A place for scout bikers - drop pod lists?

[nevaenuffbass]

To start, 2 things -

1. I was reading a very insightful and long thread on a null deployment list, that I was really enjoying, and can't find it now. It went for 5 or 6 pages, and I am wondering if it could be pinned or condensed into a tactica article (and then pinned)? 

 

2. I realise that scout bikers are the inbred cousins of the astartes that never get invited to family BBQs... 

 

 

Now I am going to mix these two points

 

Do you think that there is a place for scout bikers in a (almost) null deployment list? By null deployment, I mean a list where everything is in a drop pod - looking at 7-9 pods in 2000pts)

 

My reasoning in several points of descending significance

1. If you get first turn, infiltrate and then scout, drop pod doesn't scatter and you have 6" from the SGT another few inches for the length of the pod and then 6" to disembark safely in the face of the enemy

2. There are not any fast units inside pods, making contesting objectives difficult - scout bikers offer that (but as inbred cousins will never be troops and able to score)

3. 6 x templates adds to the alpha strike if you pay the points for grenade launchers

4. If you go second, they can either outflank, or you can try and hide them to protect them, or pull the enemy out of their castle (but probably concede first blood)

5. Everyone seems to love their aegis defence line. The cheap cluster mines could potentially hurt a soft target.

6. SGT with melta bombs is a cheap and reasonable anti-vehicle weapon. 

 

Keen to hear your thoughts. 

[Taranis]

The post you're describing sounds like Mort's in the armylist section.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271045-1750-null-deploy-almost-competitive-list/page-5?do=findComment&comment=3348920

 

As for scout bikes I haven't done much thinking. :(

I'll try and get back when I've gathered myself an opinion. :)

[Calnus]

Couple of things--As I read it, mines are only for area terrain, which the Aegis line is not.  Would have been a fun application right there if it had been though...

 

Second, every point spent on bikers is a point not spent on another drop pod.  And when you're doing a null deployment, you have to go big or just get eaten piecemeal.  I think oppurtunity cost is going to be the big kicker here.  If I drop ~200pts on scout bikers (call it a couple units with an upgrade or two), thats a unit in a drop pod to give me one more for the alpha strike.

[Xenith]

The main flaw that I see with this is that drop pods have their own systems to reduce scatter, and stuff coming out of pods can only shoot anyway, so the max range of 12" is not too important.

[Disruptor_fe404]

How many bikes are you talking about, and what happens to them if your opponent successfully seizes the initiative?

[nevaenuffbass]

I was thinking a min bike squad - 100pts or thereabouts. 130ish with the grenades. And yes, it still means one less pod.... but..... it also means that the pods that arrive don't scatter, at least some of them. And the scatter is important imho, as so many of the BA weapons have short range - flamer templates of the furioso, melta / infernus pistols, rapid fire range on bolters and plasma guns. 

 

In terms of the loss of a pod - would this be mitigated by the 6 grenades - lower strength yes, but still not a bad potential damage output, especially against something like a guard blob.

 

If they sieze the inititiave, we have given them first blood and put ourselves 100pts down. That's the risk we take I guess. 

 

So, I guess the question for Mortis and anyone else who has experience with the null deployment list - how bad is that initial scatter? In my 2000pt null deployment list I have 9 pods, so 5 in the first wave - how many would you reasonably expect to deviate? In the one game I have had, 2 were in poor positions, but it was only an issue for one of them (DC dread w melta / magna couldn't shoot at an enemy). 

 

The other application is for grey knights and the strike knights (I think)'s power to auto-mishap deep striking units. Although only really applicable if you get second turn, where they also becoem harder to use. 

[knife&fork]

I'm pretty sure you can only take 2 launchers per squad, so that's 4 grenades, 5 if you throw one with the sarge. 

 

I definitely think our scout bikers can be useful. I've used them in a couple of games and they did ok even if I didn't get to use all the tricks I had planned with them.