Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 I don't have my copy of Dark Creed on hand, but is it possible that it simply said all those who were purged were Terrans? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Dark Creed, pg. 184 "Our lord Lorgar once more reformed the Brotherhood, again with great mourning and remorse. Thus were the Legion's ranks cleansed and unified. In one week, thus were all warrior brothers of Terran birth eradicated, leaving only those of Colchis blood behind. Great was the Urizen's lamentation, for those warriors slain were his sons, his flesh and blood, children of his own gene-code. And yet, through no fault of their own and as a direct result of being raised in isolation from him, they had to be removed. Their will had been utterly corrupted by the lies of the False Emperor. Their souls had been closed off to the great truth." Empasis mine. So, in one freakin' week, 15,000 Word Bearers died, all Terran. And apparently, they could not be corrupted because of having spent time under the Emperor's orders, despite many Terrans in other Legions joining Horus's cause no matter their world of birth, and many born on their Primarch's homeworlds turning against their Primarchs (Barsabbas Dantioch, fr'ex). This is my point. This doesn't feel right to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Hmm...that's in universe dialogue...blast and be bother that omnibus, where did I leave it? If I remember correctly the one saying that is Marduk's Acolyte...Ashkanshez? I doubt I spelled that correctly. Anyway, I'm more inclined to suspect that guy of either lying or genuinely having no clue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 And that'd be cool, I hope he was lying. Listen, I'm not arguing for one side or the other, I'm just confused by two pieces of fluff that are kinda stepping on each others toes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Hmm, okay so it is specific. And Wade does raise a point, but at the same time considering the Word Bearers mentality, it is possible that it's true. Just look at Calth. It was a purge that Lorgar sent all those he believed were letting their hatred of the Ultramarines blind them from fully devoting themselves to the path. If anything, it just looks like Lorgar was not willing to take any chances and was eliminating those whose loyalty he questioned. Possibly. Not entirely too sure. Granted, that does put a little kinker in the fan fluff you're talking about but that kinker is easier to get over than an actual fluff conflict. And coming back full circle to the OP, as A D-B said, there were only a handful of Custodes and they were attached only to one Expedition. I mean, the Pilgrimage literally happened right under their noses, the Dropsite Massacre happened right under their noises, I mean if those two major events could happen, is it so unbelievable that a purge could happen? IIRC, didn't Dark Creed even say that most of the XVII Legion didn't even know that the purge by the Brotherhood had happened, much less the Brotherhood's existence? So if anything, the XVII seems to do a pretty good job of keeping secrets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Kol is correct...Burias didn't even know the Brotherhood was a thing until Kor Phereon's version started spreading through Marduk's host. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Well, I suppose I should offer up my two cents on the subject, seeing as this is as much about my army as it is about the Legion as a whole. From what I gathered on the subject, the purge occurred after the Istvaan dropsite massacre. I could be wrong but ohwell. I say it came after because doing this within the span of a week pre Istvaan seems off to me... After all, many within the legion was probably still in the dark as to what was going on until the massacre. I interpret it as mainly just the officers knew of such things and then the rest of the legion followed suit after the dropsite massacre. It has little to do with them being Terran born as it is with members of the legion (no matter their birth world) wishing to remain true to the faith in the Emperor, despite their loyalty in the Urizen. The culling happened just as with every legion but I think it's important to remember that symbolism means just as much to metaphysics as the act itself. Whether the Terrans were loyal to Lorgar or not, they represented something, a connection to the Emperor. For the task that needed to be done, the legion needed to be pure in intent and unity. The Terrans represented that impurity of the past and with their death, the legion was to become pure. There was nothing tying them down any longer to holy Terra and they could embrace the truth in all its glory. This is why Lorgar was so devastated by such an act. Many of them might still have been loyal. But they had to die nonetheless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Possibility: I believe it was in Betrayer that Lorgar stated that Erebus was already subverting some of the original writings with a little insert there, and something taken away here and then making sure those copies were what were spread throughout the Legion. So its possible that Ashkanaez(spelling?) wasn't lying but rather perpetuating a lie without knowledge to the contrary. For example, IIRC, Marduk was part of the first Brotherhood but made no mention of what exactly he did or how long it took. At the same time, we know the Purge wasn't even common knowledge within the Legion, much less without. Argel Tal even goes so far as to say that there was no purge as all were loyal and instead, Calth was the Legion's purge of all who would twist their Word of Lorgar to fulfill their own hatred. And that was someone who Erebus told about the Purge. It might have been the "You're a liar so why should I trust you?" Schpiel. It's also possible that Erebus ad some of his brothers started culling the Terrans and then Calth saw the overwhelming majority killed off in battle. I meam, I don't know about you but I think the Terran Word Bearers would feel more betrayed than the Colchisian ones when it came to Monarchia. And if the Terran portion was fifteen thousand Marines, well I don't think fifteen thousand Marines could disappear in the matter of a week and no one notice. So I think that part was exaggerated to make for a better story as Erebus trie to make himself look good. To be honest, I'm pretty sure that looks like a bunch of rambling. But let's look at the facts. Erebus says that the purge happened that at least it started pre-Istvaan. Erebus gives the impression on page 473 that it was towards the beginning of the Word Bearers' fall just after the Pilgrimage. Since it is an impression, we don't know if this is true or not. It's possible that those individuals were selected for elimination and simply became "war casualties" over the years, maybe even in Istvaan V itself when the confusion was so great that a "poorly aimed" bolt here, a gladius swing too far there and the purge came that much closer to completion. But back to the facts. The only other reference to that specific purge was in Dark Creed. The person talking was someone who was probably indoctrinated by Kor Phaeron himself and Ashkanaez told Burias that it took only a week an those killed weren't those "few who resisted the truth" but rather all of the Terrans. The fact that this isn't common knowledge means that it is not in the Word of Lorgar, which could mean that even Lorgar was not aware of it. The other possibility is that it was something pushed forward by Erebus and Kor Phaeron as a drive to racially purify the Legion but disguised as an attempt to remove the "Loyalist" Word Bearers and Lorgar just went with it and that was why he planned for them to die at Calth with the rest of the "chaff" he sent there. Basically, all we know is this, the Brotherhood existed and there was some kind of purge. We don't know when and we don't know who it targeted. So essentially, it can be run with in pretty much any way, shape or form. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 It's cool man; it's bben a while since I've read the book, so I didn't remember offhand whether it was specifically stated that they were only watching Lorgar. Plus, I'm typing in the CP, praying that my 1SG don't walk in. Not a good time to do research, per se. :P Training room? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 Only job I can do with a up back right now. Oh, the joys of paperwork. Remember kids; Airborne is good for the heart and the spirit.... not so good for the body. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Same thing with artillery Heathens lol... Ah the joys of being an E-6 with 30% hearing loss and a slipped disk. I feel your pain bro. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274860-a-prayer-for-purging-the-word-bearers-purge-of-terrans/page/2/#findComment-3363827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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