how to defeat helldrake spam

[CheeseWhiz]

Okay, so a buddy of mine recently decided to run an army with three helldrakes and a flying demon prince, he's been blowing his way through most of his games lately tabling the majority. As a vanilla player I've taken on the challenge of taking him down without access to goodies such as broadsides, flakk missiles, or other serious anti-flyer, I'd love some help coming up with a list or ideas to take him down (if this belongs in ultramarines lists and not here I'm sorry mods please move it.) We normally play 2000 points and I'm trying to avoid allies. My initial thoughts was something along the lines of an ADL with an Icarus for the high strength to puncture armor 12, along with a couple autocannon dreadnoughts to pour out shots and a stormtalon to provide some flyer of my own. Does anyone else have any brilliant ideas? maybe put some terminators in my list to counteract his penchant for ap 3 templates? or maybe a landraider or two since aside from the demon prince he doesn't generally have much that can pop armor 14?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

First, understand that no matter what you bring, you can't kill all of it before it gets to you.  Flyers are just too fast for the size of a standard gaming table.

 

Second, bring an ADL or Bastion.  Choice of weapon is up to you: the quad gun gives you a better chance to plink away for hull points, but the Icarus gives a decent one-shot-kill capacity.  If you take the Icarus, though, you absolutely must man it with a BS5 model to ensure a hit.  A MOTF or Telion are your best bets.

 

Third, bring at least two Flyers of your own.  I run two Storm Talons with lascannons, though now that the Raven is available to C:SM, a Raven and a Talon make for a decent mix.  Both can carry assault cannons and both can carry lascannons, which are probably the best anti-Flyer guns in the game (the assault cannons provide weight of fire to penetrate saves and inflict hull points, where the high-strength and low-AP of the las provides a one-shot-kill capacity, and they are all twin-linked).  Plus, if you mix and match, the Talon can Escort the Raven so they both arrive on the table together at the same time.  Also, here's a special bit for the Talon.  As of the Death from the Skies update, the Talon has Strafing Run, which makes it BS5 against anything that is not a Flyer or a Skimmer.  The Daemon Prince, being a Flying Monstrous Creature, is NOT a Flyer.  So have him snipe the DP since he's hitting on a 2+.

 

Now, this will give you a good shoot-down capability for the Heldrakes.  The DP on the other hand requires a little extra touch.  One way or another, the DP will go to the ground -- either because he failed a grounding check or because he's about to assault one of your units.  Either way, the fact that he's not Swooping anymore gives you an advantage.  Always make sure that you've got plenty of plasma at hand to butcher that thing when he's on the ground and out of combat.  You're still wounding on a 2+ and he's stuck with a 5++.  His army will HATE you if you bring a Librarian with Null Zone.  It's not targeting his units -- it's a bubble and a legacy power that is not a Malediction -- so he won't get to Deny the Witch, and it'll reduce the saves for the Drakes and the DP to worthlessness.

[infornography]

Yeah, I would agree with taking the Storm Talon and Storm Raven.  I much prefer the quad gun to the icarus unless you intend to have Tellion in your force already as he is rather expensive.  The Quad gun is reliable without needing really high BS. 

 

I'd be hesitant to use Null Zone that way.  In the spirit of fair play I'd treat it as a malediction since that is clearly what it would be if it were released now.  Denying DTW because of a rules technicality like that just seems low.

Going for rear armor shots on those drakes will take them down quick though.  Both the talon and raven  have the ability to take swiveling assault cannons which tear up AV10.  If you carefully position yourself, you should be able to zoom past them and damage that rear armor.

Metal bawkses are a good solution as well.  If he is running with the template weapon keep your marines in rhinos and razors until they are dealt with if at all possible. 

 

The DP can be brought down with a single S10 hit or by weight of firepower.  Either way grounding him will make him vulnerable.  Also if you have a librarian with enfeeble you can instant death the prince with S8.  The multimelta on the raven can do the deed with minimal effort in that case.

[Giga]

A skyhammer missile stormtalon + a stormraven with tl-lascannon/tl-multimelta + an aegis defense line with a quad-gun, are all nice things to have in a list. If you run a null zone librarian (always a good HQ choice), you can really go a long way towards hurting those helldrakes, while still having a lot of points left for the ground stuff.

 

But as people have said, you'll have to accept that helldrakes will kill stuff on the turn they show up, so plan accordingly. Keep your 3+ guys inside transports, spread out your vehicles so a single torrent flamer can't hit more than one of them etc.

[Muctar]

Most things have already been mentioned:

Librarian with Null Zone

Tacticals inside rhinos (one can go into the Stormraven with a Captain, see below)

Stormtalon (I like the TLLC)

Stormraven (TLMM, TLLC or TLAC)

ADL with quad gun or icarus (not as big a fan because you're required to expose your marines, but it has its merits, like Interceptor)

 

I'll also advocate a quad plasmagun Command Squad, in a razorback. A Captain is required to unlock it, but the squad will deal with the DP once he's grounded. This is especially true is the libby is within 24". In the meantime the captain can join a tactical squad in the Stormraven to support their efforts to take a far-flung objective, after the Stormraven helps clear out the drakes.

[CheeseWhiz]

all great ideas guys, thanks I've got a game against him this weekend and I plan on proxying a storm raven to test the theory, as well as a MotF with some servitors manning an icarus lascannon with some rifleman dreads, I figure this way I have a bs 5 tl lascannon, and if necessary he can run over repair a hull point on a dreadnought while a servitor blasts away with the gun. I'll update with what I've found as well as strategies that worked/didn't work

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The Icarus isn't twinlinked, and a servitor is only BS3. . .

[CheeseWhiz]

I figured it would only be under extreme circumstances to keep a dreadnought alive that the MotF would leave the gun, or if it was fired in interceptor mode he could repair, basically if I had the choice between alive dreadnought and bs 3 lascannon for the turn or dead dreadnought and bs 5, situation depending of course, i'm leaning towards the former.

[IndigoJack]

A storm raven with lascannon and multi-melta goes a long way towards keeping the skies clear. A couple rifledreads can be used for back up AA. I've found it works best if I hide in my vehicles until I've taken care of the heldrake to try and minimize casualties.

[IK Viper]

This is a thread from the BA forum but it has alot of thoughts on fighting the Chaos Cash Cow (I mean Helldrake) 

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273363-hellturkey-plucking-their-feathers/