Anyone had luck with a drop pod BA army?

[nevaenuffbass]

So before I spend hard earned cash on some drop pods to re-vitalise my blood angels, thought I'd see if anyone else had done similar, and if so, any advice. 

 

In my local gaming scene one guy takes a space wolf drop pod army and normally podium finishes. Mostly wolf guard and grey hunters (with wolf guard in termi armour attached), i think with a unit of long fangs. Made me think, with our cheap(ish) pods we might be able to do something similar. 

 

Concept of the army is that I can fit 9 pods in 2000 pts, so 5 will be in enemy lines on turn one, usually with a decent alpha strike. All units need to have a decent alpha. The second wave are minimum assault squads, for scoring late game, or kitted so they pose a reasonable threat on their own. 

 

Listed by pods (2000pts):

 

1. 7 Sternguard, all with combi-plasma, priest, librarian in terminator armour, blood lance, shield of sang. Pod has a homing beacon

 

2. 8 death company, bolters, 1 power fist. Reclusiarch in power armour. 

 

3. 7 assault marines, SGT has 2 infernus pistols, meltagun in squad, corbulo, locator beacon on pod

 

4. 10 tactical marines, plasma gun, combi-plasma

 

5. Furioso, frag cannon, heavy flamer

 

6. 5 man assault squad, 2 hand flamers, flamer

 

7. 5 man assault squad, 2 hand flamers, flamer

 

8. 5 man assault squad, meltagun, infernus pistol

 

9. 5 man assault squad, meltagun, infernus pistol

 

NB- double force org chart - 2 HQ, 7 troops. 

 

If I do this project, I am hoping it will be competitive in tournaments. It'd be nice to win with BA, given they are so rarely taken in 6th now. 

 

Any advice, comments welcome. 

 

[knife&fork]

You only have one fragioso? Don't put the priest and librarian in the high value squads, make your opponents target priority a little more difficult. 

 

NIce mix of units but I personally think it's better to have some things on table unless your mind is set on a null deploy. 

[ASSASSINAWOKEN]

I agree with knifeandfork (name is awesome) 9 drop pods might be a bit much. Considering squads five through nine are held in reserve what is to say you get something podded in your deployment zone turn one, two, and on. If those assault squads fail to destroy something they can easily be assaulted in return.

 

At 2,000 points a second frag armed Furioso is perfect. You can use scare tactics depending upon your opponents deployment and reserves. You can drop both on turn one or leave one in reserve to cause major havoc afterwards.

 

Try dropping down to maybe six drop pods for an even number or even five as then you still get three dropped on first turn. You want something on the table using long range weapons to support your drop units. Remember you might roll bad sometimes and the dropped unit is left at the mercy on enemy firepower and assaults.

 

I also agree to be careful bundling all your characters up front. Bad rolls/bad drops and you just handed over slay the warlord.

 

Your idea is interesting so lets here your thoughts.

[Brother Maikel]

You don't necessarily have to reserve everything, even if it has a pod.  One thing you might consider is a 5-man devastator squad... you can deploy it (with your librarian warlord?) in the backfield or pod it into an inconvenient position (for your opponent) depending on opponent, terrain, and deployment.

[nevaenuffbass]

Thanks guys for your thoughts.

 

My thinking behind the libby and priest with the sternguard was because they are a high value target - fnp, shield and the 2+ save character at the front to make them more survivable. Having said that, your points are valid, and both of fnp and shield can work without the characters in the unit, just nearby. 

 

The evolution of the idea started with a part-pod list, with vindicators and baals starting on the table, and possibly a raven in reserve. I found the tanks way to fragile, and didn't have enough troops. The idea then changed into 40 or so marines with fnp, and some of the shield in the enemy deployment zone turn one. In a split list this is much harder to achieve, and i think i am shy of 40 marines for the inclusion of the frag furioso - which I suppose answers the "why not 2 fragiosos".  Also, having something like a single dev squad on the table makes them fragile if they are the only thing on the table and  the enemy gets turn one. 

 

I am explaining my reasoning rather than disagreeing - you have given my much to consider. 

