Blood Angels at Adepticon 2013 (Shame to the Chapter?)

[Deadpool1713]

BA have cheap troop choices for what you get. It's just what you get is no longer as useful as it once was.

 

They just need to tweak tactical marines in general, codex wide to make them more desirable.

 

I feel like assault marines need to be a bit better in the BA dex. The squad by themselves works like pretty much every other space marine assault squad. The only thing that sets our assault marines apart from the rest is adding a priest. I feel that since we are more of an assault based chapter, our assault marines should have some sort of slight edge as a stand alone squad. I do agree with tweaking the tac squads a tiny bit though.

[Morticon]

 

BA have cheap troop choices for what you get. It's just what you get is no longer as useful as it once was.

 

They just need to tweak tactical marines in general, codex wide to make them more desirable.

 

I feel like assault marines need to be a bit better in the BA dex. The squad by themselves works like pretty much every other space marine assault squad. The only thing that sets our assault marines apart from the rest is adding a priest. I feel that since we are more of an assault based chapter, our assault marines should have some sort of slight edge as a stand alone squad. I do agree with tweaking the tac squads a tiny bit though.

 

Sounds like a good idea! Maybe a small rule like "fury of the Blood Angels" where on the turn they charge they get +1 to their initia....oh wait...

 

:( :cries: 

[Memento Of Prospero]

You know, assault marines have a great price tag. The issue is that they are not flexible in their utility in the way tactical squads are for other chapters. I would love to be able to replace their CCW for a bolter. This would give us some interesting choices and allow us to use mobile fire bases that are not death company.

[The Yncarne]

Codex assault squads can't take two special weapons can they? I think that's still an advantage.

 

As a whole, assault squads just aren't as important as they used to be. That's sixth edition. If DC scored, they'd be the no-brainer choice with improved bolter shooting and a strong assault option.

 

Aside from cheaper points, I don't know what can make a tactical squad more attractive. Sixth edition's emphasis on troops means solid troop options are the key to any successful army selection.

[Memento Of Prospero]

The thing is, the more I play this army, the less I want to use tactical squads. They are at odds with the fluidity and speed of the army. We have access to all sorts of flavours of dedicated transports, fast tanks and jump infantry as troops elites and fast attack.

 

Jump pack devastators would be awesome, with up to 4 metlas/flamers/plasmas. 

 

I love the in your face style we have. I think they can push that theme further and make blood angels a more unique chapter.

[ianj253]

I saw someone else suggest that BA should get to use their Jump pack to move and assault. This would be a nice buff as we could get more use out of hammer of wrath and re rolling assault range would be nice 

[StJude]

Our assault squads have two options that also separate us from normal assault marines.

 

The descent of angels special rule means we can deepstrike closer and more reliably than our brothers. Meaning, we have a better chance to deepstrike behind flyers and hopefully out of LoS of Helldrakes...and a better chance of getting in melta range.

 

Still doesn't solve the cost issue, but something that shouldn't be overlooked.

[Riggs]

Our assault squads have two options that also separate us from normal assault marines.

 

The descent of angels special rule means we can deepstrike closer and more reliably than our brothers. Meaning, we have a better chance to deepstrike behind flyers and hopefully out of LoS of Helldrakes...and a better chance of getting in melta range.

 

Still doesn't solve the cost issue, but something that shouldn't be overlooked.

And 1/6 to get FC (the fearless is an up and a down). I feel their a solid troop choice for their price. I do miss being I5 but maybe our 6th ed codex will maybe do something about that.

[Ushtarador]

 

I would love to be able to replace their CCW for a bolter.

 

That would actually be awesome, and finally make those plasma guns viable as well. Highly mobile tacticals with light special weapons sounds amazing. The jumppack devastator unit sounds really cool as well :)

 

Being able to use the JP in movement and assault would be a great addition too. As it is now, I never use hammer of wrath unless I manage to get within 4'' or so with normal movement, the risk of failing an assault is just too great to justify those HoW hits.

[knife&fork]

As long as we're wishlisting make jump packs move 20" again :P

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Price breaks are a great step in the right direction, but Abilities are what makes/breaks a great Codex. Heck, I would even maintain that Necrons rely entirely on the "Invasion Beams" FAQ and the Heldrakes are relying on their Baleflamer FAQ. Scythes are amazing for their price, but honestly it is their ability to unload Scorers even after moving 24" is why they dominate objective games.

 

If all it takes is an FAQ to make a Codex viable then there is hope for anyone. GW may or may not be controlling the Top 'Dexes more than we might think (ie conspiracy theory approach). Honestly, barring GK I cannot think of any codex that sits atop the pole for more than a year or two before being surpassed. And GW can instantly nullify or empower any Codex through their FAQs.

[Zynk Kaladin]

As long as we're wishlisting make jump packs move 20" again

When was this and why wasn't I into the hobby back then? I would kill for this. KILL.

