My First DA Game in a billion years! (questions/comments)

[Prot]

So I've been secretly mulling over a loyalist marine project in my mind. And I thought what they heck, I have enough models to put together a goofy Dark Angel list and see what I can do!

 

I played a 1500 pt game and basically used what I felt were 'cool' units. I had some mixed results. Unfortunately I played a pretty good IG player and we had a diagonal deployment but at least it was objectives.

 

My list sort of looked like this:

 

Belial (This guy is too cool.)

 

5 Termies heavy flamer

5 Deathnight? Termies (the flail guys)

 

10 Tacticals- Plasma gun, Plasma Cannon.

 

Dread in a pod w/Heavy Flamer

 

5 Bikes w/2 Plasma guns and vanilla sergeant and a Multimelta attack bike.

 

1 Vengeance Speeder

1 Jet Fighter

 

Not much for 1500pts. And like I said I basically grabbed what I had available so I wouldn't have to proxy too much. My IG opponent had a typical Aegis gunline style deployment with lots of lascannon teams, 2 basilisks, a manticore,  Vendetta gunship, blob squad, Plasma Vets, etc.

 

When he finished deploying my first honest thoughts were... what was I thinking? I literally thought of pulling out my Chaos instead! I saw just a massive pile of 'stuff' with what felt like a zillion guns pointing at me.

 

I have faced this down many times over the years and IG is very popular here (always has been). But with a new army, and considering my goofy angle of taking what 'looks cool', I felt this would be a total wipe out.

 

In assessing the situation we had 6 objectives worth 3 points each on the tables (Big guns - so heavy tanks were worth points, and could claim). I felt my best chance was to work one flank, and essentially keep him busy while retaining an edge on the objectives.... conversely there was NO WAY I could out punch this guy and I knew it.

 

My opponent started with the typical distractions by making fun of my puny list, and asking me if I had brought 'that guy with the ice cream cart'.

 

"Sammael?" I asked.  No, there will be no Dark Angels ice cream for you, just lots of termie fists.. I said.

 

The Game:

 

The game was pretty ugly to start. I combat squaded my Tacticals (So nice compared to Chaos!) and took one objective deep in my corner. I told him I would use my special ability to have all my Termies come in on Turne One. I won the roll for first turn, and opted to give it to my opponent.

 

I realized with only one Pod (with the Dread) I was going to have to drop him first turn. I didn't want him alone.

 

Early Game:

 

The bikes hid, and did a Scout move. He started by bashing half of my Tacticals into oblivion way on my corner of the table.  I went to ground but I just ended up eating more dirt.

 

The Dread came down, and got Stunned by the Quad cannon. Belial came in with the shooty termies and lined up a good flame shot on some IG, and split fire on the guys manning the quad gun. The Deathwing Knights scattered a touch, but not too bad. I also turbo'd the bikes in around that same flank.

 

I gotta tell you I felt like I dropped my Terimes into a Lascannon festival. But that 3+ inv. saved my butt!  Between both termie squads I only lost about 5 of them (about half). It was bad, but they soaked up a ton of firepower. I denied him line of sight on a great deal of his army, but even so, the plasma, melta, and lascannons were pretty overwhelming.

 

The Dread got stunned, and but I snapped off a melta shot on the side of a Chimera! Unfortunately I rolled a 1 to pen. The Dreadnought proceeded to vent his anger by blowing up in a glorious explosion disappointing me to no end. Other than that I had survived my planetfall.

 

Mid Game:

 

After spending about 45 minutes eating flashlights, and lascannons, I had completely rushed his flank. His flyer came in, and was lining up a shot. My Nephilim came in and had the most frustrating dog fight. First off those missiles... ugh. I felt like I was throwing hotdog wieners at his Vendetta. And I got really unlucky through this game... if I ever pen'd his Vendenatta he'd manage to Jink it!

