Unremembered Empire

[Kol Saresk]

It's possible. The Iron hands have been scattered to the four corners pretty much and Alexis' fleet(the part that didn't make it to Terra) is still out there somewhere so who knows, they might even make an appearance. I remember Aurelian said something about Guilliman needing to survive so others would gather in Ultramar and be kept there as they were needed to. Maybe Unremembered Empire is going to show us who all that was.

[Augustus]

How awesome would it  be if the Dark Angels pop out of nowhere, teleport in, and declare everyone traitors. So much Irony that even the Iron Hands could dig it.

[Aegnor]

Was actually thinking that the two guys to the right of the White Scars might actually be Dark Angels. Colour seems off but the design on the knee, other markings and their general look (colour aside) and the big sword seem right for that. More than anything, the armour looks like gunmetal grey, which could be Iron Warriors or Deathguard, but that makes very little sense. Unless the picture.is a flash back to a pre-Heresy incident.

 

Interesting that the Blood Angels and Ultramarines are all going bananas celebrating, including maybe a couple of guys letting rounds off into the air, while the White Scars and Iron Hand/Dark Angels look extremely solemn.

[Kol Saresk]

Maybe that's what happened to Warsmith Dantioch's survivors. The more I look at it, I don't think they're Iron Hands. Too much skin. Not a single visible augmetic.

[Conn Eremon]

I assumed White Scars and Imperial Fists. They got a yellow sheen, and the blackish and bone colored pauldrons made me think Sigismund's First Company.

[Aegnor]

Maybe that's what happened to Warsmith Dantioch's survivors. The more I look at it, I don't think they're Iron Hands. Too much skin. Not a single visible augmetic.

That's a pretty good call, given we know Dantioch was met by an emissary from Guilliman and called to the muster.

[Artein]

I assumed White Scars and Imperial Fists. They got a yellow sheen, and the blackish and bone colored pauldrons made me think Sigismund's First Company.

 

I'd say that the what's left of the Retribution Fleet is more probable. Also here: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Blog/ho-ho-horus-heresy.html they wrote 

As I've been telling anybody who'll listen at Black Library events, the build up to Unremembered Empire has been going on for a while now. Anybody who's already read Graham McNeill's Rules of Engagement, John French's The Crimson Fist, Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Savage Weapons and James Swallow's Fear To Tread should already have enough clues to piece together what Dan's next novel is about.

[Kol Saresk]

So, Ultramarines, Iron Hands, The leftovers of the Retribution Fleet and the Blood Angels all under one roof. So will they be clashing heads with the Lion and/or the Night Lords?

 

EDIT: No, wait. I'm thinking of the wrong novella/short story. Savage Weapons had the Dark Angels going to Ultramar at the end of it. Which sounds weird because of two reasons.

 

1.) The Ruinstorm

 

2.) How the blazes is everyone getting through it? Guilliman gets out a message and the I Legion are able to go to the meeting and then leave. Either the same forces that threw the Retribution Fleet and the Blood Angels really want them there or something's fishy.

[Legionator]

The white figures are most probably White Scars, one of them carries a scimatar.

The darker ones are Dark Angels, their knightly postures give them away.

 

Pretty convincing proofs, yeah.

[Brannick]

Of the two in White armour the guy on the right (the one facing left) in the pic appears to have a tulwar sheathed at his waist which suggests White Scar to me as well.

Also, is it just me or do the guys to the right of him look as though they could be Iron Hands? Or possibly even some of Malcador's Knights Errant?

I think the guys to the right are Spaces Wolves; their body language speaks volumes methinks.

[Kais Klip]

Of the two in White armour the guy on the right (the one facing left) in the pic appears to have a tulwar sheathed at his waist which suggests White Scar to me as well.

Also, is it just me or do the guys to the right of him look as though they could be Iron Hands? Or possibly even some of Malcador's Knights Errant?

I think the guys to the right are Spaces Wolves; their body language speaks volumes methinks.

