Excessus Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I doubt Alpharius had a very good relation with anyone, except Horus. And I doubt that he even had a very good relationship with him... ...and that makes me sad... When was Alpharius found? Probably most of the primarchs didn't get a chance to know him well. Exactly, he was found last, and spent time with Horus mostly, he did go back to terra for his big welcome party, but I guess limited was available to spend valuable time with his brothers. If he would have been found much earlier, his story could have been pretty different. Imagine him bonding with Corax, for instance... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3360872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I doubt Alpharius had a very good relation with anyone, except Horus. And I doubt that he even had a very good relationship with him... ...and that makes me sad... When was Alpharius found? Probably most of the primarchs didn't get a chance to know him well. He was the last one to be found. Horus found him and kept him with him for a while, because the two were amazed of each other. With the fact that Horus supported Alpharius when Guilliman tried to bully him, it's easy to understand that Horus was the only friend of Alpharius among the Primarchs. In many regards, the IA paints Alpharius as Horus' protégé. There was a special bond between those two. Horus was the only Primarch with whom Alpharius had any regular contact. The two appeared to respect each other greatly and are thought to have discussed tactics often. On his lack of relation with the others : Alpharius did not seek glory or honors for himself and rarely attended victory celebrations. Consequently, he never spent much time with the other Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3360883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Let's not forget that Alpharius was kind of a BOGO of a Primarch. His closest Primarch relationship was wtih Omegon above all others... they kind of have an exclusive thing going on there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3360937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 BOGO? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3360947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajae Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 BOGO? Buy One Get One Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3360963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I always thought Corax didn't really like Horus, but I don't think that's ever been expanded on in the the book series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3360985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Nah more like buy one, get 60,000 for free. After all, they are all Alpharius ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3360992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I always thought Corax didn't really like Horus, but I don't think that's ever been expanded on in the the book series. i believe that comes from the old Index Astartes article on the Raven Guard. Corax took offense at Horus's bombastic attitude and reaping all the glory from the joint efforts of the Sons of Horus and Raven Guard. It even goes so far to say that the SoH victory tally was so high from claiming complete credit from joint efforts, and that Corax nearly came to blows with Horus before withdrawing his forces from Horus's command. Also, both Guilliman and Corax spoke to the Emperor at different times about the loyalty of Mortarion, and where it truely lay. The Emperor dismissed their concern saying loyalty to Horus was loyalty to him. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3361444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Can't remember where exactly it's stated but Curze and Mortarion were quite chummy apparently. I suspect we might see something re. the Scars as well about why Horus thought the Khan would join him. It's also mentioned in fear to tread by Sanguinius that Lorgar would not be generous if any malicious rumours got out about him although I find this curious given Lorgar's spirituality and Sangiunius being, to all intents and purposes, an angel incarnate Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3361684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Did Horus ever say he expected the Khan to join him? In Garro: Sword of Truth its mentioned that he is one of the primarchs most fiercely personally loyal to the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3361837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Did Horus ever say he expected the Khan to join him? In Garro: Sword of Truth its mentioned that he is one of the primarchs most fiercely personally loyal to the Emperor. Horus' expectation that Khan would join him was in old fluff. I don't know if they verify it with the Horus Heresy series Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3362007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 In Deliverance Lost Corax mentions: "The primarch of the Raven Guard had never been on cordial terms with Horus. He had always found him too extravagant, too ready to make displays of power during his conquests. " "Yet for all he had disliked Horus, Corax had admired him. He had admired his easy camaraderie with those under his command, and had known that Horus was the more accomplished commander over many campaigns, gifted with a rare ability for both the overview and the fine management of details, something that Corax had never quite equalled." "Physically, Horus and Corax had proved an even match for each other in their mock-duels and wrestling bouts. Such sparring had not created any greater bond between them, as it had done with the other primarchs, but Corax had never considered the possibility that one day he might have to test his worth against Horus for real." You also have Guillimen and his Dauntless few--Dorn, Sang, Russ, Manus. Regarding the Khan: "Guilliman admires the Khan greatly, but the White Scars are neither predictable nor trustworthy. " The Lion may have been close, in a way, to Curze: "For a time, I considered you my truest brother. No others grew untouched by civilisation, only you and I.’" