GAZ_AV_NZ Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 vulkan is on cruzes ship in the maze perturabo made for cruze. See the book on perturabo. Book will maybe have 1 primarch escaping from anothers ship. Good guy for a bad guy. My guess..... while cruze escapes from the lion... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3391251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Do you guys think that their could be a possible "prisoner exchange"??? Vulkan for kurze? That would be fun and tense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3391951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andystarscream Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Do you guys think that their could be a possible "prisoner exchange"??? Vulkan for kurze? That would be fun and tense. I do now :) I hadn't thought of it before but would anyone want kurze back? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3392017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Lol we had a saying for a dude in my old unit. "Hemay be a psychopath but damnit he is our psychopath" and Kurze could also see the future so that could be a valuable thing to have when trying to overthrow dad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3392405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Horus might not want him back enough to trade back a loyal primarch, but Sevatar or others in the Night Lords legion may. That said, I think Kurze AND Vulkan both escaping rather than being released is much more likely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3392544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaze07 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Wait a second am I missing something huge! is Kurze Locked up as well??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3392559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Unconfirmed. There's also the stickler that the Lion went to Ultramar after Savage Weapons and before The Lion(Both of which were before The Prince of Crows) and since Mortarion is supposed to be there, it would explain why Typhus was able to make an appearance in The Lion. But like the above, that is speculation from another point of view and either could end up being right, or wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3392749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Man... I really hope I don't have to bear witness to my Legion (Death Guard) getting their butts kicked. If Curze is still in the possession of the Loyalists, it COULD be a prisoner exchange with Mortarion at the helm, as we know both Curze and Mortarion had a brotherly bond. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3392767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I could see a "prisoner exchange ;)" planned by the traitors and then try to pull an ambush on the loyalists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3392989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 A prisoner exchange, Curze for who? Vulkan? As if the Salamanders hasn't suffered enought Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3393353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Wait a minute, I thought the hearsay said that Vulkan being in the maze is dealt with in Vulkan Lives? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3393391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 From Mr. Abnett's Blog: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=16623482&postID=1733586323263188305 January 2013 Right now, I'm writing about court intrigue during the Horus Heresy, so I'm ransacking all the stuff I can find on the Tudor Court, the Vatican, Italian Principalities, Imperial Rome etc. etc. But when the (goodness me!) half dozen Primarchs I'm handling here start duking it out through a city hand-to-hand, I don't know WHAT I'm going to start looking at. That may be when fiction starts looking at other fiction, and I start drawing on the thousands of superhero comics I've written over the last two decades... Half a dozen Primarchs! Sweet! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3393507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Jesus. That'll be an epic fight. Of epic proportions. I wonder, though. Is it a free for all, a 3 on 3, 5 on 1, 3 separate duels . . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3393522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I'm thinking superman vs zod like the newest movie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3393557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 If the Lion takes place after Unremembered Empire and Lion confronts with Mortarion in Unremembered Empire, how could he questioned Death Guard's treachery and Iron Hands' loyality in the Lion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3393616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Because He is aware of Istvaan III and V. Remember he secured those siege engines from Perturabo and then he was regretting it later on and IIRC, the Uron Hands tried to tell him about Guillaman and the Lion told him that he already knows what his brother is planning. Although we're not sure what happens in Unremembered Empire. It's not piblished yet. I'm just pointing out that since the Lion has already been to and from Ultramar and doesn't like what Guilliman is planning, it would be weird for him to go back. Granted, like everything else, it is speculation on what I see as "rational" but like sanity, rational is a point of view and I could be wrong. Either way, I look forward to the book. EDIT: IIRC correctly as well, he questioned the Iron Hands precisely because their Primarch was dead. The Lion is where everyone got the idea that El'Jonson is paranoid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3393648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 If Abnett is the other then we can almost be sure that there will only be the briefest (if at at) mention of the Lion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3393809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith’ari Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 It's been a while since I've read The Lion, but I was under the impression that it was set before Unremembered Empire, or am I forgetting something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3393932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 