Icongraphy for Veterans

[Molgorain]

It feels so silly that all other DA have something on their right shoulderpad, but not the veterans.

 

DA Tacticals have the twoheaded arrow.

DA Assualts have the fourheaded arrow.

DA Devastators have the explosion.

 

But what does the Veterans  have?

 

Im thinking about using different variants of the Crux Terminatus, like the UM-veterans.

 

What marks your veterans out, except from the bathrobe?

 

[MadDoc]

But what does the Veterans  have?

 

Im thinking about using different variants of the Crux Terminatus, like the UM-veterans.

Given that DA Company Veterans are neither first Company nor Deathwing and so don't have Terminator Honours (the very thing the Crux Terminatus denotes), I would tend not to go with the Crux Terminatus.

 

The Codex doesn't depict them with any specific iconography, which isn't surprising given that they're noted as being ad hoc/ transient formations.

 

Personally, I'd leave them unmarked or with minimal embellishments, due in no small part to the paragraph below from their Codex Bestiary entry...

 

Although they are honoured and held in high esteem, it is not always easy for outsiders to pick out the Chapter's honoured Veterans, for it is the nature of the Dark Angels to remain forever stoic and unembellished. Taking after the Company Masters, whom they revere as spititual leaders as well as great tacticians, these Veterans renounce the garish and conspicuous - not for them the gold-encrusted armour of an honour guard or some ostentatious plume to denote to all onlookers their exalted station. Instead, only the keenest eye can perhaps discern a ceremonial robe or catch the odd gleam from some antiquated and honoured wargear gifted to them for their acts of bravery. On the battlefield, however, it is no hard task to mark out the Company Veterans - for they fight as a band of heroes, weapons blazing with precision bursts and foes falling before them like wheat before a scythe.

 

YMMV

[Master Sheol]

i confirm what MAdDoc said... in reality Company veterans are not included in the DA's FOC... th3ey are units that dont "exist" therefore they dont have any heralrdy...

[Bryan Blaire]

I agree with MadDoc and Master Sheol, the Dark Angels Company Veterans have no/minimal markings per the Codex. My DIY uses a simple bone stripe on the helm and instead of a Tactical, Assault or Dev marking, wear one of the fancier shoulder pads from the Upgrade Frame (like the hanging winged sword, sword+laurel, or hanging fabric) on that shoulder. This is also the marking set for sergeants in my chapter, allowing to freely swap in and out whoever I want.

[Bunta]

I am a order freak so I need a squad marking for my vets, they will be using the silver skulls shoulder pad from GW as their squad mark.

[Brother dean]

The FW decal sheet came with a red skull for command squads so I just used it for the vets squad too.  Although I do still have a squad marked as tac squad 5 under the old codex's "replaces another tactical squad" bit (paraphrased)

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/fred40k2002/Dark%20Angels/firstsquad002-2.jpg

[Phoebus]

Looking at the Codex, you have a couple of options:

 

1. MadDoc gave you the fluff text, which gives you basic creative direction.

2. The Company Veterans miniatures in the gallery give you a range of examples (from Tactical Squad markings to studded pauldrons, an embossed sword, rope-like designs, and what appear to be combinations of more than one of these).

 

Beyond that, you can go for artistic license. Fluff text aside, the artwork done for the Dark Angels in this Codex and other publications (the White Dwarf spine, the 6E rulebook, etc.) seem to balance power armor with elegant - but not over-the-top - designs and "bling" (such as lanterns, winged-sword devices, books, heraldic shields) with fairly austere robes.

 

I would offer that Dark Angels are heavy on mystery and symbolism. Why not figure out what items, devices, etc., are symbols of being "simply" a hero within the Chapter (e.g., winged sword or skull devices) and which indicate that one has been initiated in the deeper mysteries of the Chapter (e.g., a book for knowledge, a lantern for looking into darkness, etc.).

