Unremembered Empire

[Conn Eremon]

Oh. I remember that, but I hadn't heard that BL had confirmed the identity.

[Kol Saresk]

Oh. I remember that, but I hadn't heard that BL had confirmed the identity.

IIRC, it was something that fully came in the wake of the Weekender. Technically, nothing official has confirmed it. 

 

 Amazon says:

 

In the wake of the Dropsite Massacre at Isstvan V, the survivors of the Salamanders Legion searched long and hard for their fallen primarch, but to no avail. Little did they know that while Vulkan might have wished himself dead, he lives still. As the war continues without him, all eyes turn to Ultramar and Guilliman’s new empire there, and Vulkan’s sons are drawn into an insidious plot to end the Heresy by the most underhand means imaginable.

 

And Nick Kyme says:

 

Q. Vulkan Lives. Other than the obvious, what can we expect from this?

 

Without giving the story away, it’s a two pronged narrative in which a double storyline interweaves with the other. It features several primarchs, most prominently Vulkan and Konrad Kurze, and as such the story examines the relationship between these two characters, chipping away at the psyche of both. There’s the return of some classic characters from the series (not all mine, it has to be said) and very little of the story itself is set on Isstvan V, although the resonance of what happened there does inform e narrative to a large degree. ‘Vulkan Lives’, ‘Scorched Earth’ and ‘Promethean Sun’ all connect. And my final little reveal is that this novel leads in to Dan’s ‘Unremebered Empire’, which directly follows it on the schedule and sets up a major story thread in that book.

 

So technically, it hasn't been officially confirmed(unless it's somewhere on the BL sight and I just can't find it) and it could still be called speculation, although the allusions to this being the case are much stronger than they are with just "a mysterious prisoner trapped in an Alcatraz maze built for Curze" from Angel Exterminatus and "Vulkan wishes he was dead" from Betrayer' which was all everyone had before.

 

So it could turn out to be wrong. As far as I can tell, it is speculation after all.

[Conn Eremon]

Thanks for the clarification, Kol.

 

Interesting, though, if the maze was meant for Curze but instead traps Vulkan on Curze's ship. If that does turn out to be the case.

[TRIBUN]

Vulkan was probably caught after Istvaan V and was given to Curze...why and how we'll hopefully see in the book.

[Kol Saresk]

I'd be more interested in finding out how the maze got into an already built ship since according to Angel Exterminatus' it has to be built to very exacting mathematical formulae and the two examples we see are both underground and are considered to be very immense. Part of my reasoning as to why I speculate that the maze is more likely the foundation spoken of in Savage Weapons that is on Tsalgualsa. Plenty of room and no one to see what's going on and the Dark Angels didn't even know a foundation was built there and they had been going all over the Eastern Fringe chasing the Night Lords. That and since the Nightfall was pretty much destroyed at the end of Prince of Crows and Vulkan did not make an appearance on the Invincible Reason or anywhere else in the novella while the ship was being torn apart(sounds like the perfect chance to escape to me), I again speculate that the maze is not on the ship.

 

But like I said, the maze's location is speculation.

[Carach]

Humiliating? Did you read the humiliation of the word bearers in the first heretic? Some times the astartes are more human than the mortals themselves. Especially the prinarchs.

lorgar has grown to be something far better since though. The story is far better for that; he was lost and has now found himself, becoming the architect of the heresy as well as a primarch definitely up with the best of them - he's come from zero to hero, for the traitor side at least. 

 

Vulkan could well go from being an unknown and often laughed at weakling to a hero for the good side - albeit on a far smaller scale. As i said earlier; this series is all about heroic acts. Primarchs escaping from other primarchs and their legions is a heroic act, with all the character building in between.

 

on the downside of that q&a above: £15 for a novella is still ridiculously expensive. promethean sun may link but i really wont pay that much for a novella. 

[Augustus]

Fascinating. With the Dark Angels and Salamanders being allies in the rules I wonder if Curze being on the Invincible Reason will result in (like some have suggested) a prisoner swap. I wonder if this was kept hidden from Erebus as he claimed in First Heretic that no primarchs were recovered.

[Conn Eremon]

If you notice, though, the Salamanders are close allies with more than anyone else on that list, including the Warmaster's own. So it'd be less that the Dark Angels and Salamanders share a special bond and more like everybody loves the bromanders.