 

I intentionally kept his Quad cannon clear of anyone manning it. I smoked out the guys on it, and he didn't have the angel to get people there. Behind his Aegis line he had a 3 story ruin that he hid most of his line troops in. I was trying to get into it and plant myself in there for the inevitable shooting I would face.

 

I could never truly make that corner. Instead after losing so many termies I finally lost the last of the Deathnights after killing a 20ish man IG squad. This was not their game really, but they held in there. Belial rejoined the shooty Termie squad and formed a little group that hugged a wall where there was no windows. Literally if any termie peeked his head around the corner, it would get vaporized for 4 million lascannons. (which were now swinging out of the Aegis wall to get a better point of view on me and grab objectives.).

 

Late Game

 

After taking multiple pie plates on top of pie plates, I was pretty thinned out. The dread was gone, so was his pod. The bikes had turbo'd , lived through some hairy shooting, and they plasma'd a Chimera, and then a Basilisk. But the second basilisk annihilated them. The attack bike Melta'd a Chimera, then also died to a cowardly guardsman hiding in the aegis line, firing from the masses.

 

Belial held strong with his last 3 Termies and had to stick their necks out for an objective. My remaining tacticals on the far edge spread out to get the other two objectives. I rolled a lot of ones this game.... and those two objectives... well they turned out to be bombs. And on the first turn they could, they both exploded! I still had the though.

 

The Jet Fighter continued to flail away rather uselessly at the Vendetta which was down to one hullpoint but had dropped off its payload on an objective.

 

Finally I pulled my Vengeance speeder out of hiding. It was a heavy so could claim objectives. I let a charged shot go and the cowardly IG went to ground and saved most of the damage. The Vengeance speeder was rewarded for this act by being promptly annihilated by the vendetta gunship. I was holding an objective with it and I now relinquished that objective and gave up a victory point on that death. Ouch.

 

Belial did what heroes do and he left the last 3 termies to guard the objective while he stared down the hordes of bed wetting, quivering guardsmen. He had to keep them away from contesting the objective and assaulted the nearest Guardsmen. Ironically the Sword of Silence had them screaming like little children who had lost their lunch money.

 

My opponent reacted like most desperate, lunchless children do; he took a very dangerous, short ranged Basilisk shot at the termie squad... which proceeded to deviate 10 inches back into him! The Basilisk round blew up the Basilisk, and took out an additional guardsman!! Let that be a lesson to all IG armies out there skimping on the training budgets!!! You get what you pay for... and pay they did! That little trick got me a free victory point which I desperately needed.

 

I ran a 3 man tactical squad to another objective but they just fell short. My Nephilim had flown into the heart of the IG love fest now that the cowardly Vendetta had gone into hover mode and was unattainable. The Jet fighter blew up the Manticore for another victory point.

 

We rolled off and the game ended on Turn 6.

 

End Game

 

We tallied things up and I ended up winning 9 to 7. My only heavy was the Vengeance speeder which I hid most game. I could not believe I won. Someone else watching this game was fairly certain I'd win, but I'm going to call horsepucky on that because I gave myself about a realistic 20% chance of winning after seeing the setup and scenario. I realized after the Vengeance Speeder went down that if I would have ran my Tactical combat squad up to the objective it gave up, I would have had an additional 3 points insuring the win. Belial held off stragglers to keep it in my favour, but he still had a lot of guys left. To my credit, all his tanks were gone though.

 

 

Post Game Notes and Thoughts:

 

You know those times you look at someone else's  army and think, 'man I wish I had that'. Well I thought that way about Dark Angels because my favorite model and playstyle in the game is the Terminator. And Belial lets me take them as troops. As well the Nephilim seemed very cool, and the specialty termies, Deathwing Knights, seemed very, very cool.

 

I have to admit they weren't that impressive. The Nephilim threw me for a curveball. I was surprised how expensive it was points wise. At one point to avoid me, my opponent went into skimmer mode so I couldn't follow him anymore. I tried to follow suite and then realized I can't. The Vendetta is one heck of a deal.... I knew that going in, but I was hoping for a bit more from the Nephilim.

