Deathwing Vs Grey Knights

[Dark_Dell]

Ok so my buddy and I will be playing a 1500 pont game tonight and my list is as follows

 

Belial-190

TH/SS

 

Deathwing Command Squad-315

Champ with Hal of Caliban

Apoth(willing to drop)

Deathwing Standard

Plasma cannon

 

5 man Deathwing Terminator Squad- 240

Assault Cannon

 

5 man Deathwing Terminator Squad- 235

Plasma Cannon

 

Deathwing Knights-235(willing to make something else)

 

Land Raider Crusader-290

melta

Deathwing

 

 

Ok so i went with this for now, it feels like im lacking feet on the ground a lot i know i will always be out numbered and it comes down to dice rolls and tactics.  My opponent goes very troop heavy no paladins thank god might take a dreadknight but i dunno.  My plan is stick the deathwing knights in the crusader throw down a terminator squad in deployment and deep strike the rest on his weakest flank and pray i kill a lot on my deep strike turn with the VS rules.  i chose plasmas because i would rather not give him even a chance for a save and could kill clusters if places his units close. (which happens).  I could get rid of the apothocary but i feel like even if he saves just 1 guy he paid for not having the power fist attack.  anyway let me know what you guys think and i appriciate any constructive critisim.

[marvmoogy]

Although they all have power / force weapons, GKs are a really shooty army....maybe even more so than ours.  I wouldn't worry too much about being outnumbered....it's probably one of the only armys we can face where, if we're clever, we can do the out numbering!

 

The problem you'll have is with psychic abilities.  If you plan the army right, you should be able to out range them fairly easily, but watch out for their invulnerable saves

[IndigoJack]

Although they all have power / force weapons, GKs are a really shooty army....maybe even more so than ours.  I wouldn't worry too much about being outnumbered....it's probably one of the only armys we can face where, if we're clever, we can do the out numbering!

 

The problem you'll have is with psychic abilities.  If you plan the army right, you should be able to out range them fairly easily, but watch out for their invulnerable saves

 

If he's not playing a paladin army, they'll easily out number DW. Additionally, almost every GK ranged weapon is 24", just like most of the DWs. You won't outrange them either. Outside of a few units, most don't have invul saves.

 

I think GKs are one of the DWs hardest match ups. 3 squads of strikes can cover most their deployment zone. If they get warp quake off, deep striking is going to be impossible inside 12". After that, they'll just gun you down. At the adepticon TT, my partner and I gunned down 3 units of DW in 2 turns, leaving only the apothecary and Belial. Also, psycannons will do a good job of stripping hullpoints off of a land raider.

 

All that being said, marvmoogy has the right idea; overwhelm a flank. If they've spread out, they're going to be weak on the flanks. Use the LRC to block LoS, and keep Belial inside ]with whatever unit he's attacked to. Use his homer to accurately deepstrike outside the range of warp quake, and start gunning them down. The sooner you make it into combat, the better. As far as dreadknights go, TH/SS do a good job of smashing them, and I'll bet DWK in smite mode will crush one as well.

[shortysl]

Good luck is all I can think to say. I play Grey Knights as well as Dark Angels and they're trouble. What I will say is that they lack much in the way of AP2 in melee, unless he loads up on Nemesis Hammers. If he does that, he'll be striking at Initiative 1. However, a lot of what has been said about ranged attacks is true; most of their ranged attacks come in at 24" or less. Psycannons are just Assault Cannons with an extra pip of Strength and if your opponent equips Power Armoured units with them, he'll have to remain stationary to fire at full effect, thus limiting his own mobility. Force weapons aren't an issue except for Belial, as he's your only multi-wound model, but Hammerhand does grant them an extra point of strength in melee subject to a successful Psychic Test.

 

Personally I'd ditch the Crusader and take another squad of Deathwing Terminators. I'd also seriously consider ditching the Deathwing Knights for another squad of Deathwing Terminators. You need bodies on the table; Grey Knight Terminators are as good as Deathwing, and are cheaper to boot.

 

Also consider swapping Belial's wargear; although I can see the benefit of the Storm Shield, you're probably better off using the Sword of Silence. It's your best bet in melee against his Dreadknight if he takes one.

[Dark_Dell]

quick question on the command squad can i take a CML and another heavy some forums have different views most of which end up waiting for FAQ updates.  Also are all grey knights fearless like me.

[IndigoJack]

No, the command squad gets one heavy, and the only GKs that are fearless are purifiers, draigo, and crowe. Inquisitors are stubborn, and everyone else is just plain ATSKNF.

 

EDIT: Prior to the FAQ, there was a debate on whether or not a DW terminator could take a CML and a TH/SS or lightning claws, but the FAQ cleared that up.

[Dark_Dell]

Are squads with lightning claws totally worthless nowadays?

[shortysl]

Are squads with lightning claws totally worthless nowadays?

No, they'll still annihilate anything with an armour save of 3+ or worse. I suspect most people prefer the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield simply because there's been a sharp rise in the prevalence of AP2 firearms in most armies, which itself has come about because of the drastic drop in the prevalence of AP2 melee weapons in most armies. If you don't plan on exposing your Lightning Claw armed models to ranged attacks then they're still perfectly effective, as long as you're not planning on killing Terminators with them......

[Dark_Dell]

Well I lost to the grey knights but it was very close he didn't wipe me off the map and the only reason he beat me is because he rolled and got the extra turn and then got 3 siege breaker points by a hair I defiantly believe the deathwing can contend the land raider didn't much except soak up fire from 2 razor backs and the deathwing knights didn't cause many casualties but held there ground and barely got wiped off the map. Over all it was a lose but I count it atleast a tie and the fact I had it won