[knife&fork]

Good ol 2nd Ed! ;)

 

All vehicles were much faster back then but compared to normal human infantry that could only move 4" having a 20" inch move was huge. Particularly when most missions were only 4 turns.

[I am Legion]

2nd truly was the best for blood angels. I used to rip through opponents. Except that one tournie where my assault failed with my RAS with Dante by 2 millimeters and i was cut down to the man by eldar lol. It was pretty epicly fail.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

I actually preferred 3rd edition, because that was the first time we got Red Thirst rules!  Before that there was no practical difference between the Angels of Death codex and Ultramarines besides our special characters.

 

But Mephiston and Dante WERE insane in 2nd edition.

[Targetawg]

My first question: Who is Andrew Gonyo and what was his list?

 

I navigated my way to the following webpage, showing the results from Adepticon 2013.

http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=5838

 

On the page, you can click on each header to sort by that field. Using this, I sorted by "Battle" because I assume (could be wrong) that that represents that Player's game performance devoid of Sportsmanship, painting or anything else, just pure Game Score.

 

Sorting by "Battle" the name Andrew Gonyo comes up with IG/BA as the highest performing BA player at Adepticon, out of 11 total Players who took BA at all. However, from the scores it appears Gonyo did extremely well even in the Overall Rankings.

 

A cursory Google search turns up that Gonyo was on Nick Nanavati's Team (Nanavati won Overall Champion) which also won the Team Tournament. Google goes cold however when I try to find what Gonyo's IG/BA list was...

 

Anyone have any idea and/or leads?

 

Also, it is rather sad to see that only 11 players brought the BA codex at all in a Tournament of 233 slots...

 

Andrew Gonyo here, I took IG/BA to give my double blob counter assault and to play something new for a change, I've been running GK, GK/IG, IG/BA and a few other things in the last year, I just like taking something new to each event to keep it fresh.

 

The list played extremely well, and my one loss was sadly in the scouring, hammer and anvil, in a game that just needed to physically go faster...we eeked in turn 4 with 10 minutes left, leaving me with a loss, turn 5 would have had me win with a tabling, but he had more scouring points, and they were 6 inches off his edge...so not much I could do about it.

 

My list (from memory/bit rough):

 

BA Libby

19x Death Company, 1 Fist

Brother Corbulo

 

CCS

2x PCS

10x Infantry Squads (2 50 man blobs, no autocannons, I think I had a few power axes, melta bombs, and a sniper rifle, bit it all blurs with how often I change these)

3x Solo vendettas

1x Marbo

ADL + Comms Relay

 

Libby and Corbulo each join a blob, giving them ATSKNF, and the rest is probably self explanatory. The BA book isn't that bad right now, blender dreads are legit, as are some of the HQ's, and they have all the other normal marine fixings, they just fall a bit flat in the troops department compared to newer books. I think they're a fine book if you use them with or as allies, as a mono-book army they're a bit blah admittedly.

 

And yea, our Team Tournament Team (They Shall Know Fear) is led informally by Hulksmash (Brad Townsend) as he was the driver behind getting it formed and coordinates/heads up almost all of the team related matters. Him and I do the lists, I do the painting, Aaron Aelong got the displays built this year, and Nick...we get him to show up and that's about it, but we love him anyways :). Just a group of guys that met/enjoyed playing each other at GTs over the years and decided to make a team, it's turned out well for us!

[Zynk Kaladin]

Oh my dang, painting all 100 of those guardsmen and 19 DC must have been a glorious experience.  It took me forever just to pump out my two assault squads (who are still not 100% finished).

 

Thanks for the list!

[Morticon]

Shotto for the insight! :tu: and thanks for posting/joining :) 

[Ushtarador]

haha amazing that you found us :D that list looks really unorthodox, awesome to hear that it performed that well!

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Thanks for finding us! Not sure how or who pointed you this way, but I'm glad to have that nagging question answered-- thanks mate!

 

That said, wow that list is not for the faint-hearted. To be quite honest, I need to sit down and watch a youtube of someone actually physically playing 120+ Infantry Army-lists (IG, Orks, etc). The time-management aspect has got to be one of the major factors towards winning (and as you mentioned, your one loss was from lack of time) because moving and managing that many Infantry models is a feat in and of itself. Proper strategy generally takes time and deliberate thought (which cuts into your playing time), unless proper strategy comes second-hand due to massive amounts of previous playtime and experience with an army-type. I was discussing with of my best friends and my 40k Mentor about mass light infantry armies, and he gave a nod to the raw skill involved due to the limiting factor of Time. I look at both Yours and Kopach's double IG-Blob lists and am reminded that it takes not just Generalship and Strategy but also Good Player Habits to be able to use that many models to their full-effect and take the win.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

As far as I can see, BA Assault Marines would have gotten worse in 6th just due to the change in shooting and overwatch. Nerfing Furious Charge on top of that is a double nerf, and considering they weren't getting the complaints that GK Marines do, it all seems a bit weird to me.