 

The Vegeance speeder, while impressive on paper was easily the most disappointing unit on the table for me. The price of it combined with AV10 is hard for me to personally justify.

 

In a 1500 point, Belial makes Terminators very plausible. I love him (not just because he spanked a pallet full of Guardsmen)! He is set up nicely, he gives me the bonus I need to justify Terminators in a 1500 point list.

 

The base terminator is a little inflexible. I am used to the ultimate flexibility of my Chaos Terminators, but the Chaos ones do not get the benefit of what Belial adds, even if they are a little more expensive.

 

The Deathwing Knights. I really love these models and would love to paint them! I had trouble justifying their expense in this game. Keeping them in a shield stance to retain a toughness of 5 was hard, and nearly impossible in hand to hand, but I tried where I could. It was essential to make up for the numbers. But again, I love the models, and would love to try again against a foe that perhaps is a better match up than IG. I imagine these guys are a good 'anti-death star' unit!!!

 

The Bikes were great. Having a scout move, and the option to throw in the attack bike is nice. Mine fell pretty quickly but that could have been bad luck. I mean staring down that many basilisk shots is pretty hard to do.

 

The Dreadnought in pod was seriously disappointing, but playing Chaos for so long I wanted to use a drop pod pretty badly! I might yank him out of the list.

 

So I really enjoyed trying the codex out. The Dark Angels were actually my first ever army way back when I first started 40K. It was really fun to give it a shot with the new codex. I wouldn't say I see anything in the codex that makes me thing this is a rulebook you're going to see a lot of tournament netlists out of but I suppose it's possible. I like that the codex balance in this one. I haven't had a chance to even play against DA since they've been released in 6th so this was pretty fun.

 

I'm not sure yet if I'll go all the way with these guys but just wanted to share my experience and potentially get some advice and even change up my list a bit... maybe I'll keep going with these guys as a new loyalist project; you never know!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tenebris]

Now that was quite the comeback in the last two turns, and as for the misfortune of the Basilisk crew, damn it reminds me of my adventures with my Leman Russ Battle Tank. Indeed once the IG blobs start to panic their generals panic too, a common mistake of the Imperial Guard players and you have exploited it well, much credit to your firm leadership.

 

I had quite some nasty experiences with my routing Guardsmen and in my humble beginnings I was always eager, too eager perhaps, to concede the game when half of my army was in rout, but now with several year of experience I see the same mistake repeated time and again on my club boards by less experienced Guard commanders.

 

On a side note I think than an additional Tactical Squad would be a great way to use the Dreadnought points.

[Prot]

Very good comments... I agree on the eagerness to call it a game. I had a similar situation vs a Blood Angel playing friend that wanted to call the game...  I wouldn't let him!  In hindsight maybe I should have, he almost came back and won it. It became a very close game.

 

Anyway, in this game I honestly felt like conceding very early. I wouldn't let myself as I really wanted to see what I could do if I pushed myself. I'd be lying if I said I thought I could win it though. :)

 

About the points... You're probably right, it's hard to wrong with those tacticals. However, I gotta be honest with Belial turning the Terminators into troops I'm trying to find a way to wedge more of them in though.

 

Oddly enough as a big Terminator fan I am doing an extensive list comparison between my 'typical' Iron Warriors list and my Dark Angels list, with some tweaks.

 

Thanks for reading the batrep!

[Tanhausen]

First, purge the heretic! Somebody call the chaplains! He even acknowledges he use to be a DA but now has a Ruinous powers army!

 

Second, GREAT rep. I enjoyed reading it and was quite dynamic :)

 

As for your “emotional“ reading of the game...I agree 100%! After playing DW heavy lists in some 50 tournaments in the last 3 years, I have made the following learning:

 

Have faith in the Emperor.

 

I've lost count of how many games I've drawn/won because I refused to concede. Do I get a 5++ roll? Against everything you throw at me?