That's what I assumed as well, but where are the pelts, the trinkets, the little things we have come to know wolves drag about? The colour is gunmetal grey, and the hair on the right one would definetly suggest he is space wolf, but his counterpart on the left... I say it's Garro's group; that's Garro's men and its Garro's task to find out just what our Guilliman is up to, and given their loyalties to the Emperor's imperium, they are understandably grumpy at this particular party.

Edit: the pair to the left of them are definitely white scars, no doubt about it.

[Brannick]

Varren and Garro then, perhaps?

[Conn Eremon]

Zooming in, that don't look grey. To me, it looks clearly yellow. Dirty and beaten, but yellow.

[Kais Klip]

Zooming in, that don't look grey. To me, it looks clearly yellow. Dirty and beaten, but yellow.

One of us is blind then hehe. Nah, I see the blotches of yellow I think you are referring to, but I have to blame the yellow skies and the lighting on that.

 

Edit: on the upper knee guard and the lower right portion of the left pauldron, on the Mohawk guy, right?

[Cerbero666]

Well, this is my guess for the group of 4 astartes: The two from the left are White Scars, they got the white amours, the red details and the scimitar. The one in the middle is a Dark Angel, if you look closely he's left knee is in a dark green colour, plus the posture, plus some red iconography in his left shoulder. The one from the right is a Space Wolf, he got the beard, the mohawk, the grey armour, the posture and if you look closely you could notice a braid in the right part of his chestplate falling from his head.

 

Now, the Retribution Fleet. I'm not so sure that Polux and his guys reached Ultramar instead of Terra (but after what Artein has posted I don't know). The Fleet left Phall through the "tunnel" that the astrotelepathic message from Dorn opened in the warp storms, and by the description of the planetary system it could perfectly be Terra or Ultramar. I would like it more if it was Ultramar.

 

Now a personal theory of why all the people has been stopping around Ultramar lately (besides the you know: "Let's give the Ultras some shining moments in the Heresy"). I imagine the Ruinstorm more like a space whirpool, it sucks all in. All the fleets that try to travel through the warp are attracted to the Ultramar system by the Ruinstorm. That's the same reason because the Ultramar Realm is isolated, no one can get out of it. Even when other guys try to reach the Realm they could not get out easily. So when Sanguinius, Polux, Russ, Jaghatai, etc.. tried to jumping to another point being "near" the Ruinstorm, the thing get them trapped in its reach. Like Charybdis in the Odyssey.

[Marshal Rohr]

That makes sense. A space whirlpool.

[Conn Eremon]

The problem with that logic, Cerbero666, is that all of these forces escaped Ultramar for the Siege of Terra. But the Ultramarines couldn't.

[Cerbero666]

The problem with that logic, Cerbero666, is that all of these forces escaped Ultramar for the Siege of Terra. But the Ultramarines couldn't.

No necessarily. Maybe in Unremembered Empire they find the way of breach the Ruinstorm, but not all of them decide to go to Terra. I can easily imagine Guilliman staying in Ultramar as a backup plan if the defense of the Palace fails. If all of them were to go to Terra the eastern fringe would be unprotected. Also that they get to broke the barriers of the Ruinstorm doesn't mean that all of them get it at the same time, maybe Sang and the Khan pass through it in the first place and then Russ and Lion, etc... That neither means that they would get out of the Ruinstorm in the same place, maybe Sanguinius and the Khan pass the barriers with less or none difficulty getting near Terra and Lion and Russ don't and they get trapped in smaller fragments of the storm.

 

I will try to put it more visually. If you are in a whirlpool and a force push you out of it, far away from its ends you would easily swin to another location. But if a force push you near the ends of the whirlpool you would need to swin more and with more difficulty to not get trapped again in its center.

[Kol Saresk]

That sounds very logical. The only "problem"(really minor) is that Prospero is a little closer to Terra than it it the galactic east from most of the maps I have seen. IIRC, it is actually in the Sol Segmentum. And going by the books listed, the list says they shouldn't be there. Not saying you are wrong, just the only flaw I find in your theory. Although "near" in the warp tends to become a rather relative term.

