Kill Team Horrors Question

[GenEngineer]

Question for everyone, does anyone know how Pink Horrors of Tzeentch function w/ respect to the Kill Team rules? The brotherhood of sorcerers rule only allows one of them to shoot for the unit, so does that really mean that in Kill Team Horrors are worthless? Tell me it isn't so an there's something I'm missing.

[EricBasser]

Pretty sure you've got it. Not entirely useless. The boards smaller, so range seems pretty good. Could always just jump where the power is each turn. Other horrors can go to ground in ruins for a 2++ rerolling 1s.

 

How many points in the Kill Team game?

[Hellios]

Question for everyone, does anyone know how Pink Horrors of Tzeentch function w/ respect to the Kill Team rules? The brotherhood of sorcerers rule only allows one of them to shoot for the unit, so does that really mean that in Kill Team Horrors are worthless? Tell me it isn't so an there's something I'm missing.

 

I believe (and this is why 40K KT needs lots of house rules) that each model becomes its own unit.

 

So I would rule that(and I could be wrong), each horror becomes a unit in its own right, and as a unit of horror(s) it has the brotherhood of sorcerers rule. This basically means all of the Horrors will be level 1 psykers (Because they act individually a single horror will never be able to generate 2 or 3 warp charge a turn). Unless I've missed something that says brotherhood of sorcerers lose the ability to generate a warp charge once they have been reduced to a single model.

 

--EDIT--

 

You can spam 20 or so psykers if you wish.

[EricBasser]

In KT can you keep models together?

[GenEngineer]

So Horror's are either fairly bad in Kill Team or are broken, depending on how you're local club rules (I would love 40d6 S5 Ap4 shots in 200 pt kill team, thank you very much).

[Hellios]

So Horror's are either fairly bad in Kill Team or are broken, depending on how you're local club rules (I would love 40d6 S5 Ap4 shots in 200 pt kill team, thank you very much).

You might want to roll for some other powers if someone takes a vehicle

If I'm right Horrors are pretty broken as far as RAW goes at the moment.

Technically speaking, if you took a rhino and a tactical squad in KT, only one tactical marine could get into the rhino at a time. As each model is a unit. This is one of a number of rules that has been given house rules where I play.

@ EricBasser

You can keep your models together, but they will not act as a single unit. For example: I have a character who grants stealth to his squad. I can run the entire squad together (keeping 2 inch coherency), but as they count as individual units they would not get the stealth rule from the character. If someone had The Doom of Malantai (sp? Tyranid special character) each individual model would take a leadership test and suffer wounds individually, rather than the squad taking one leadership test and suffering from the wounds as a group.

[EricBasser]

OK. I was going to say, if they are purchased as a single unit, but then "combat squadded" out during the game and psychic powers are rolled before game, would one model only get a psychic power?

 

Could always ask on Grey Knights forum. They should know. This rule is fairly new to daemons players, but they have had their codex for a while now.

[Cheex]

Kill Team simply doesn't work with the Brotherhood of Psykers rule. As already mentioned, it either makes them worthless or ridiculously overpowered.

 

Personally, I'd lean towards dropping the Brotherhood rule and making their power Assault 1 instead.

[Black_Crusader]

Or you could simply say:

My squad of 10 horrors i just bought choose their power.

Then for as long as 1 horror of the given unit is still alive you roll the test and then choose any one horror to be able to fire.

If the horror squad was 20 models then you can make the test and expend 3 warp charges as normal and fire from a single horror.

It does give the great benefit to the horrors that they can fire from anywhere there is at least one horror but not entirly broken or useless.

You should also have a way to separate the horrors belonging to different units in order to figure the warp charges available.

[GenEngineer]

Jumping the fireing man around sounds good in theory, but if you consider the fact that all the shooting on one guy only equals at most one kill a turn, it still turns into fairly worthless as that would be all the Horrors can do. I do like what Cheexsta said though; ruling all horrors as having te shot but at Assault one works for me. Or perhaps roll for number of shots as normal, then split up amongst models as you like?

[Black_Crusader]

I thought shooting attacks can be split to different targets in kill team.

like two bolter rounds from the same guy to different models.

At least that is how i remembered it, could be thinking of old rules though.

Page 91 of the old kill team rules on battle missions say you can split your shoots to eligible targets. (don't know if that changed)

[Nusquam]

The Kill Team FAQ about Brotherhood of Psykers just makes them each have that power. It references Grey Knights powers as examples. So each horror can shoot 2d6 S5 shots at 24".