 

The list is victim to scatter, and will struggle to certain opponents (grey knights & their strike knights, anything that can bubble wrap really well). I am a little worried about flyers, and petrified of the new riptide (interceptor and AP2 pie plate)

[Rommel44]

Although I am still new to BA's, I have liked the idea of running an army with mostly Assault Marines, however I would also include 3x drop pods in my army, and in them I would place: 1x Squad of Death Company, and 2x Furioso Dread's in drop pods to go along with a squad of Vanguard Vets.. Not sure how effective this would be, however the plan is to use a hammer and anvil tactic: Drop pods come in and put the pressure on my opponent, giving my Assault Squads time to move up into Assault range. Now, this tactic I beleive would also prove very effective with the Space Marine Codex, as I take Pedro as my HQ and fill them with Sternguard or take Shrike to give my whole army fleet, however BA can take Assault Marines as troops, which is why I hope this will make this tacttic more effective.

[nevaenuffbass]

Hi mate, 

 

The issue I see is being "in the face" of the enemy fast enough. If you take 3 pods, 2 will drop, one of them will be the DC so you can get a turn 2 assault. They will prob ignore most of your jumper marines and deal with them. Based on my experience, DC in a drop pod die like any other marine when the focus of fire. 

 

Hence, you may be better off dropping in less valuable targets (plain assault marines for example) almost as a sacrificial unit - gunslinger and 2 special weapons in the squad make them pretty good at taking something down with them, and the locator beacon will be handy if you want to follow up with vanguard vets or a frag dread. 

 

Alternatively, the approach I have taken is having more drop down on turn one that the en can deal with, and forcing tough decisions, hence the advice from otehr posters not to put my tough characters in with my sternguard, as both are ideal targets for en. 

 

SM codex is awesome for sternguard as you say. Space wolf dex is also handy for cheap grey hunters led by wolf guard in terminator armour. 

 

Librarian's shield, and priests fnp can both help the dropped marines live longer as well. 

[Rommel44]

Hi mate, 

 

The issue I see is being "in the face" of the enemy fast enough. If you take 3 pods, 2 will drop, one of them will be the DC so you can get a turn 2 assault. They will prob ignore most of your jumper marines and deal with them. Based on my experience, DC in a drop pod die like any other marine when the focus of fire. 

 

Hence, you may be better off dropping in less valuable targets (plain assault marines for example) almost as a sacrificial unit - gunslinger and 2 special weapons in the squad make them pretty good at taking something down with them, and the locator beacon will be handy if you want to follow up with vanguard vets or a frag dread. 

 

Alternatively, the approach I have taken is having more drop down on turn one that the en can deal with, and forcing tough decisions, hence the advice from otehr posters not to put my tough characters in with my sternguard, as both are ideal targets for en. 

 

SM codex is awesome for sternguard as you say. Space wolf dex is also handy for cheap grey hunters led by wolf guard in terminator armour. 

 

Librarian's shield, and priests fnp can both help the dropped marines live longer as well. 

 

Fair point, however reason I brought this idea up is that I have seen a list very similar to this one amd it has performed very well against many opponents. DC are a lot more resilient then the standard Marines, as they get FNP for free and can be nasty on the charge with so many attacks, and with the Furiosos being front armor 13, they can shrug off a lot of shots coming there way. Granted itsa risk with so few Drop Pods, however most of the time, the Assault Squads are able to get in close and even getting a solid charge off by turn 2 in some games, and though the DC are an expensive unit, they give me the best chance of taking as many shots as possible and staying around unitil my other units are able to pile on in. Also, Vanguard Vets are a nice idea, however Im not sure how well they would fit in this list overal. Granted they could come in close to the enemy thanks to the Locator Beacons on ths Drop Pods, but I wonder if points could be better spent elsewhere.

[Father Mapple]

I would drop Blood Lance and use Prescience or BRB powers on your Libby. If you get a 4+ invul, or reroll armor saves on enemy, that's going to help potentially even more than rerolling hits on that first turn drop. But using a witchfire which gives Deny the Witch, etc., might not be as good. 

Rerolling to-hits means (almost) no one gets lost to a plasma shot either. And if you get assaulted, all those A2 profiles reroll their hits anyways in combat. Not bad.
 

