only. At this stage, I'd be converting it by hand, but I don't think it's TOO laborious (just use the tac squad chestplate, shave off/cover any wires/cables, and perhaps put a round armour plate on the ankles - and if you want to model it unhelmeted, that saves you from needing to worry about the helmet!)

So, what mix would you go with?

The other thing I'm wondering is which space wolves units would get more of which armour mark. Here's my intuitions:

• Melee oriented grey hunters (or bloodclaws): heavier on mk vi (apparently corvus armour has the best flexibility and is favoured by assault marines typically?)
• Outflanking/BEL grey hunters (e.g. SotH or Bran's unit): a fair bit of mk iv (because the recon squad is perfect for them) but also a fair bit of corvus (apparently it has advanced stealth?)
• Long fangs: Honestly, I don't know. Perhaps similarly to wolf guard, but less corvus (they need less flexibility).
• Wolf guard: mk iv and mk viii because they're technologically advanced and represent an honour bestowed upon proven warriors, and also a fair bit of corvus (for melee).

One last question (for now ): Has anybody bought the mk vi corvus set from Forgeworld? Is it up to the same standards as their more recent stuff? So far I just have 1 set of legion mk iv (plus some cataphractii terminators that won't be assembled for a LOONG time) and I must say the detail is spectacular. Is the older mk vi kit as good, or nearly as good? But then on the other hand, I'm guessing we'll see at least 1 corvus release when HH book 3 is released along with the raven guard.

And hmm, IA12 features the minotaurs, who supposedly use a lot of Errant Armour. I'm very much hoping we'll see a mark viii errant release in the next couple of months. Surely it would sell like crazy. I know I'd definitely get me some

OK, I totally lied, I have another question (this is why my post is entitled "random musings" ). Does anybody have any advice regarding acquiring older mark bits without spending too much? I'm willing to pay for forge world resin (personally, I think the quality difference is staggering, and FW isn't all THAT much more expensive than GW plastics here in New Zealand - a space wolves pack is about 43 pounds retail here - that's right, almost double the price in the UK!), but don't want to spend more than I need to. So far the only "smart" strategy I've come up with is purchasing some raven guard upgrade kits rather than all mark vi corvus kits. We don't need LOTS of mark vi legs; they're common. It's the chests, backpacks, and studded shoulder pads that are harder to acquire, and the raven guard kit has those (minor conversion work required). Plus it's 6 pounds cheaper and has those ferrox umbra bolters. For 34 quid, you get 10 ferrox umbra bolters and 5 mark vi guys, OR 10 ferrox umbra bolters and 10 raven guard guys.

[skeletoro]

Oh crap, another question I've been mulling over. Space wolves in corvus armour with a studded left shoulder pad: Company or pack markings on their right pad? (And where does the remaining marking go?)

[Squark]

Right, my thoughts on this.

 

Mk II would presumably be reserved for Wolf Guard. There's the tie to the great crusade which is a huge deal for loyalist marines of all stripes, and it also strikes an ideal balance between Mobility, Durability, and strength. Mk II wasn't abandoned because Mk IV was superior per se, it was abandoned because those leg joints are a pain in the butt to fix. Also, one downside of the armor is that while it performs well, stealth is not it's forte- It doesn't make as much noise as Mk III, but using it on an outflanking or infiltrating squad is... questionable, to say the least.

 

Mk III I'd say makes the most sense on boarding parties and Long Fangs- The extra strength gives them an edge when it comes to carrying their weapons. It'd be particularly useful to a group of Long Fangs in a drop pod- The Logan bomb I keep meaning to build someday is going to be in Mk III. Availability-wise, it's more common tha Mk II because of the durability ensuring more of them survived, but again, this is not the sort of stuff you give the newbies. Wearing anything older than Mk VI is a high honor for a Space Marine.

 

Mk IV was more common among the traitor legions than the loyalists, I believe, as they took priority in upgrading. Like all the older armors, it's still very much a rarity.

 

Mk V is kind of... hodge podge to begin with. It still commands respect among other Astartes, but Rites of Battle mentions that the Eclisiarchy is suspicious of anyone wearing something this closely tied to the heresy. Company marking should be on the left shoulderpad. I'd say the pack marking goes on the kneepad, similar to how Terminators do it.

 

Mk VI is still in production in some places in limited numbers, I believe (Could be wrong). I'd expect Bran Redmaw and Erik Morkai to have above average representation of this type of armor in their great companies, since as the lightest power armor variant, it's well suited to the ambush tactics both of them prefer.