 

Now keep in mind this came out before the new Daemons codex where things like that didn't happen.

[Cheex]

 

The Kill Team FAQ about Brotherhood of Psykers just makes them each have that power. It references Grey Knights powers as examples. So each horror can shoot 2d6 S5 shots at 24".

 

Now keep in mind this came out before the new Daemons codex where things like that didn't happen.

What Kill Team FAQ? I don't recall any FAQ for the Battle Missions book.

[Nusquam]

Ahh, it was for an event last year, my bad. I tried to pull it up and couldn't, 404'd. Still, as each model is it's own unit, each is a psyker and has warp charge and access to the power. By logic it also works. Again, this Codex is post recent Kill Team events and rules.

[Cheex]

Ahh, it was for an event last year, my bad. I tried to pull it up and couldn't, 404'd. Still, as each model is it's own unit, each is a psyker and has warp charge and access to the power. By logic it also works. Again, this Codex is post recent Kill Team events and rules.

Ah, that makes sense. And yeah, the RAW is pretty clear - though having a single 9-point model put out 2D6 S5 shots is way OTT for such a small game. Like you say, the codex simply isn't designed to work with Kill Team, which is why I think it's best if you simply drop the number of shots the psychic power puts out.

[Nusquam]

"Combat Patrol" might be the wave of the future now. I like the rules more than Kill-Team, personally.

[Marius Corsican]

Maybe you house rule it so each model get d3 hits instead of 2d6.  That seems reasonable because you still need to role all the pyschic tests and deny the witch rolls for each model.  Anybody else think that's fair?

[Nusquam]

Maybe you house rule it so each model get d3 hits instead of 2d6.  That seems reasonable because you still need to role all the pyschic tests and deny the witch rolls for each model.  Anybody else think that's fair?

 

Not bad, I was thinking more along the lines that for "Brotherhood of Psykers" related rules they still act as a single unit. So one horror would do all the shooting, and perils would randomly remove one.

 

I would say test either way. Thinking about it as I type, d3 might be the best for consistency where as treating as one unit for 2d6 would be more random. Average it is only 7 shots but crazy thing shappen. But hey, chaos.

[Black_Crusader]

Maybe you house rule it so each model get d3 hits instead of 2d6.  That seems reasonable because you still need to role all the pyschic tests and deny the witch rolls for each model.  Anybody else think that's fair?

I think an entire unit casting spells will be a big problem for the horrors and give them a big handicap. On top of your to hit roll you risk perils and fail to cast on 11, 12 for every single model.

 

A single horror doing the shooting will be the most appropriate i think. remember that you can split your shoots to different targets so you are not only hitting one enemy model 

[Cheex]

The only problem with that is you would be able to draw range/LOS from any horror on the battlefield, which is still pretty damn good. Plus, it causes issues with determining which model is in which squad if you have more than one.

 

I do like the Assault D3 option, though.

[Nusquam]

Still, (correct my math if its wrong, it is 2am right now)with assault 1d3 it's an average of around 20 shots with a possibility of up to 30 at 10 models, 45 at 15 and 60 at 20. Looking back at the standard unit it is a max of 12(2d6) at ten, 18(3d6) at 15 and 24(4d6) at 20. The average is higher for less points(20 at 1d3 per model vs 7 at 2d6 per original unit). It is still only BS3 with odds of rolling low. I think that them treated as a single unit for a Brotherhood shooting attack might be best. You can still draw LoS and such from individual models in non KT anyway. So for BoP regarding buffs and such its each mode is a unit where as shooting its treated as the whole original unit for that one shooting attack. Still being able to split up shots and such. That way you get closer to what you pay for. I know KT changes meta and makes some units better others worse etc, but this method keeps them closer to their original state. 2d6 per-model can push the envelope, and 1d3 skews the curve noticeably. BS3 is offset by S5 and with a bonus of AP4.

 

Even all that being said I would like to see the 1d3 tried and the "One Unit for the sake of shooting purposes only" method as well.

[Black_Crusader]

The only problem with that is you would be able to draw range/LOS from any horror on the battlefield, which is still pretty damn good. Plus, it causes issues with determining which model is in which squad if you have more than one.

 

Still, every horror will have a limitted LOS against a lot of enemy targets. So you might and up wasting shoots since all shoots must come from the same horror.

It does give the great benefit of snipping specific targets with lots of shoots though. Playtesting is the best option i guess, as always.