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3363415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Post Istvaan te iron hands developed some ill feelings towards the raven guard and the salamanders for letting Ferrus die while corax and Vulkan lived. But that is old fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3363834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 In Deliverance Lost Corax mentions: "The primarch of the Raven Guard had never been on cordial terms with Horus. He had always found him too extravagant, too ready to make displays of power during his conquests. " "Yet for all he had disliked Horus, Corax had admired him. He had admired his easy camaraderie with those under his command, and had known that Horus was the more accomplished commander over many campaigns, gifted with a rare ability for both the overview and the fine management of details, something that Corax had never quite equalled." "Physically, Horus and Corax had proved an even match for each other in their mock-duels and wrestling bouts. Such sparring had not created any greater bond between them, as it had done with the other primarchs, but Corax had never considered the possibility that one day he might have to test his worth against Horus for real." You also have Guillimen and his Dauntless few--Dorn, Sang, Russ, Manus. Regarding the Khan: "Guilliman admires the Khan greatly, but the White Scars are neither predictable nor trustworthy. " The Lion may have been close, in a way, to Curze: "For a time, I considered you my truest brother. No others grew untouched by civilisation, only you and I.’" Offcourse Guilliman distrusts the Khan. At heart the Khan is an empire destroyer while Guilliman is an empire builder. Two rpimarchs completly differnt in outlook and tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3363947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 ^ This is more accurate when comparing Russ and Guiliman, but they obviously worked together nicely...hmmmm Also I've read that Russ and Khan were close ? And IMHO no matter how they were arch rivals, Lion and Russ had a twisted bro-mance in a way (*my pov*)... I think strongest bro-love was between Fulgrim and Manus... Also don't forget Horus and Alpharious (before cabal, mission impossible gak).... Lorgar and Magnus (until Magnus goes "there are no gods, I' am smarter then those warp leeches"), then Lorgar turns like a madman.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Post Istvaan te iron hands developed some ill feelings towards the raven guard and the salamanders for letting Ferrus die while corax and Vulkan lived. But that is old fluff. I think they are still bickering about that....Especially IH and RG.... sorry about dp... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Russ doesn't really fit the 'empire destroyer' label as much as the Khan and no more than any Primarch during the Great Crusade. The Khan gathered his tribes, broke an empire apart and then went back to his tribes. Guilliman's backstory is remarkably similar, only he was the imperial who conquered the tribes and then went back to the empire. After making the barbarian tribes a better empire than the old. The two Primarchs had very opposing origins and I think this led to Guilliman thinking the Khan unreliable. Russ, on the other hand, is also steeped in barbarism but is seen as more reliable in the sense that Guilliman can always know what his response to things will be. Basically, he's simple to figure out, though recent portrayals have shown him to be far more complicated, as a Primarch should be. So though their outlook and tactics may differ, Guilliman may feel that he know Russ well enough to tailor his over-all plans around him to his liking, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Actually it does - every bit in "aTS and "PB" was about wolves and killing....This is like their only thing - Emperor's attack dogs, nothing more, nothing less...System kill is their term...Russ even doesn't consider himself as nothing more than that...There is that mention from Robute in "Know no fear" where he thinks that Russ and Angron don't see themselves as future governors and rulers... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Right . . . But what does that have to do with being labelled 'empire destroyer?' Kin killer, sure. That one Primarch who always forgets friendly fire is on, yeah. But the Khan is the one who destroyed his homeworld's empire in favor of the barbaric tribes, while Guilliman enfolded his world's tribes into his empire. The two are mutually opposed. Russ's backstory? Out-Viking everyone until the Emperor shows up to out-Viking him. During the Crusade, he's one of the Legions that goes past the limits of others. But aside from the odd human empire that decided against joining the Imperium, he hasn't destroyed any empires. And I'm excluding those because every Primarch did that. We've seen examples of three empires destroyed in the opening trilogy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Actually it does - every bit in "aTS and "PB" was about wolves and killing....This is like their only thing - Emperor's attack dogs, nothing more, nothing less...System kill is their term...Russ even doesn't consider himself as nothing more than that...There is that mention from Robute in "Know no fear" where he thinks that Russ and Angron don't see themselves as future governors and rulers... Executioners, according to Long Fang #6451. You know, the most reliable guy in the whole Galaxy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Kin killer? Actually it does - every bit in "aTS and "PB" was about wolves and killing....This is like their only thing - Emperor's attack dogs, nothing more, nothing less...System kill is their term...Russ even doesn't consider himself as nothing more than that...There is that mention from Robute in "Know no fear" where he thinks that Russ and Angron don't see themselves as future governors and rulers... Executioners, according to Long Fang #6451. You know, the most reliable guy in the whole Galaxy. Don't forget that deamon (vision of future Horus) from Hawser's vision - he calls them executioners too :-) ‘I am clearing the board for the game tocome,’ he said. ‘I am setting it out the way I want it. Two key obstacles to myambitions are the Sons of Prospero and the Wolves of Fenris. The former is theonly Legion that has lorecraft enough to hinder me magically; the latter is theonly Legion dangerous enough to represent a genuine military threat. TheEmperor’s sorcerers and the Emperor’s executioners. I have no wish to store upa fight with either for my future, so I have invested time and energy arrangingevents to turn them upon each other.’ And please it hurts my stomach when thinking how this mess started and how BL corrected that...by making them deluded - bravisimo... Also I don't understand your point - are you deliberatly provoking me ? Also @ C_c-A-t Where other Chapters, such as the Ultramarines,were made to build empires, the Wolves were made to murder them, and todestroy anyone who opposes the Emperor's will, including otherAstartes.Their unorthodox behavior and organisation as well as their singleminded dedication to tear the enemy, any enemy apart like a wolf packbrings down a deadly prey reflects this original purpose. *Battle of the fang I think* Also I'm not some rabid fanboy - but I have my pov which I get from BL books mostly...So this is my biased opinion, but bare in mind every primarch was empire killer and only one, maybe two were empire creators on top of that....So my opinion again... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 The Vikings never destroyed an empire though. The Mongols did. That is his point. The wolves go in, break stuff and leave. The white scars go in break stuff and stay. That's what he's getting at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Kin killer? Actually it does - every bit in "aTS and "PB" was about wolves and killing....This is like their only thing - Emperor's attack dogs, nothing more, nothing less...System kill is their term...Russ even doesn't consider himself as nothing more than that...There is that mention from Robute in "Know no fear" where he thinks that Russ and Angron don't see themselves as future governors and rulers... Executioners, according to Long Fang #6451. You know, the most reliable guy in the whole Galaxy. Don't forget that deamon (vision of future Horus) from Hawser's vision - he calls them executioners too :-) ‘I am clearing the board for the game to come,’ he said. ‘I am setting it out the way I want it. Two key obstacles to my ambitions are the Sons of Prospero and the Wolves of Fenris. The former is the only Legion that has lorecraft enough to hinder me magically; the latter is the only Legion dangerous enough to represent a genuine military threat. The Emperor’s sorcerers and the Emperor’s executioners. I have no wish to store up a fight with either for my future, so I have invested time and energy arranging events to turn them upon each other.’ And please it hurts my stomach when thinking how this mess started and how BL corrected that...by making them deluded - bravisimo... Also I don't understand your point - are you deliberatly provoking me ? Thing is, the TS never were the emperor's sorcerers. So I wouldn't hold that quote as a rock hard proof. For example, what is written in Betrayal about the War Hounds, from an omniscient narrator, saying that "when the emperor wanted something killed, he just sent the War Hounds" is implying they might be the real "executioners". I wasn't trying to provoke you. I may have written my post hastly, but what I meant to point out is that according to the current fluff, the SW aren't "empire destroyers" as Cormac Airt pointed out in his good opposition Khan/Guilliman. And there isn't really many hints saying they could really be the emperor's executioners. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 This is why I put smiley on top of my comment...If deamon says so it must be true.... But unfortunately that executioners argumentum ad populum will stick somehow, and it really makes me sick to even start discussion about that...It's becoming something like constant Ward whines and I cringe when someone starts with that.... The Vikings never destroyed an empire though. The Mongols did. That is his point. The wolves go in, break stuff and leave. The white scars go in break stuff and stay. That's what he's getting at. Ty dude - I really couldn't understand what he was saying.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 ^ This is more accurate when comparing Russ and Guiliman, but they obviously worked together nicely...hmmmm Also I've read that Russ and Khan were close ? And IMHO no matter how they were arch rivals, Lion and Russ had a twisted bro-mance in a way (*my pov*)... I think strongest bro-love was between Fulgrim and Manus... Also don't forget Horus and Alpharious (before cabal, mission impossible gak).... Lorgar and Magnus (until Magnus goes "there are no gods, I' am smarter then those warp leeches"), then Lorgar turns like a madman.... No not really the Khans/white scars doctrine is constant movement without regards to logistics with no center except where the Khan is. Fenrisians and chogorians have a different outlook even though they are both ''savages''. Fenrisians are nomadic out of neccesity Chogorians are nomads because they like it that way. Jagathai view of centered civilizations is of targets to attack his philosphy is simply to destroy those civilizations and then move on to the next target. Brotherhood of the storm gives us insight into the khans/whitescars point of view. If the Khan and Guilliman where forced to work together for an extended period of time i could see them coming to blows. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274676-relations-between-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3366181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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