[Father Mapple]

In fact, I did some math. This might be better if you don't mind ally-ing Space Wolves for some bolter marines that could sit further back on some midfield objectives, or be great wrap around more important drop pods with the counter-attack and wolf standard, etc. 

 

BA Librarian

Furioso Dread + Drop Pod (DP) + frag cannon + heavy flamer

Brother Corbulo (for tanking whatever unit you want)

9 Sternguard + 4 Combi-Weapon + DP

8 Death Co + Bolters + DP

8 Assault Marines + Flamer + 2 Hand Flamers (HF) + DP

5 Assault Marines + Flamer + 2 HF + DP

5 Assault Marines + Flamer + 2 HF + DP

5 Assault Marines + Flamer + 2 HF + DP

 

Allies:

Rune Priest - stock

Rune Priest - same as above

9 Grey Hunters + flamer + Wolf Standard + DP

9 Grey Hunters + flamer + Wolf Standard + DP

 

This makes for 1972 total, so you can add some flavor as you want. More combi weapons, infernus instead of flamers, etc.

 

Idea is the Rune Priests go in with the Grey Hunters in their respective DPs. They can spread your 24" radius 4+ cancel-Psyker ability. Plus, Grey Hunters being Grey Hunters, they're great with bolters and CCWs, counter-Attack, etc.

 

Librarian and Corbulo go in different pods, probably Corbulo in the Sternguard. That's what the one pod of 9 Assault marines is for, extra wounds for the other IC. Unless scatter is just HORRENDOUS then they'll be in range to benefit each other after a disembark. Remember, you can also do things like put two pods spaced out from each other, and use those as "limits" on the outside with the enemy being a limit for the third direction and subsequent DPs if you want to target them better.

 

I'd drop down, on turn 1, Fragioso, Death Company, Sternguard, other full Assault Squad, then at least 1 of the Grey Hunter + Rune Priests. Then the enemy has to think: Walker, crazy DC, Sternguard special ammo, a full assault/scoring/warlord squad, or psyker defense: which are they going after?

 

Also, this allows you 7 troops in a sub 2000 point game. So if you don't have the benefit of 2x force org, you can use 5 of your normal force org, and 2 from your allies, to get 7. Same as your original list, but a bit more flexible in the roles of the troops. Shoot... you could drop one rune priest, add the missing grey hunter and special weapon, and drop Corbulo down to a normal priest with power weapon, and you have a 1850 list as well. 

The more I edit this post, the more I want to go and buy 6 more drop pods!

 

Hope this helps. Didn't see any "No allies" discussion above.

 

EDIT: forgot to write down the GH have DPs too, and include totals. Then I made the 7th scorers point. This post was a complete work in progress. D'oh!

[Morticon]

Ive had great success with a triple Fragioso pod list.  Only thing that deploys is Mephy.  

Check it out in the list building forum. Theres a lot of discussion and development of that list with some great help from the board.  

[Alyssis]

How do you do against tank heavy, or terminator heavy lists Morticon? Do you have any luck with fragiosos then?

[nevaenuffbass]

Thanks for your replies guys. 

 

I have come to the conclusion since reading Mort's long list building thread, that space wolf allies for the grey hunters are well worth it. I also considered taking wolf guard with combi weapons instead of sternguard as they are so much cheaper. Hadn't considered 2 rune priests. Just wanted one for jaws (lots of MCs, and they are hard to deal with).

 

I've never actually used Meph. I should really give him a go. 

 

Other option is a "pod" of grey hunters / devastator marines as well, who send in an empty pod in the second wave. 

 

A question Mort - do you miss the FNP by taking SW allies? And I was thinking wolf guard in terminator armour to join the grey hunter squads, maybe even with storm shields? 

 

I have also been considering a small (3) unit of scout bikes for teh locator beacon, and have a seperate thread on that.

 

Hopefully get to do some play testing.

[knife&fork]

Thanks for your replies guys. 

 

I have come to the conclusion since reading Mort's long list building thread, that space wolf allies for the grey hunters are well worth it. I also considered taking wolf guard with combi weapons instead of sternguard as they are so much cheaper. Hadn't considered 2 rune priests. Just wanted one for jaws (lots of MCs, and they are hard to deal with).

