Astral Pathfinder Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Good morning ! I was planning to add some Dark Angels as """ally""" to my Dornian army so I was wondering what were the relations between Johnson and Dorn. And further, what do we know of the relations between the primarchs. In Legion, Alpharius says the other primarchs despise him, so he ignores them. In Prospero Burns, Russ is hiding his intelligence behind a savage look, but Fulgrim seems to have a benevolant look upon him. What is the other primarchs thoughts about each other ? Relations ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Not aware of any specific fluff regarding the Lion and Dorn. I think they'd get along in a friendly manner without really building any particularly close bonds. They'd respect each other and wouldn't really see each other as direct rivals IMO. Otherwise: - Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus were close. - Fulgrim and Magnus spent some time together when Magnus was first found. - Guilliman felt a special closeness based on successful cooperation with Ferrus, Sanguinius, and two others that elude me just at the moment. - Vulkan and Ferrus got along well, albeit with some clear basic personality differences. - Everybody loved Horus, although some like the Lion were jealous when he was elevated. - Everyone who wasn't insane seems to have loved Sanguinius. - In older fluff Alpharius had a special bond with Horus. This appears to have been retconned away with the new Alpha Legion material. - Lorgar seems to have liked Magnus. - Russ clashed with Magnus and Angron. There will be more, but that's what I can think of at the moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 The allies chart on page 185 of HH: Betrayal is probably a good place to start. That being said, I'm not 100% percent behind some of the choices in it. For instance, the Iron Hands and Space Wolves (and by extension, Ferrus and Russ) are distrustful of each other. I always figured that of all the Primarchs, Russ, Ferrus, and the Khan would all have been reasonably close because of a shared upbringing in tribal societies on primitive worlds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astral Pathfinder Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 Tribal societies tend to be very self-reliant so I'm not sure it could be a bond. Good drinking and brutal jokes could be... Oh yeah i forgot about Fulgrim and Mannus. Fulgrim seems kind of a sympathic person when not influenced by a strange sword... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Guilliman trusted Dorn, Ferrus, Russ, and Sanguinius to get things done. Dorn and Horus had a close, martial bond. Horus and Sanguinius were the closest brothers of all the Primarchs. Fulgrim and Ferrus were close. The Khan and the Lion respected each other. Lorgar and Magnus had an academic relationship. Vulkan was friendly with most. Corax was socially awkward. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astral Pathfinder Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 What about the extreme points of view ? Angron, Curze ? Mortarion maybe ? Do we know how they saw their brothers ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Heremes Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Curze trusted fulgrim as they spent time together as curze got his legion and curze confided his visions of the the heresy to fulgrim before fulgrim tattled on curze to dorn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Im confused as to why Iron warriors are sworn brothers of the world eaters according to the charts. The only reasoning I could come up with is that Iron warriors have developed a bond that only the world eaters could admire through attrition and assaults on forlorn hope objectives such as conducting sieges. Anyone have any ideas? I can't remember anything from BL lore giving a reason. I am thinking about a specialist siege army now though with my WEs and an advisor cadre consisting of IWs ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Mortarion hated Magnus, probably because he hated psykers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 There seems to be a solid bond throughout regardless, though. Perturabo cried out in anguish when Fulgrim went down, as did Angron with Lorgar, Horus was outraged at the death of Ferrus Manus and cared more for his true brother Fulgrim then the thing possessing him, Russ did not want to take out Magnus and even tried to plead. They squabbled and even at times hated one another, but they one and all seemed to share at least some form of brotherhood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnabel Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Im confused as to why Iron warriors are sworn brothers of the world eaters according to the charts. The only reasoning I could come up with is that Iron warriors have developed a bond that only the world eaters could admire through attrition and assaults on forlorn hope objectives such as conducting sieges. Anyone have any ideas? I can't remember anything from BL lore giving a reason. I am thinking about a specialist siege army now though with my WEs and an advisor cadre consisting of IWs ;) In "After Desh'ea", a short story by Matthew Farrer, Khârn tells Angron a story about a campaign where War Hounds and Iron Warriors fought against some worm-like xenos, and he goes on to tell how Perturabo's superb siegeworks helped them in defeating the aliens. Khârn seemed to hold Iron Warriors in high regard, so I presume that other War Hounds/World Eaters as well have the same sentiment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 @schnabel Aha, thanks for that tidbit I couldn't remember that. I just wish it were more expanded upon as the world eaters have little admiration for allies or vice virsa it