 

To be honest, I can't decide who the figure on the right is. He's got that weird color that could be either a beaten yellow or a yellowish grey. He has white shoulderpards, I can see that but try as I might, the faded symbol looks more like a fist than a wolf's head but at the same time it is just so faded.

 

Although, I never had the impression that Polux could have made it either to Terra or Ultramar. I always had the impression it was somewhere other than Terra. My reasoning is that on page 123, Polux says that it was a place he had been to long ago. Since Space Marines tend to be so long-lived and he was only away from Terra for a while, but not the long. There would be no need for him to say that it had been a long time since he had been at Terra. The other fact is that he says that the marshalling of forces was greater than he had ever seen. Terra was already pretty well-defended. The outbreak of the Heresy caused the surface to become better defended. But there were still only Imperial Fists there. What was there when the Heresy broke out is all that is still there so Terra shouldn't have changed that much since he left. In contrast, only a fraction of the largest Space Marine Legion has either died in battle or isolated in the Underground of Calth. Put them all in one system, say Macragge, the very center of Ultramar, you might just get the picture he was describing. Especially if you throw in the Blood Angels, some Dark Angels, some White Scars(since the Khan is in the Chondax system with the Alpha Legion IIRC) and possibly some Space Wolves. That and I always took the comment "This is not Terra"(cue Ultramarine-Sparta kick) literally rather tan figuratively. At least, that's how I always took it, except that people other than the Ultramarines is a recent concept.

 

EDIT: Cormac, at least a portion of the White Scars are in Chondax with the Alpha Legion. The Dark Angels are still in the Thramas Crusade to finish off the Night Lords and because something is also isolating the Eastern Fringe(or at least that area of it), possibly a side effect of the Ruinstorm but we know that the I and VI Legions eventually head to Terra together and that the I Legion specifically has gone to Ultramar and left in the events between Savage Weapons and The Lion.

[Artein]

I don't think that the Space Wolves are there at all.

 

On the other hand, as with other legions, there might be only a squad or two of them. Like 10 White Scars. It doesn't mean that WS Legion or the Khan is there. Legiones Astartes were massive beings scattered across the galaxy. I know, they had mustering points like UM on Calth or BA.... somewhere before Signus but we still have some elements of them on the other side of the galaxy, like Mhotep, Skraal or whatever this Ultramarine's name in Battle for the Abyss was, or Word Bearers and Space Wolves on Signus in Fear to Tread, or those in The Outcast Dead, or WS, EC and WE in Sword of Truth, or those Ultramarines in this short story.... Gates of Terra or whatever, haven't read that one.

 

So yeah, probably there are elements of those legions on Macragge. Not sure if whole legions. Not sure if with primarchs.

 

On the other hand those might be BA apothecaries and Sanguinary Guards. Unlikely? Sure. Possible? From what we know, yes.

 

My bet is still on WS and IF. At least on the cover.

[Kol Saresk]

As well as the Iron Warriors of Dantioch, wherever those guys went. And there was that "Perfect Fortress" that was defended by the EC as well as that one Word Bearers outpost that also got taken out in the same book. I think that's one of the things we forget. The Legions were legions. Anywhere that a significant force showed could be said as saying "The __ Legion participated in this battle" or "These two Legions battled each other here." Like when Little Horus fought those White Scars.

[Cerbero666]

That sounds very logical. The only "problem"(really minor) is that Prospero is a little closer to Terra than it it the galactic east from most of the maps I have seen. IIRC, it is actually in the Sol Segmentum. And going by the books listed, the list says they shouldn't be there. Not saying you are wrong, just the only flaw I find in your theory. Although "near" in the warp tends to become a rather relative term.

 

To be honest, I can't decide who the figure on the right is. He's got that weird color that could be either a beaten yellow or a yellowish grey. He has white shoulderpards, I can see that but try as I might, the faded symbol looks more like a fist than a wolf's head but at the same time it is just so faded.