 

Mk VII is... Mk VII.

 

Mk VIII is pretty rare, and it's also common for the pieces of the suit to be dispersed among several Astartes, making full suits a very rare sight.

 

Oh, and I'm pretty sure the reason forgeworld has pushed out more Mk IV kits is because they're trying to give Horus Heresy players what they need, and Mk IV armor would be the predominant type used among the Legions that are currently supported.

[skeletoro]

 

Oh, and I'm pretty sure the reason forgeworld has pushed out more Mk IV kits is because they're trying to give Horus Heresy players what they need, and Mk IV armor would be the predominant type used among the Legions that are currently supported.

Yeah, you're probably right there. I'm definitely expecting to see more mk v, vi and perhaps even vii as time goes on.

 

[skeletoro]

Does iron armour actually provide greater strength (as in, lifting power?)

[Russ Brother 92]

Iron Armour was designed as a defence against the Void - so are used within the the Destroyer squads and Breacher squads - not stronger perse but it's sealed against toxins, the void and other airbourne elements...

[skeletoro]

Don't destroyer squads use mk iv armour? At least the forge world ones do. Are you sure you've got that right? I don't really see how extra frontal armour plates helps protect against the void...

[Squark]

Mk IV wasn't just used for void combat- Buffing frontal armor at the expense of mobility would actually be counter intuitive in a suit designed for Void warfare; Mk IV was also for Boarding Actions (Cramped quarters, likely to involve close combat fighting), and combat on High-Gravity Worlds (Originally those of the "species who must not be named," if you're curious).

 

 

On Forgeworld's packs: they do offer a 18- pound discount on the combined-heavy weapons+ Heavy Support Marines packs, but if you're not building a Horus heresy style squad, you're likely to end up with bits you don't need unless the forces is really expansive (Each pack contains 10 Heavy bolters/Auto cannons and 5 of two other types, with 10 normal marines who carry the autocannons/heavy bolters (Which are built such that you could probably stick them on a vanilla tactical marines arms) and 10 heavy Support marines who carry the over the shoulder weaponry like the missile launchers, Lascannons, Plasmacannons, and multimeltas). Also, they offer those packs in all 3 armor variants that they're currently supporting.

[skeletoro]

Yeah, I wish they'd generalize the special deal. So that it's something like 20 marines and 20 heavy weapons (any combination of packs, but obviously only the 23 pound packs, not the assault ones etc) for 122 pounds, or something equivalent for the tactical squad package deal.

 

I'd be very tempted to go for such a deal. But having to take 6x the same legion mk X set is kinda a dealbreaker for me :(

[Emperor's Scourge]

As others have said, you'll generally see older armor on more established or highly ranked marines.  They're thought of as chapter relics that are entrusted with only the best a Chapter/Legion has to offer.  This is even more prominent in the SWs.  Although you raise a good question.  Would, say, a Wolf Guard rather wear Mk 8 because it's the latest tech or a suit of, say, Mk 2 or 4 because of it's lineage/wyrd?  Hmm.  I can't confidently give my opinion on that.

 

Mk III armor makes for especially cool looking Long Fangs imo.  I have ten equipped with Autocannons.

 

Not directed at the OP:  MK III armor is not meant for assault squads.  If you actually want to pay points for it's added benefits over Mk 2 then it's "hardened armor" and "hardened armor" reduces rolls for distance by 1" in Betrayal.  So -1 to sweeping advance or running for instance.  This is explained by it's bulkiness and it's explicitly stated in a number of sources that it's uncomfortable for even Astartes to wear for long periods of time.  Not something an assault squad would want.  If you think it looks cool and you want it in your assault squad that's totally fine.  Rule of Cool wins out.  Just don't mislead other people please.
 

[skeletoro]

Yeah, I think it's for close-quarters, but not necessarily close combat. If that makes sense. I.e. your Caestus has just breached the hull of an enemy warship, and a unit of wolf guard (or grey hunters perhaps) in mark iii battle-plate are the first out. Because they're probably in a bottleneck, they're probably going to be taking a lot of fire in a very short time - concentrated fire, possibly at very close range. Thus, heavy frontal armour (mark iii PA or even TDA) takes precedence over mobility. Establish a foot-hold for the rest of the force to establish themselves, as it were.

 

Oh man, now I know exactly what I'd use mark iii battle plate for. A unit to go with a Caestus Assault Ramp. You know, if I was made of money. Maybe one day :)