Oops!

You don't see Jumpers in other Marine armies because they really are poor, and that was in 5th. BA were the only ones making them decent with FNP, FC, Melta guns and being TROOPS.

+++

What I wonder is, how well do BA act as host or guest to other Marine Dexes [i'm thinking SM & DA here] and would that combination become effective? Or is it just so much fodder for C:IG, GK and Newcrons....?

D'oh!

Vulkan & Meph, etc.

[Targetawg]

Thanks for finding us! Not sure how or who pointed you this way, but I'm glad to have that nagging question answered-- thanks mate!

 

That said, wow that list is not for the faint-hearted. To be quite honest, I need to sit down and watch a youtube of someone actually physically playing 120+ Infantry Army-lists (IG, Orks, etc). The time-management aspect has got to be one of the major factors towards winning (and as you mentioned, your one loss was from lack of time) because moving and managing that many Infantry models is a feat in and of itself. Proper strategy generally takes time and deliberate thought (which cuts into your playing time), unless proper strategy comes second-hand due to massive amounts of previous playtime and experience with an army-type. I was discussing with of my best friends and my 40k Mentor about mass light infantry armies, and he gave a nod to the raw skill involved due to the limiting factor of Time. I look at both Yours and Kopach's double IG-Blob lists and am reminded that it takes not just Generalship and Strategy but also Good Player Habits to be able to use that many models to their full-effect and take the win.

 

Found the site when randomly searching, I peruse most of the forums every now and then (though I hadn't signed up on here), and ran across this thread when looking for BA ideas to toy with. Sometimes ideas for units/army lists come from seeing some random thing some guy did, then running/tweaking it into my own list.

 

As to time and high model count army, all of my games went to t5 at least, or a natural finish - that was my only game that didn't. My opponent (who I like/know on a personal level) was more of a thoughtful/deliberate player, and so setup/turns ended up taking a while, esp. with mysterious crap and scouring objectives and such, it was actually 50 minutes into this game when we started t1, all of my other games first turn was in progress as of 20 minutes in!

 

I'm pretty quick with the strategy aspect and focus on figuring it out/having a plan while my opponent is moving/doing his turns, this army has ~150 models, so it's one of the keys to finishing games. Some tricks you can use to speed up blob/high model count play:

 

-Have a game plan, develop it while your opponent deploys/is moving/etc. so you don't waste time during turns

-When moving the blobs, measure the outsides, move the models, then just move the insides keeping the same approximate coherency, 99% of players will thank you for this

-I have batches of dice (different colors of small ones) in 20's, and use them to speed up my shooting. FRFSRF can mean rolling 120 ish dice, it's much easier to say "alright, all my dice" or "alright, I need 3 colors, plus 12 others" rather than counting out 70-120 dice every time you fire.

 

Other than that it's just practice, I've played for 14-15 years, and have been playing IG blobs since 6th came out (and Ig for ~5 years), so I've got practice with them. I also play in so many GTs that I rarely get flustered, which does save time when developing plans/making decisions on the fly.

 

BA were a really fun addition and one I'll probably toy with more, I just wish DC jump packs werent so bloody overpriced! I've also toyed with the addition of a pair of blender dreads (1 troop DC, 1 furioso elite), with using mephiston + 2 sanguinary priests for the blobs and a few other options, just haven't decided which way I'll go next yet.

[DAwarrior43]

Hey Andrew this is Philip. (The guy who drove down with Brad) How would you run your dreads? Just slog them across the board? I feel like with the lack of other vehicles they will eat most of the AT fire from the enemy. That scouring mission with hammer and anvil was pretty silly with not being forced to move any of the objectives from your table edge. Making each person deploy at least one in no mans land would have balanced it a bit. (Though I shouldn't really complain since not having to do that won me my game.)

 

Oh yeah, me and Brad will be having some giordanos pizza tomorrow night that we had shipped here. Feel free to come to mn for a slice! ;)

[Zynk Kaladin]

What librarian powers did you decide to take?  I think I can safely assume shield and another Codex power or prescience.  I bet a 50 man guard blob with rerolls to hit is pretty awesome.

 

EDIT:  Also, I think priests only confer FNP and furious charge to Blood Angel units, so unfortunately they would be wasted on the blobs.

[Jolemai]

What librarian powers did you decide to take?  I think I can safely assume shield and another Codex power or prescience.  I bet a 50 man guard blob with rerolls to hit is pretty awesome.

 

You can't take Shield and a BRB power.

 

EDIT:  Also, I think priests only confer FNP and furious charge to Blood Angel units, so unfortunately they would be wasted on the blobs.

 

Correct.