[Kol Saresk]

Well, since Prince of Crows ended with Curze still running around in the lower levels doing who knows what but definitely not a prisoner, very unlikely it will result in a prisoner swap.

 

And Erebus is unaware of a great many things. For example, in Betrayer we see Erebus following Calth but concurrently with Signus Prime and he still believes that Signus has the possibility of being a success even though Lorgar said itnwould be an impossibility for Sanguinius to ever turn, regardless of how many possible futures fortold it as a potential outcome. Erebus was also unaware that Calth was supposed to be his grave, along with every other Word Bearer that was sent with him, according to Betrayer by Aaron Dembski-Bowden and The Underground War, a story within the Mark of Calth anthology, also by A D-B.

 

And to be honest, I don't see Curze as the type to just give up a prisoner and the only Night Lord who would have the authority and would even be remotely willing to trade a prisoner for Curze, is a prisoner aboard the Invincible Reason, again I don't exactly see much of a basis for a prisoner swap, especially when Vulkan Lives is going to be deaing with Vulkan and whereever he is(and most likely his escape), whike the Lion is still trying to hunt down the Night Haunter aboard his own flagship, according to the people who are currently filling up the brig and would logically then know if whether or not their Primarch had been captured by the Lion.

[Augustus]

Both excellent points. However, there are Night Lords captured that may know of the (possible) captured Vulkan. I could see the Lion making a detour.

[b1soul]

Well, since Prince of Crows ended with Curze still running around in the lower levels doing who knows what but definitely not a prisoner, very unlikely it will result in a prisoner swap.

 

 

Curze could be captured at some point aboard the Invincible Reason.

 

Could it be possible for traitors other than the NL to orchestate the prisoner exchange? I'm not sure of everyone's location at this time, but perhaps other traitors convince/force the NL to give up Vulkan for Curze as Curze is still seen as a useful asset to the traitors' cause.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Well, since Prince of Crows ended with Curze still running around in the lower levels doing who knows what but definitely not a prisoner, very unlikely it will result in a prisoner swap.

 

 

Curze could be captured at some point aboard the Invincible Reason.

 

Could it be possible for traitors other than the NL to orchestate the prisoner exchange? I'm not sure of everyone's location at this time, but perhaps other traitors convince/force the NL to give up Vulkan for Curze as Curze is still seen as a useful asset to the traitors' cause.

Shadows of Treachery Anthology, Prince of Crows Novella, by A D-B, Page 405(same page as the beginning of Epilogue for those who may have a different page number or a digital copy)

They didn't have the Primarch. That much, he knew for certain. His surviving brothers spoke of it - of the Dark Angels' final overwhelming assault - and Lord Curze at last realising the odds sweeping his sons into early graves.

 

He'd turned from the Lion in that moment, turned from the battle... and fled.

 

If Curze still lived, he was haunting the lower decks of the Invincible Reason even now. Perhaps he was coming to free his sons, but again, Sevatar wasn't one to hold out in the name of unrealistic hope.

Maybe. A possibility. The allusion we are given is that if the Lion ever catches Curze, then Curze will die. Or he will continue causing havoc until something like escape happens. Since we know Curze makes it past the Heresy, the only logical choice is that he continues causing havoc. Remember, Curze is someone the Lion has sworn to kill. If he bothers to imprison him after making such an oath and never attempting it before, then he will not let him go. A jailbreak sounds more feasible than an exchange.

 

And right now as far as we know, the Night Lords are the only major Traitor force in the Eastern Fringe and Sevatar scattered them to the four corners of the galaxy. Although there was Typhon and crew in The Lion.

 

But honestly, I think we need to figure out when Unremembered Empire is happening. Remember, this is what BL said about it in their December 14, 2012 blogpost:

 

As I've been telling anybody who'll listen at Black Library events, the build up to Unremembered Empire has been going on for a while now. Anybody who's already read Graham McNeill's Rules of Engagement, John French's The Crimson Fist, Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Savage Weapons and James Swallow's Fear To Tread should already have enough clues to piece together what Dan's next novel is about.

 

The part I find peculiar is that Prince of Crows had already been published since September 25, 2012. But, Christian Dunn cites Savage Weapons as part of the "building up" to Unremembered Empire.

 

We know that at the end of Savage Weapons, the Lion is heading to Ultramar, but in The Lion, he has already left Ultramar and did not like what happened at all. Part of the reason he questioned the Iron Hands and wondered if they were Traitors in disguise IIRC.