 

Then you're doomed...because I WILL roll it and procede to assault your last scoring unit and call it a game!

 

As for IG, you guys nailed it: you can tell an experienced general when he trembles turn 1, assumes he will pick up buckets of models per turn...but stay cool and systematically target the adequate threats turn after turn.

 

When I see lascannons targeting hammenators before anything else in the army shoots, I know the IG is scared. We go down to flashlights, not to big cannons!

 

Just 1 thing: dont drop the dread (terrible pun, I know!)

 

He provides something terminators dont: MM plus resilience to small arms.

 

Wanna take him down? Waste your mm, laser and plasma and leave my terminators alone! Its about making his target choosing harder ;)

 

Plus you can risk him quite a bit, since if you scatter off the board, you only die 1/6...

 

Anyhow, hope you redeem your chaotic sins and make DA proud ;)

[Prot]

First, purge the heretic! Somebody call the chaplains! He even acknowledges he use to be a DA but now has a Ruinous powers army!

Second, GREAT rep. I enjoyed reading it and was quite dynamic

D'oh. You got me there. It's been a very long time since I did a loyalist marine army but I don't know if it's the new codexes but there is a definite appeal for me with the new DA 'dex.

The recent fiction has been much better surrounding them too. The Dark Vengeance starter box is really impressive too. Love the poses and great sculpts on many of the DA models. I used most of them in this game (not the HQ's).

I'm glad you enjoyed the batrep! Thanks for reading it.

As for your “emotional“ reading of the game...I agree 100%! After

playing DW heavy lists in some 50 tournaments in the last 3 years, I

have made the following learning:

Have faith in the Emperor.

Wow. You mind telling me how well you've done with it? As mentioned I love the premise but felt something like 'nids could be a nightmare opponent (or any spammy/horde army). How have you done in tournaments?

Just 1 thing: dont drop the dread (terrible pun, I know!)

He provides something terminators dont: MM plus resilience to small arms.

Wanna

take him down? Waste your mm, laser and plasma and leave my terminators

alone! Its about making his target choosing harder

Plus you can risk him quite a bit, since if you scatter off the board, you only die 1/6...

Anyhow, hope you redeem your chaotic sins and make DA proud

Yea you're probably right. The Dread absorbed a ton of stuff for 2 turns before dying. I'm just really trying to fit more termies in and figure out the best blend. The vengeance speeder is not going to make my list and I'm thinking of trying a fortification for these guys.

Regardless... still a cool army. Lots of great, different choices make it feel fresh to me.

[Tanhausen]

My results vary. Usually, I do top 30% at regular tournaments and top 50% in GTs.

 

Truth be told, I'm not the most WAAC player and if you want to perform consistently, you need to be focused and keep your head cooler sometimes...

 

As for swarms: yeah, they are a pain. And we do fall to saturation. But focusing is key here. If you assault 1 side of the squad, sometimes you manage to deny all of the attacks on you...

 

Now fearless aint as good to deal with nids, but hitting their synapse is usually a good way to.

 

Last, since gaunts dont have grenades, staying in terrain is usually a good idea.

 

Get them rolling :)

[Prot]

I've been trying to make Deathwing style lists since my game. It's been pretty difficult. I have to admit I'm on the edge with this decision.

 

I'm not quite sold on the army. I compare a lot of it to my Chaos lists (as I'm very comfortable with that codex) and most people would tell you Chaos is not that competitive (not saying I agree, it's just the common perception) but I do find Chaos termies are cheaper, and so were a few other things.

 

Then I came to realize the point difference is mostly made up in 'special' abilities... split fire, not deviating on deep strike, etc. Do these things really sell me on the army? Not sure yet.

 

The premise is very cool. Belial brings a feel to the army that I really like. Some things were really disappointing though... like the Nephilim (How many people find that a -must- take item?) At first I was thinking this thing is a great -anti-flyer but I realized in my Belial list I had VERY little anti-tank and relied on the flyer almost exclusively for it. (it's a bit pricey points wise as well.)