We don't know. Unremembered Empire is published after The Lion, but it wouldn't be the first time something has been further back in the time line a book(or story) that was published before it. For example, A Thousand Sons. According to the events described in that book, it ended before Istvaan III, an event that had already been covered in at least two books that I can think off the top of my head as well as Fulgrim starting well before Istvaan III and then making it all the way to the end of Istvaan V. But, it is published that Savage Weapons ends with El'Jonson receiving a message from Guilliman and setting a course for Ultramar and that in The Lion, as well as not liking whatever it is that Guilliman said. From my point of view(which is no more right or wrong than anyone else's), either that is the setting for Unremembered Empire, or it is another event. Either way, it's sort of a "gaping hole" in the timeline, which pretty much covers 90% of the Heresy to begin with before BL and FW started writing books. And as the Imperium Secundus was loosely referenced to and Unremembered Empire is supposed to be about the Imperium Secundus, to me that makes more logical sense than the Lion going back to somewhere he doesn't want to go. Then again, it could just be that he is going to wreck Guilliman's little empire since he has a newfound toy that lets him go wherever he wants, whenever he wants. Also, since Vulkan Lives is supposed to deal with, well Vulkan, and whatever mess he is, I don't think he will still be a prisoner by Unremembered Empire. I also highly doubt that they took an already built ship and found a way to put a maze into it. Personally, since in Savage Weapons, we see that the Night Lords are already building their fortress and the foundation is already complete. I think that is where we will find our maze. So no to the prisoner exchange. Also, I still don't believe the Lion is a prisoner. Looking at Prince of Crows right now, my reasoning comes from the fact that the Lion tried to kill Curze at the beginning of the book(he actually thought he had succeeded), I doubt the Lion would be less lenient the second time around. That being said, I do believe he is on the Invincible Reason. This little tidbit is why: Shadows of Treachery Anthology, Prince of Crows Novella, by A D-B, Page 405(same page as the beginning of Epilogue for those who may have a different page number or a digital copy) They didn't have the Primarch. That much, he knew for certain. His surviving brothers spoke of it - of the Dark Angels' final overwhelming assault - and Lord Curze at last realising the odds sweeping his sons into early graves. He'd turned from the Lion in that moment, turned from the battle... and fled. If Curze still lived, he was haunting the lower decks of the Invincible Reason even now. Perhaps he was coming to free his sons, but again, Sevatar wasn't one to hold out in the name of unrealistic hope. Emphasis is mine. But we're given two choices to believe. One, Curze is dead. Or, he is hiding somewhere in the lower decks. And since Sevatar starts to say that they are getting out soon, I'd imagine he either is about to free his sons or he is about to do something that will have the bonus of freeing his sons. Either way, he is not a prisoner and so their will be no "prisoner exchange". EDIT: But like I said, this speculation based on conclusions that I reached from the text. They are no more right or wrong than what anyone else says and the purpose of my post is not to say who is right or wrong, but merely to explain my conclusions and how I reached them. No more, no less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3394083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith’ari Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Cool, thanks for clearing that up for me. Just making sure I hadn't missed anything! :D I'm really looking forward to this novel & I can't wait to see how the various plot threads tie together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3394215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 prisoner exchange would ruin the 2 primarchs reputations for all time as well. this stuff is all about gods and demigods performing heroic deeds or equally tragic betrayals. prisoner exchange of two of the most powerful beings in the galaxy would just be humiliating, and i dont think the fans of either legion would be happy with that dent in pride. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3395054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRIBUN Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Humiliating? Did you read the humiliation of the word bearers in the first heretic? Some times the astartes are more human than the mortals themselves. Especially the prinarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3395120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Monarchia was "humiliating", but in a different stroke. It has been a part of thefluff since the IA articles and serves as part of the motivation as to why Lorgar was even willing to look for different gods. It served a purpose. What purpose would a prisoner exchange(assuming that is even what happens or is even plausible in terms of fluff) serve? The Loyalists are sworn to kill the Traitors and vice versa. The only reason Vulkan is a prisoner is because Curze is the one who caught him and Curze is the one whose bedchamber makes even Lorgar go queasy. EDIT: That and it serves the purpose of explaining where Vulkan has been all this time. Personally, I think surviving Curze as an accomplishment, but I can imagine why more than a few Salamander fans would be willing to make heads role at BL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3395128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I think I must have missed a big plot point. Where and when does Vulkan become Curze's prisoner? Which book(s)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3395143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 In Angel Exterminatus Perturabo mentions that 'a uniquely able prisoner' is in a maze on a 8th Legion Warship. This was confirmed by BL to be Vulkan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274895-unremembered-empire/page/8/#findComment-3395146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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