[Molgorain]

Looking at the Codex, you have a couple of options:

 

1. MadDoc gave you the fluff text, which gives you basic creative direction.
2. The Company Veterans miniatures in the gallery give you a range of examples (from Tactical Squad markings to studded pauldrons, an embossed sword, rope-like designs, and what appear to be combinations of more than one of these).

Beyond that, you can go for artistic license. Fluff text aside, the artwork done for the Dark Angels in this Codex and other publications (the White Dwarf spine, the 6E rulebook, etc.) seem to balance power armor with elegant - but not over-the-top - designs and "bling" (such as lanterns, winged-sword devices, books, heraldic shields) with fairly austere robes.

I would offer that Dark Angels are heavy on mystery and symbolism. Why not figure out what items, devices, etc., are symbols of being "simply" a hero within the Chapter (e.g., winged sword or skull devices) and which indicate that one has been initiated in the deeper mysteries of the Chapter (e.g., a book for knowledge, a lantern for looking into darkness, etc.).

 

Looking at the Codex, you have a couple of options:

I would offer that Dark Angels are heavy on mystery and symbolism. Why not figure out what items, devices, etc., are symbols of being "simply" a hero within the Chapter (e.g., winged sword or skull devices) and which indicate that one has been initiated in the deeper mysteries of the Chapter (e.g., a book for knowledge, a lantern for looking into darkness, etc.).

 

Great idea!

 

I´ll go for the symbolism, had a few ideas for the command group that will apply for the veterans.

[pueriexdeus]

I use a simple application of Lt Blue coloring on the Sqt/Vet pauldron. Fluff-wise its a representation of the blue sky's of Terra. Its also the default color for Infantry is US Army heraldry

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/pueriexdeus/006.jpg

[roninmodern]

My veterans will all be marked by having intricate gold trim and filigree on their armour.

[Isiah]

I like the idea of the skull. Maybe red for the Command Squad and white for the Veterans? 

[Interrogator Stobz]

The guidelines posted above make sense, but you can be flexible if you like.

I use a DA shoulderpad on the left as per normal PA marines (I use the raised blade ones with decal wings) and any combo of the Vet shoulderpads on the right to show the individualism allowed to veteran status marines. I also trim them with metal to provide a subtle point of difference for the "keenest eye" to notice

Remember that there is no requirement to not have a crux or two either, the marines might be DW working within the ranks for some inner circle nefarious scheme(like recruiting/assessing potential DW members); you can take or leave new vs old fluff as suits you there too.

Example:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7081/6895226216_e73f6d0767_c.jpg

Are they Veterans or are they Tacticals?

All the bling available on the various DA sprues is fair game to add to any and all our dudes both fluff wise and modelling wise, go nuts.

Feel free to add extras from other kits it you really want too, they are your models after all.

2c

Stobz

[Cypher 102]

Considering that my veterans are all wearing robes and thus their knee pads can't be seen I'm planning on painting the company heraldry on their open shoulder pad with some personal variations.

[Isiah]

Sounds cool. Remember - pics or it didn't happen ;)

[Vijok]

My first post on B&C so: Hi!

And what do you think of that combo:

- one shoulderpad with crux terminatus

- second with old metal deathwing pad (PA size)

Only which pad goes on the left and which on the right?

[Bryan Blaire]

For an Interrogator-Chaplain, Librarian, or non-Company affiliated Master/Grand Master, sure. For anyone else, it would be wrong. A Company Master might wear the Crux, but he's not going to wear Deathwing panoply while he's in charge of a company (he'd wear the company panoply or personal heraldry). Same goes for the Ravenwing. The DW master will be in TDA, not PA, as will all other DW members. It would be completely wrong on the Company Vets because they have never been Deathwing, so should wear neither the DW symbol or the Crux Terminatus.