 

The hardest MCs for us to deal with are those that usually fly. Can't count on the runepriest to help you with those. 

[Morticon]

Thanks for your replies guys. 

 

 

 

A question Mort - do you miss the FNP by taking SW allies? And I was thinking wolf guard in terminator armour to join the grey hunter squads, maybe even with storm shields? 

 

Defs miss FNP, but for what the SW lose in resiliency they make up in everything else.  The WGT also helps tank a lot.  I wouldnt bother with storm shields, on account of making that model too expensive, but if you have the points, defs throw in a WG with Termy armour.  FNP can still be accessed for some of your guys depending on points level etc, but as ive said to other people, BA seem to have excellent elite options and average scoring troops- FNP helps that out a bit, but still increases their base cost.  So, unless you're playing at least 3 squads to benefit from it, it can get pricey.  Corbulo however is such a great unit to include, so it does guide your list build towards having at least 3 units to benefit -maybe Stern and 2x Troops, or Vanguard and Troops etc.

[trukkster]

I have had great success with running Drop pods.

List:

Librarian w/ jp

Sang priest w/jump pack power sword

Furioso dread w/ H. flamer + pod

Furioso dread w/ H. flamer + pod

Assault squad (10 man) jump packs, 2xmeltagun, power sword 

Assault squad (10 man) jump packs, 2xmeltagun, infernus pistol/bolt pistol (gunslinger)

tactical squad (10 man) meltagun, missile launcher, combi melta + drop pod

Attack bike w/melta

Attack bike w/melta

Attack bike w/melta

Storm raven hurricane bolters, multimelta, assault cannon, bloodstrike missiles

Devastator squad (5 man) missile launchers, power sword

I combat squad the 2^nd assault squad and keep one half in reserve for late objective scoring leaving the other one with 2 meltaguns and the sgt to go tank/MC hunting.

The three bikes are kept separate, which most will disagree on, but I do it this way to create a lot more redundancy, losing one model to a lot of fire, and the ability to hunt up to three tanks a turn.

The 1^st assault squad is kept as one unit with the libby and priest thrown in, giving me a decent blob to scare people with.

The rest is all down to do with enemy deployment, and what the objectives are. 

For instance, if there is an Aegis defence line with a quad gun, I’ll be sending in my 2 furiosos first to deal with that threat, whilst my squad moves up and his castle is having to deal with 2 AV13 killers and 2 LOS blocking pods.   Otherwise I’ll drop the tactical squad to hold midfield objectives or take down weaker units.  They are also very capable tank hunters.

 

[nevaenuffbass]

Hey all, 

 

I have had three games with my army, against three highly ranked (we have a ranking system in our tournament scene here) players since starting the list. I have had three wins, two easy and one close one. Not getting cocky, as I know there are lists out there that will be super hard for this one to manage - grey knights with coteaz and strike knioghts (deep strike disruption), tau with lots of interceptor and a guard blob. 

 

My musings regarding changes are relatively minor. 

 

1. Librarian build -  in three games, 0 saves with his armour. Probably not worth the terminator upgrade. Possibly worth making him the warlord. I have also tried both diviination and codex powers. TBH neither have been that effective. I'm inclined to go with divination, as prescience on the sternguard drop can be the difference between an okay alpha and a good one. 

 

2. Sternguard load-out. half plasma / half melta I guess. The question though is whether or not to have 2 melta guns in there or not. As is always the way I guess, in the game I took 2 meltas, I missed the 4 rounds of special ammo, and in last night's game, I really needed the melta.

 

Some general comments:

 

Morticon has recommended grey hunters/ rune priest. The reason I haven't run this is because I don't have the models (yet). But I am not sure I want to - the 5 man assault squads with twin pistol/matching special have been pretty handy for their cost. Yeah, sure the same can be done with grey hunter/ wolf guard. But there is a part of me that wants to do well with a pure BA list just to show that it can still be done. 

 

Corbulo is the bomb. So many things that are hard to deal with are easily dealt with by Mr. Corbs. If you haven't taken him before, take him. 