seems. Didn't sigusmund and a cohort of IF spend time crusading with the WEs for a time? Isn't that why black Templars chain their weapons to themselves bc of that learned tradition? Then why aren't IF and WEs better friends? I mean pretty much all legions can agree that Angron and his ilk are nut cases but some have admiration for them such as the Khan and Ferrous Manus. Then why do most of those forces in the charts seem to distrust and resent them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3359527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachnid99 Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Sigismund definitely spent time in the World Eaters Fighting Pits but that's all we know. It could have just been him on exchange, it could have been at Ullanor or some other multi-Legion muster, it could be anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Beetle Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 In Angel Exterminatus, Perturabo seems to have a respect for Vulkan because of his craftsmanship and gave an art sculpture/time piece to Guilliman (who mounted it to the top of the Temple of Correction). He seemed to dislike most other Primarchs or rather, the ones that he felt slighted him and his legion to more menial tasks-especially Dorn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Ive always been hoping for an extrapolation of the Dorn/Perturabo relationship. Right now it seems like Perturabo was too insensitive to Dorn's stoniness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Reminds me of Ferrus Manus/Vulkan. One has aspirations beyond war while the other is more about pragmatic applications and harsj adherence to duty. Aside from that viewpoint, they are otherwise very similar. However, its their similarities that make the differences stand out so much, leading to the outright hostility seen with Pert n' Dorn. Bert and Ernie. Heh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 As old as this is, and as fan-made as this is (and as many times as I've posted it ;)) I still like referring to this write up of the Primarch's relation to arcana of the tarot: http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html While there might be a few discrepancies now that the primarchs have been fleshed out more, I still like to guess at various relationships with it. Especially that between Curze and Sanguinius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 As old as this is, and as fan-made as this is (and as many times as I've posted it ) I still like referring to this write up of the Primarch's relation to arcana of the tarot: http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html While there might be a few discrepancies now that the primarchs have been fleshed out more, I still like to guess at various relationships with it. Especially that between Curze and Sanguinius What exactly is that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 As old as this is, and as fan-made as this is (and as many times as I've posted it ) I still like referring to this write up of the Primarch's relation to arcana of the tarot: http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html While there might be a few discrepancies now that the primarchs have been fleshed out more, I still like to guess at various relationships with it. Especially that between Curze and Sanguinius What exactly is that? It ties interpretations of the 22 Major Arcana of the Tarot to the primarchs, with 0: The Fool seemingly referenced as the Emperor, and 21: The World being referenced as the Imperium as a whole, or at least normal humans. Each of the interactions is based on the interactions of the various tarot with one another, from a spiritual sense, and in most cases it matches up surprisingly well, even using those connections to make inference into possible relationships the missing primarchs might've had with their brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Or you can say they mimic the Angels from Catholic tradition/Dante/Milton. Emperor as God, Horus as Lucifer, Sanguinius as Michael, etc. Or from different mythologies - a smith god, a war god, Janus/twin gods, etc. They're a hodgepodge of archetypes from a raft of influences. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretical Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 to my knowledge not many people liked mortarion because of his use of 'dirty' tactics such as chemical weapons and such.. same goes for angron. Also in Horus rising it mentions guillimans and i cant remember who else (dorn maybe) somewhat jealousy (term used very lightly) of horus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 It was Guilliman and el'Jonson. He was 'upset' at Dorn because he felt Dorn accepted him as Warmaster because the Emperor told him to, not because he felt Horus was the best choice. Guilliman was in the same category. Baring in mind this was Horus's embittered take on things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I doubt anybody (except Perturabo and Kurze) had a bitterness against Dorn; because he was a man of duty, far from any petty rivalry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I doubt Alpharius had a very good relation with anyone, except Horus. And I doubt that he even had a very good relationship with him... ...and that makes me sad... :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I doubt Alpharius had a very good relation with anyone, except Horus. And I doubt that he even had a very good relationship with him... ...and that makes me sad... When was Alpharius found? Probably most of the primarchs didn't get a chance to know him well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/#findComment-3360863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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