 

Still, this is the one codex that lets me take Termies as troops which is a huge selling factor for me.

 

Thanks for the advice!

[Tanhausen]

Erm...just to clarify a point: havent yet met someone who considers himself a dark angel for the rules competitiveness. We can bring cool stuff to the board, but we're not an easy army.

 

Rw requires extreme finess, being very good with the setup/movement phase and have a really good situation assesment skill.

 

DW usually is for those who want to get into the thick of the battle without really caring who's in front: we dudes in TDA...there is NOTHING I'm scared of in close quarters.

 

Our fliers are Ok...the problem is that the dragon, the vendetta and the scyte are simply underscosted/over armoured.

 

Lastly, you can do troop terminators at least with the wolf codex and Id say also with the marines. And paladins/terminators with GK...

 

But....if you're truly a TDA guy, you know who's the First Legion.

[Prot]

The Dark Angel codex is definitely cool, but I wouldn't personally say its not-competitive. However you have to realize coming from the Chaos forums where everyone constantly complains, there's this perception (real or not) that -anything- is better. ;)

 

I was taken back by the flyer. Definitely thought it would be a bit more.... useful? (if that is the correct word).

 

Deathwing is what draws me to the codex. Yes, I realized that Wolves can do this too, but Logan is pretty hefty and Belial has some pretty nifty bonuses.  With basic marines, I'm not sure how you'd do that? GK really aren't my cup of tea.

 

I do like Chaos termies though. They may not be troops but they compete very well if you look at them on a point by point basis, comparing 2 v6 codexes here.

 

I still love the basic Dark Angel troop though. Lots of flexibility.

 

Thanks for the input.

[Tanhausen]

The main problem DW lists have is that their troops have to do everything: kill, be mobile, tough...

And as a buddy of mine says: the elite dies so the troop wins the game.

When we have to devote 1k+ in 2-3 units + Belial, who else is going to do the killing/dying? Since terminators are the best CC units, you want them to smash face...and that takes its toll.

IMO, Chaos terminators are a nice versatile unit. As a rule of thumb with Chaos (as I'm sure you know), if you KISS, units work wonders.

We don't have that flexibility in terms of squad configuration...DW is expensive per se (although with nice rules and all) and tacticals can get a special/heavy, but still makes them jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none.

As for the fliers...definetly: ours ar subpar when compared to the big 3. And Chaos has one of them...and he's good....REALLY good.

TBH, I don't think a pure DW can be all that competitive: you bound to get a pairing in the tournament with a swarm or with someone that runs around you...and there aint much you can do besides gritting your teeth. And remember we can't go full DS now...

That why I see more and more the LS squadrons (which provide exactly all that terminators lack: range, mobility, etc) along with RWBK (which are pretty much independent, don't need that much support, can contest objectives, etc).

IMO, going full DW is like going full Khorne or full WWP wyches: extreme build, if properly paired will crush the opponent but being so focused it has serious pitfalls.

Read you around

Edit: typos

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

LandRaiders are needed, and more Terminators. DWK with an Int-Chaplain in a Crusader can hammer most things faces in without losing heaps of them to saturation, plus, your smite attack gets those tasty re-rolls to hit. If you fight Chaos, MoR is always a lovely tool. 

 

For more anti-armour...drop the flier and go for cheapo Devs or a Las Pred. Or, more melta on the Bikes units + Typhoons. Running a couple of Typhoons for under 200 points is amazingly effective.

 

I would run:

 

Belial

Int-Chap

LandRaider Crusader

x7 DW with Flamer and a load of SBs, and X3 TH/SS

x5 DWK

 

as your core, and then add more onto this in the way of RW Bikes with melta, Typhoons Preds, Dreads etc, as they take your fancy.

[Prot]

Thanks for the comments guys. (Sorry I missed these comments).