[Vijok]

You're right, but let me clarify just a little bit:

- Deathwing pad is there for the shape of the winged sword, it will be in standard company colours with the broken sword gs'ed

- Crux - I was thinking of this as a badge of honour, not restricted to termies only, and am I correct, that in the past Comp Vets had an option to take Terminators Honours?

[Bryan Blaire]

If it is the broken sword made whole with GS, then it isn't actually a DW symbol anyway, just the Chapter badge. As far as the Crux, no, DA Company Vets haven't been able to take Terminator Honors - they only got put in at 4th Edition (although Sergeants could be upgraded to Deathwing Sergeants in 3rd Ed), and while other Chapters use it to indicate veterans, they are always those veterans trained to use Terminator armor, or those eligible to be trained on such (which Company Vets are not). Since the DA only train Deathwing to use Terminator armor, then only the Deathwing and those advanced out of it would be using the Crux following the traditional scheme, so a PA Company Vet having it would be wrong. A Deathwing Sergeant in PA could potentially use the Crux, but we don't actually have an option that specifically makes Deatwing Sergeants for PA squads any more.

 

That said, that's the traditional interpretation. If your personal want is to use it, then go for it. They are your models, you should do what you want.

[Brother Immolator]

Yeah I am doing a bit of thinking (scary I know) myself for the terminator cross (not the pad, the gem/thingie).

 

But it been the representation of the crux terminatus on power armor, I suspect that it is off the picture as well. Now there is that biker model in the DV though that wears the crux....Too complicated really>

[Bryan Blaire]

Now there is that biker model in the DV though that wears the crux....Too complicated really>

If you are talking about the Sgt, it's not a Crux Terminatus, at least, not in a form I've seen. The back piece is rotated 45 degrees, so that the lobes (for lack of a better term) are canted at a NE/SE/SW/NW orientation (on a compass), rather than the N/E/S/W orientation of the lobes/cross on the actual Crux Terminatus.

 

However, I wouldn't put it past some Sgts and possibly even DW members assigned to Companies as Company Vets to bear the Crux Terminatus, I just think it would be rare, and I would question the DW-as-Company-Vets thing, because that seems like it should be a clandestine type mission, in which case they shouldn't bear any inappropriate markings.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I agree Bryan that it would be 'rare' in the scheme of things but RL special forces do it right now. They regularly send troops to enhance their leadership skills and to train other units with interoperability and to subtly recruit where able.

An organisation like the Dark Angels with all their levels of deceit and lies that are used to shape the thinking of the Chapter would have no problem with inserting a DW member as a Sgt or even among Company Vets to assess potential (both good and bad). Think of it as a precurser to a Libby/Chappy getting involved for more rigourous testing.

That does not change the fact that the First Company goes to battle in TDA, it's just a posting for the member after all.

With regard to the markings; All it shows to the other members of the Chapter is that he is trained to fight in said TDA (Just like other less secretive Chapters), not that he knows secrets regarding the Fallen. It even helps to make outsiders think that the Deathwing are 'normal' veterans and nothing to be 'concerned' about.

Just my 2c, everyone has a different vision of the lovelyness of our beloved Angels

s

[Bryan Blaire]

That's true, Stobz, after all, the SGT leading my Company vets unit is a full Deathwalker (my 1st Company). I don't think the usage of those markings are appropriate for a full unit of Company vets though, just a member or three of a Company's "leadership" positions. The entirety of a Company Vets unit isn't going to have the crux markings.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Totally agree, that's why I run my dudes with personal heraldry instead of a squad marking and sneak a few crux's in, mostly my Sgts due to the 3rd Ed influence.

I have separated the two vets squads with a different coloured handle on the sword on the DA icon on the left pad, one squad red one squad gold.

 

Stobz

[Skylifter]

I always considered company veterans to be basically the best squad of the company. They wouldn't actually hold a different rank or wear special honours. I'll probably just give them the markings of a company's first tactical squad and put slightly more bling on them than I do on normal tactical marines. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Nuthin wrong with that approach too :)