 

Also surprised by the "naked" reclusiarch, as in previous lists I have paid more for him. I only have him rather than a chappy to open up double force org, but he also hasn't died yet. His 4+ invuln is pretty sweet, and the power maul is an under-rated bit of kit - causes more wounds with the higher strength, forcing more saves, and pretty good when assaulting vehicles (like those necrton barge dooveys with AV11 rear).

 

Mobility isn't the issue I thought it was. Placing objectives close together and in enemy deployment zone means that the initial drop and most the combat occurs around half the objectives - I have ignored the others. No FA /  Heavy choices also means that in 2/6 missions there are more kill points available for me than the enemy.

 

Flyers - my mate won a recent tournament with no flyers and no dedicated anti-air, so I was anticipating that I might not be that perturbed by it. And this has been the case. I am still shaking in my boots at the thought of a heldrake, but against 4 necron flyers, I was safe just ignoring them. Sure I took some casualties, but I also outnumbered him on the first turn drop, so he had only his HQ  and a base of scarabs on the table at the start of turn 2 before his flyers arrived. 

 

Thanks for reading - I'll keep updating regarding my progress. 

[SamaNagol]

You cannot cast Prescience on a unit coming in from reserve.

 

The issue with using Assault Marines in a pod, rather than Grey Hunters, is after they have dropped they are functionally useless. Poor range, average in combat, poor survivability, poor mobility. 

[knife&fork]

You cannot cast Prescience on a unit coming in from reserve.

 

Now you can. Unlike 5th there's is nothing in 6th that specify exactly when reserves are deployed. As long the librarian in question starts on the table he can cast prescience on a unit arriving from reserves.

 

This was clarified by GW in the last batch of FAQs. 

[StJude]

No it wasn't.

 

The Psyker on the table casts the power at the beginning of the movement phase. The drop pod is placed on the table and the unit disembarks moving 6"

 

On p. 124 of the BRB.

 

 

 

When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto

the table from the controlling player's own table edge

(maps and diagrams illustrating table edges for the different

deployment methods are shown on page 119). Models that are

arriving by Deep strike or Outflank deploy using their special

rules (see pages 36 and 40)

 

At this point, you are IN the movement phase and past the point that prescience can be cast

[knife&fork]

If you have several things happening at the same point the controlling player chooses the order. It's the same thing with assaults.

[nevaenuffbass]

If you have several things happening at the same point the controlling player chooses the order. It's the same thing with assaults.

 

 

THIS ^^ is how we played it, and apparently the ruling at local tournaments. So a blessing can be cast from a librarian in a drop pod, on troops landing in another drop pod. 

 

If I am wrong, anyone have advice for psychic powers for the libby? (Other than blood lance / shield of sang)

[knife&fork]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't think you can use a power with a psyker that doesn't start on the table.

 

I recalled the wording wrong. This is how it breaks down:

 

You roll for reserve at the start of your turn, not the start of your movement phase.

The first thing that happens in your movement phase is that all units arriving by reserves complete their move, and there are no sub-phases in the movement phase.

Ergo, barring special cases like coteaz no units can act in the movement phase until all reserves has been deployed.

[Alyssis]

If you look at page 125, it says that you cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn. Maybe its a poor choice of words, and they should have said start of the movement phase, but it opens up for different opinions..

Im pretty sure its intended that you are not to be able to cast blessings when you arrive from reserves, but i would love to be able to, since i want my precience libby with my sternguards..

As for casting a blessing or using psychic powers on a unit from reserves, whilst you have the libby on the table.. well..

The order of things at the start of the turn is:
1. Roll for reserves, roll for (and choose) where they arrive if outflanking.
2. Cast psychic powers at the start of the movement phase.
3. Pick available reserves and deploy them, and roll for scatter if deep striking.
4. Move units as normal.

 

[SamaNagol]

You roll for reserves being available at the start if the movement phase. You do not make their moves at the start of the movement phase. So they are not on the board at the start of the movement phase, ergo they cannot be target by nor can any arriving pyskers cast any blessings or maledictions.

 

Once you place your available reserve units on the table that is the normal movement phase. Not the start of it.