 

But we are told "Savage Weapons", not Prince of Crows. almost as if he's setting a point of intersection with a concurrent "mini-series". But hey, that's just speculation.

 

If I hit my mark though, it would mean no prisoner exchange.

 

Besides, isn't Unremembered Empire supposed to take place in the Ultima Segmentum? The Night Lords have pretty much been in the Eastern Fringe all this time. If Vulkan is released/escaping/traded-like-a-baseball-card during this book and not Vulkan Lives, that is going to have to be a one of a kind segue.

[Dorian]

 

Oh. I remember that, but I hadn't heard that BL had confirmed the identity.

IIRC, it was something that fully came in the wake of the Weekender. Technically, nothing official has confirmed it. 

 

 Amazon says:

 

In the wake of the Dropsite Massacre at Isstvan V, the survivors of the Salamanders Legion searched long and hard for their fallen primarch, but to no avail. Little did they know that while Vulkan might have wished himself dead, he lives still. As the war continues without him, all eyes turn to Ultramar and Guilliman’s new empire there, and Vulkan’s sons are drawn into an insidious plot to end the Heresy by the most underhand means imaginable.

 

And Nick Kyme says:

 

Q. Vulkan Lives. Other than the obvious, what can we expect from this?

 

Without giving the story away, it’s a two pronged narrative in which a double storyline interweaves with the other. It features several primarchs, most prominently Vulkan and Konrad Kurze, and as such the story examines the relationship between these two characters, chipping away at the psyche of both. There’s the return of some classic characters from the series (not all mine, it has to be said) and very little of the story itself is set on Isstvan V, although the resonance of what happened there does inform e narrative to a large degree. ‘Vulkan Lives’, ‘Scorched Earth’ and ‘Promethean Sun’ all connect. And my final little reveal is that this novel leads in to Dan’s ‘Unremebered Empire’, which directly follows it on the schedule and sets up a major story thread in that book.

 

So technically, it hasn't been officially confirmed(unless it's somewhere on the BL sight and I just can't find it) and it could still be called speculation, although the allusions to this being the case are much stronger than they are with just "a mysterious prisoner trapped in an Alcatraz maze built for Curze" from Angel Exterminatus and "Vulkan wishes he was dead" from Betrayer' which was all everyone had before.

 

So it could turn out to be wrong. As far as I can tell, it is speculation after all.

 

I seem to be missing something. I never heard of "Scorched Earth" before. Can anyone enlighten me?

[Brother Captain Lucian]

 

Scorched Earth is next up. This is a Horus Heresy novella that won’t be limited edition but will be a forerunner to a later novel I have in the works. It’s set in the aftermath of Isstvan V and features two Salamander characters searching for Vulkan’s body amongst the ruins and devastation. Expect a cameo from one of the Iron Hands in ‘Feat of Iron’ too… Oh, and the cover by Neil Roberts is absolutely stunning. Very moody and something rather different for the Horus Heresy, not really seen before.

 

From Nick Kyme's blog.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah I want to say that it was supposed to be a limited edition release but I don't really ever recall it being published.

[b1soul]

I have to say...the premise of Vulkan Lives sounds incredible but...Nick Kyme is writing it. Nick Kyme is barely above James Swallow level. I'm afraid his lack of writing skill will ruin an a great concept

[TRIBUN]

Hm, I liked the dwarf books of Nick.

[Kol Saresk]

I have to say...the premise of Vulkan Lives sounds incredible but...Nick Kyme is writing it. Nick Kyme is barely above James Swallow level. I'm afraid his lack of writing skill will ruin an a great concept

Could be worse. Could be Matt Ward. Or Gav Thorpe. Or C.S. Goto. At least(in my opinion) Nick Kyme and James Swallow seem to be hit and miss. Sometimes even within the story. For example the psychic battle in the third novel. It was nice. Very reminiscent of the X-Men telepathic battles as well as Big Trouble in Little China. Swallow, I liked his Blood Angels series. I liked Flight of the Eisenstein. Fear to Tread...... I'm iffy. I'd be lying if I said I even finished the book because some parts of it are just so hard to get through. Some parts(okay one part really) I liked, some I can tolerate and the rest....... Yeah. So personally, it could be bad, good or "eh" but I won't know until I read it.

[GhostMalone]

When was it confirmed? I thought it was speculation?

[Kol Saresk]

 

Oh. I remember that, but I hadn't heard that BL had confirmed the identity.

