nevaenuffbass Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 So I play flesh tearers and in devisinga drop pod list I can't go past grey hunter sllies, and a rune priest for the inevitable riptides (jaws of the wolf or whatever it is called). and in looking at grey hunters I also saw the wolf guard. Taking a wolf guard in terminator and putting him at th front for the 2+ saves seems well worth it. Taking it one step further, can give them a storm shield as well. But then, well he gets expensive. Gold in challenges, and if that riptide drops it's AP2 pie plate on me with interceptor, hopefully the 3+ invul cna soak enough wounds that combi plasmas can shoot back. So my question, do you find the storm shield worth the points? My allied contingent will looks something like: Run priest 10 wolf guard inc 3 in term armour. Remaining 7 have combi-plasma in a pod 7 grey hunters, plasma gun 8 grey hunters, plasma gun (3 drop pods) Now with the WG terminators - thinking of kitting 2 with cyclone missile launchers and all with storm shields. Quite costly upgrades, but in theory could make them a whole bunch more survivable. Looking for ppl with experience to comment on whether "in theory" translates to tabletop domination? Looking for Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274875-tanking-with-wolf-guard-w-storm-shield-worth-it/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Mathematically, using the wolf guard as a bullet catcher doesn't work out against anything other than AP 3 weaponry. Against AP 2, you do get an invulnerable save, but failing costs you a model you paid at least 33 points for, and if you're in cover, the durability goes away altogether. Either way, it's just a loss of points. Meanwhile, against AP 4, a 2+ save has twice the survivability of a 3+ save, but the Wolf Guard Pack leader cost over twice as much, once again resulting in a net loss of points, especially since you're also depriving yourself of the Wolf Guard pack leader's leadership and challenge ability. Math for AP 2, for reference. Grey Hunter -15 points * odds of dieing (100%)=15 points lost per wound Wolf Guard in TDa- 33 points* odds of dieing (66%)=22 points lost per wound Adding a storm shield renders AP 4+ catching even more of a losing proposition, while against AP2... Grey Hunter -15 points * odds of dieing (100%)=15 points lost per wound Wolf Guard in TDA with Storm shield- 48 points*odds of dieing (1/3)=16 points lost per wound you've reduced the difference in points, but it's still a loss compared to just a regular grey hunter, and if your opponent is smart, they'll just make the storm Shield terminator take the regular wounds first, rendering the whole point moot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274875-tanking-with-wolf-guard-w-storm-shield-worth-it/#findComment-3362890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torin Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Good day bro. Imo you dont really need a SH for the unit. I think its just a waste of point for DP squad. DP squad are meant to die.. if survive.. that a plus for you. it all depends on where you drop your unit. Bare in mind that the interceptor rule only allow your opponent to shoot at the end of your movement phase and the riptide still require a LOS to your unit. Just drop your DP right beside his riptide and see how he react. By looking at the 7 WG of yours is pretty nasty the fact you can take out an entire group of crisis suit or other nasty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274875-tanking-with-wolf-guard-w-storm-shield-worth-it/#findComment-3363107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 I wouldnt bother with the storm shield either. The cost is rarely going to be worth it id think. Id swap some melta in there as well as the plasma, i generally go for a 50-50 mix as then you have better anti tank options. Having two CML is nice, but as you say, expensive. At 5 pts each the H.Flamer isnt a bad choice for drop podding units! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274875-tanking-with-wolf-guard-w-storm-shield-worth-it/#findComment-3363329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Loadout-wise, I'd say I'd go something like this. HQ: Rune Priest -100 points -Powers of your choice, Add runic armor if you happen to have the extra points. Elites -8+2 Wolf Guard Pack -249 points (Cost of Pack leaders, the "+2", is incorporated into the cost of the Grey hunters) -2 in TDA with Power Axe+Heavy Flamer (Solid coverbusting option, and effective should the unit be charged) -2 in Power Armor with Combi-melta+Bolt Pistol (you only lose 2 shots compared to the combi-plasmas they could have, but the 2 combi-meltas give you a turn 1 tank kill, which is a huge boost in versatility) -4 in Power Armor with Combi-plasma+Bolt Pistol -Drop Pod Troops: 8 Grey Hunters -213 points -Plasmagun, Drop Pod -Wolf Guard Pack leader in TDA with Combi-plasma and Power Axe 7 Grey Hunters -198 points (Rune Priest rides here) -plasmagun, Drop Pod -Wolf Guard Pack Leader in TDA with combi-plasma and Power Axe Total: 760 points you can also shave 5 points off one of the Grey Hunters packs by making it a melta-team, which might honestly be the better plan if your meta has some proper mech armies in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274875-tanking-with-wolf-guard-w-storm-shield-worth-it/#findComment-3363384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 What squark said. The storm shield can pay off in some restricted situations. For instance, that 33% chance of dying drops to 22% while the wolf standard is activated, making it pretty awesome. However, this situation may not come to pass often enough for you to bank on it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274875-tanking-with-wolf-guard-w-storm-shield-worth-it/#findComment-3363793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Of course, the pack leader is going to be in a challenge the vast majority of the time in CC*, so he's not going to be tanking unless he's in the same squad as your HQ, and the only HQ unit who really wants to be in challenges is a Warlord who got lucky and got a 4 on the personal traits. I suppose you can try to bank on stalling a combat monster of an HQ for a turn or two, but even with the Re-rollable 2+/3++ on a Grey Knight Brotherhood Champion that's considered a Dicy proposition. *Generally speaking, it's always in one player or the other's to challenge, so the only time challenges don't occur is when someone refuses (Generally not something you want to be doing unless the character is by themselves or you're trying to stop your opponent from getting victory points from the aforementioned warlord trait) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274875-tanking-with-wolf-guard-w-storm-shield-worth-it/#findComment-3364326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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