 

Although, I never had the impression that Polux could have made it either to Terra or Ultramar. I always had the impression it was somewhere other than Terra. My reasoning is that on page 123, Polux says that it was a place he had been to long ago. Since Space Marines tend to be so long-lived and he was only away from Terra for a while, but not the long. There would be no need for him to say that it had been a long time since he had been at Terra. The other fact is that he says that the marshalling of forces was greater than he had ever seen. Terra was already pretty well-defended. The outbreak of the Heresy caused the surface to become better defended. But there were still only Imperial Fists there. What was there when the Heresy broke out is all that is still there so Terra shouldn't have changed that much since he left. In contrast, only a fraction of the largest Space Marine Legion has either died in battle or isolated in the Underground of Calth. Put them all in one system, say Macragge, the very center of Ultramar, you might just get the picture he was describing. Especially if you throw in the Blood Angels, some Dark Angels, some White Scars(since the Khan is in the Chondax system with the Alpha Legion IIRC) and possibly some Space Wolves. That and I always took the comment "This is not Terra"(cue Ultramarine-Sparta kick) literally rather tan figuratively. At least, that's how I always took it, except that people other than the Ultramarines is a recent concept.

 

EDIT: Cormac, at least a portion of the White Scars are in Chondax with the Alpha Legion. The Dark Angels are still in the Thramas Crusade to finish off the Night Lords and because something is also isolating the Eastern Fringe(or at least that area of it), possibly a side effect of the Ruinstorm but we know that the I and VI Legions eventually head to Terra together and that the I Legion specifically has gone to Ultramar and left in the events between Savage Weapons and The Lion.

Really good point about Polux and the Retribution Fleet. And about the whirpool theory I was of course working with the concept of the relativity of space and time in the warp. So if the Wolves try to make a jump they would be affected by the "area of effect" of the Ruinstorm, even when they're "away" from its edges. Because maybe they're far away of the Ruinstorm in the realspace but not in the warp.

 

IMO the guys who gonna visit Ultraland are: Blood Angels, White Scars, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, The Retribution Fleet, Dantioch and his guys, and maybe some of the rest of the Iron Hands and the Salamanders. I think Guilliman is taking advantage of the effect produced by the Ruinstorm to regroup the shattered loyalists forces, and trying to convince them that Terra is lost and the only place where they could face Horus and the traitors are the 500 worlds of Ultramar. But he will play the kingmaker role and will name Sanguinius the "Emperor" of this Imperium Secundus, the thing is Sang won't be very pleased with that decision and will go to Terra because (as Fear to Tread established) he knows that he must be there to fight Horus to death.

 

So we'll have a really interesting scenario, where some loyalists brothers take a stand in one side or another. That doesn't mean that Guilliman is a traitor or a coward, and Sang is a hero, etc... That just means that the Primarchs gonna propose new perspectives to confront the traitor forces, and the process will lead to the already established lore, where Sanguinius and the Khan reach Terra, Guillman stays in Ultramar defending the eastern fringe and Lion and Russ get delayed in their way to the throne-world. By the way another reason why those two didn't reach Terra in time can be some other problems they faced during their travel. IIRC the Wolves were attacked by a force of the Alpha Legion to prevent them from reach Terra.

[Kol Saresk]

Definitely sounds like a plausible theory. All things will be revealed in due time I imagine.

[Marshal Rohr]

I'm gonna throw it out there and hypothesize that the Dark Angels play a part in people not being able to make it to Terra in time.

[Cerbero666]

I'm gonna throw it out there and hypothesize that the Dark Angels play a part in people not being able to make it to Terra in time.

 

Interesting, I love the conspiracies theories and even more if it's Dark Angels related but why do you think that? 

 

It seems that Dan Abnett has mentioned some machinations in the Unremembered Empire novel, mentioning The West Wing tv series, so this will be political movements, buying of friendship and many different POV from the many factions reunited in Ultramar, is gonna be epic.