IIRC, it was something that fully came in the wake of the Weekender. Technically, nothing official has confirmed it.   Amazon says:

In the wake of the Dropsite Massacre at Isstvan V, the survivors of the Salamanders Legion searched long and hard for their fallen primarch, but to no avail. Little did they know that while Vulkan might have wished himself dead, he lives still. As the war continues without him, all eyes turn to Ultramar and Guilliman’s new empire there, and Vulkan’s sons are drawn into an insidious plot to end the Heresy by the most underhand means imaginable.

And Nick Kyme says:

Q. Vulkan Lives. Other than the obvious, what can we expect from this?

Without giving the story away, it’s a two pronged narrative in which a double storyline interweaves with the other. It features several primarchs, most prominently Vulkan and Konrad Kurze, and as such the story examines the relationship between these two characters, chipping away at the psyche of both. There’s the return of some classic characters from the series (not all mine, it has to be said) and very little of the story itself is set on Isstvan V, although the resonance of what happened there does inform e narrative to a large degree. ‘Vulkan Lives’, ‘Scorched Earth’ and ‘Promethean Sun’ all connect. And my final little reveal is that this novel leads in to Dan’s ‘Unremebered Empire’, which directly follows it on the schedule and sets up a major story thread in that book.

So technically, it hasn't been officially confirmed(unless it's somewhere on the BL sight and I just can't find it) and it could still be called speculation, although the allusions to this being the case are much stronger than they are with just "a mysterious prisoner trapped in an Alcatraz maze built for Curze" from Angel Exterminatus and "Vulkan wishes he was dead" from Betrayer' which was all everyone had before.

So it could turn out to be wrong. As far as I can tell, it is speculation after all.

Unless you mean something else.

[GhostMalone]

@Kol - yep that pretty much was what I wanted, I hadn't seen anything other than speculation but I thank you Sir Kol

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, like I said, technically it is still speculation. Sorry, the skeptic in me feels the need to point it out. But they haven't exactly left much to the imagination. The only speculation is when "Unremembered Empire" happens and what "Vulkan Lives", "Know No Fear", "Savage Weapons", "Betrayer" and "Crimson Fist" are contributing to it exactly.

[Aegnor]

Actually, thinking about it, I can totally see Sevatar in his cell demanding a meeting with the Lion and then telling him the Night Lords have Vulkan as a prisoner somewhere and offering to give the Lion that location in exchange for his own release. And I could see the Lion agreeing to that.

 

So it might not be a straight swap, but rather Sev putting his own skin above whatever scheme Kurze or his brothers had for Vulkan.

 

Edit: oooh, just had shivers of awesomeness imagining ADB's version of the Lion and Sevatar having a (non-violent) face off...

[Kol Saresk]

I can't. This is the same Astartes who led a rear guard to ensure the rest of the Legion made it away. The Astartes who killed his fellow commanding officers when they wanted to kill the Legion in a reprisal attack. The same Astartes who then scattered a Legion to the four corners just so the Legion would survive, even if only in part. The same Astartes who risked his sanity and his life to enter his Primarch's mind. The same Astartes who then led a second rear guard when the I Legion attacked again so his faithless brothers might make it out alive and so his Primarch had a chance to survive. The same Astartes who, when his Primarch awoke and boarded the Invincible Reason, went after his father at the risk of his own life and the cost of his own ship. The sameAstartes who at the end of Prince of Crows seemed pretty sure they'd be getting out soon and when asked how, answered with "The same way we do everything, brother. By killing whoever tries to stop us."

 

I think prisoner exchanges a the last thing on Sevatar's mind, assuming that Vulkan Lives and Unremembered Empire do not happen before The Lion as that would render it moot.

[b1soul]

Could be worse. Could be Matt Ward. Or Gav Thorpe. Or C.S. Goto. At least(in my opinion) Nick Kyme and James Swallow seem to be hit and miss.

Never liked anything by James Swallow. He managed to make the Blood Angels, potentially one of the most interesting legions/chapters, bland and boring. I couldn't finish Nemesis or Flight of the Eisenstein.

 

Nick Kyme...I like Fall of Damnos, everything else he's written has been a miss. Promethean Sun, The Core, and his Salamander books are absolutely awful. Promethean Sun is especially lame...Jurassic Park/DinoRiders vs. Astartes. Bland, uninspired prose...no interesting characters, juvenile action, just terrible