Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 So yeah, in Mark of Calth, specifically the short story Unmarked by Dan Abnett, we get a further look at Oll Persson and even a bit of the Perpetuals in general. For example, on page 370 we see that Oll is at least twenty-two thousand years old and we also see that he knows of the Romanii, Grekans and the Franks, which is revealed that those cultures are not common Imperial knowledge when one of the mortals ask who the Romanii are. On page 377, we see that he actually sailed with Jason and the Argonauts. He also states on the same page that Perpetuals are supposed to live forever, unless stopped by some agency. On page 387, we find out that not all of the Perpetuals are psykers like John Grammaticus, which I think we pretty much assumed after Know No Fear. The most interesting part is this, on page 402. The day he met "Him". 'The likes of us,' He says to Oll, 'the likes of us will leave out print on things down the ages. That is why we were made the way we were. The courses of our livrd will not go unmarked.' 'Mine will.' Oll assures Him. 'I have no stomach for the games you want to play with the world. I just want an ordinary life.' 'My dear friend, you'll have as many of those as you want.' It was summer, a meadow beyond the walls of Nineveh. He had never met another Perpetual before. He would never meet another like Him. Now, originally, I believe the main theory regarding the Perpetuals was that they were the new version of the Sensei and all of that jazz. IIRC, the fact that Legion said that John Grammaticus experienced his first death during the Unification Wars back when the Thunder Warriors were still around was used to reinforce this. But what if we had it wrong? There is no doubt in my mind that the "Him" Oll speaks of is the Emperor. But this would mean that the Emperor is a Perpetual. So wouldn't that give us a clue to how the Perpetuals were made since we know how the Emperor was made? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 is the emperor a perpetual though, he is far more than a standard human, which for all thier many lives the perpetuals basically are? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 my theory is that the perpetuals were created by smaller, less powerful versions of what created the emperor just like the emperor was created by the merging of thousands of psykers into one being to stop chaos from devouring their souls the perpetuals were created for the same reasons but on a smaller scale, it'd explain how oll has been able to die and reincarnate without being devoured by demons and iirc grammaticus is also able to reincarnate with the help of eldar technology/witchcraft/heresy but unlike the emperor they are not god-like psykers or immortal (does the emperor reincarnate or is he actually immortal? who knows) or geniuses because they are not thousands of souls merged into one being but maybe a couple or hundred of weak psykers trying to escape chaos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Well, in Betrayer we see that Erebus actually makes a perpetual by bringing the ”Saint" back. What it the cabal did the same for John? I was thinking that he is referring the to Big E with the "Him" usage. I am not sure though. What if its somebody else? Also, who is that quote attributed to at the end of the story? The one signed "N." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 It's certainly interesting, especially given what occurs in Betrayer after Erebus does the necromantic jig but so far the only real examples are John Grammaticus and Ol Pereson. On the one hand you have a very powerful psyker and on the other a fairly "normal" person. Granted he's very capable but given his age of around 22,000 years the skills he has have likely been aquired and refined over that period. I agree that I think "He" is the Emperor although I would find it very interesting if it refered to someone else. Fingers crossed there's something further explored in The Master of Mankind. Call me impatient but I'm keen to see an advancement in some of the arcs now. We've had Istvaan, we've had Calth and it feels like the only thing we've gotten outside those two is Angel Exterminatus. I suspect Imperium Secundus will provide some further info on the perpetuals since Grammaticus comments that there's a few in the five hundred worlds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 we know of another one, can't remember his name, but the guy that took the confessor (after she came back from the dead) away having just been flamethrowered to death Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Damon Prytanis but his specific abilities are not revealed. Apart from the fact he reincarnated within minutes of being immolated Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 thats the guy, thanks. that seems to be the trademark of all perpetuals Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 I'm not so sure.Of course he's the only one we've seen do it so might be a unviersal trait. We need to see more of them methinks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 It certainly felt implied, in fact, in the audio books he sounds the same as gramaticus, and gramaticus mentions he's on the wrong side of Ultramar in mark of calth, so they may even be one and the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Page 327 of Betrayer, Damon mentions that he is affiliated with the Cabal. On page 328, he lists himself as one of the Perpetuals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Other than a different name he is almost identical to John, still think they'll be one and the same due to John saying he is on cabal business in Ultramar as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Well Damon refers to John as a friend and an idiot when Cyrene corrects him on the pronunciation of her name. He says that John was always better at the languages and she asks who John is and Damon replies that John is a friend. An idiot, but a friend. EDIT: However, that doesn't mean he isn't Grammaticus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Is John even still alive? For those of you who have read legion, but I forget how to do spoilers, even though it's been shown a million times. But then again he pops up in KNF. What's the timeline between legion and KNF? Isn't Legion after? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Well Damon refers to John as a friend and an idiot when Cyrene corrects him on the pronunciation of her name. He says that John was always better at the languages and she asks who John is and Damon replies that John is a friend. An idiot, but a friend. EDIT: However, that doesn't mean he isn't Grammaticus. I think its about 99 % sure that he is talking about grammaticus as is not himself grammaticus Is John even still alive? For those of you who have read legion, but I forget how to do spoilers, even though it's been shown a million times. But then again he pops up in KNF. What's the timeline between legion and KNF? Isn't Legion after? Its before Calth happened after istvan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Yeah, that's what I drew from it as well but it wouldn't be the first time a character referred to himself in the third person while incognito. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 If we believe that Legion occurred before/during the period where Horus was turning rogue (which is strongly implied, given the interactions with the imperial army in that novel), then Grammaticus and his subsequent death would pre-date KNF, which occurs after Horus has already turned and the Heresy is getting into swing. Thus, he's still alive, as he appears to be active in Ultramar at that point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Yeah, he's a Perpetual. Death means almost nothing to him except an inconvenience. Unless some greater agency ends him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 dude, I said this like a week and a half ago in Gree's MoC thread, man. Like verbatim edit sarcasm doesn't really translate well, I worry. but really. great minds think alike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Sorry, I just jumped in at the end of the thread so I didn't really see all of it. Apologies Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Sorry, I just jumped in at the end of the thread so I didn't really see all of it. Apologies lol I'm messin. that thread went to hell pretty quickly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Yep. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274911-a-hint-about-the-perpetuals-moc-spoilers/#findComment-3363709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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