 

I appreciate the advice as I'd like to make this more competitive if possible. I mean I'm facing Necrons, IG, Orks and soon to be a Tau player which I see as main threats to the type of Dark Angels I'm trying to run.

 

Why the Int-Chap? What would his role be? The DWK don't count as troops, do they?

 

I'm probably not going to be able to run that at 1500... seems so incredibly small... but I might try it at 1850. The Typhoons sound interesting. I'm definitely disappointed with the new plasma (AV10?) skimmer, but I need something for armour as you say.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Thanks for the comments guys. (Sorry I missed these comments).

I appreciate the advice as I'd like to make this more competitive if possible. I mean I'm facing Necrons, IG, Orks and soon to be a Tau player which I see as main threats to the type of Dark Angels I'm trying to run.

Why the Int-Chap? What would his role be? The DWK don't count as troops, do they?

I'm probably not going to be able to run that at 1500... seems so incredibly small... but I might try it at 1850. The Typhoons sound interesting. I'm definitely disappointed with the new plasma (AV10?) skimmer, but I need something for armour as you say.

Int-Chap grants hatred (re-rolls) to the entire unit he joins, great for DWK if your smacking with Smite power thingy and you don't want to miss much

Other than that, hes pretty badass all told (A/W: 3) and benefits from the T5 as long as he is in base contact with 2+ of them.

EDIT: Just realised I forgot to mention the second troop choice :P yea, you need one of those, too, but I consider this the most solid core for a Deathwing army.

[elphilo]

Thanks for the comments guys. (Sorry I missed these comments).

I appreciate the advice as I'd like to make this more competitive if possible. I mean I'm facing Necrons, IG, Orks and soon to be a Tau player which I see as main threats to the type of Dark Angels I'm trying to run.

Why the Int-Chap? What would his role be? The DWK don't count as troops, do they?

I'm probably not going to be able to run that at 1500... seems so incredibly small... but I might try it at 1850. The Typhoons sound interesting. I'm definitely disappointed with the new plasma (AV10?) skimmer, but I need something for armour as you say.

Int-Chap grants hatred (re-rolls) to the entire unit he joins, great for DWK if your smacking with Smite power thingy and you don't want to miss much

Other than that, hes pretty badass all told (A/W: 3) and benefits from the T5 as long as he is in base contact with 2+ of them.

EDIT: Just realised I forgot to mention the second troop choice yea, you need one of those, too, but I consider this the most solid core for a Deathwing army.

You know what Interrogator-Chaplain I have fallen in love with? One in Terminator Armor with Mace of Redemption and Crozius Arcanum. You sacrifice a shooting attack to get that off hand weapon bonus, but that really doesn't matter since you're traveling around with the Deathwing Knights to get that T5. Its really scary and kind of awesome

[Prot]

Ok, I am going back in with these guys. I can't believe it because although I won my last shot with them, I almost felt like it was by the skin of my teeth.

 

I am still trying to make the changes work.... some units are out like that new Speeder (ugh).  I will be trying this at 1850 and I'll let you know how it goes. I don't have the room for the Chaplain termie  but he does sound very good.  I have to proxy a few things here because I didn't want to totally crack my wallet open on this experiment, so I don't want to proxy too much stuff and make it difficult on my opponent.

 

Thanks for the advice... I'm still juggling about 400pts around trying to figure out a balance between bikes/speeders (and which type) to support the Termie drop.

[cypherkk]

I had a good deathwing game 2 days  ago.  Brought  4 squads of scouts  2 sniper with Flak, 2 bolter squads.  2 terminator troops and a command squad.  Worked pretty well, It allowed Belial to come in on thefar side of the board to get some vehicles from behind and the scouts allowed to command squad to land without scatter as well and support them. 

 

The  terminator chaplain is awesome so far, 1 game but even belial and a regular squad worked well defeating blood angels. The  really important part was the scouts, grabbing objectives so I didn't worry about having the scoring terminators anchored in one place and could send them across the board.

[Prot]

Ok, you convinced me. I'll try to get the Termie Chaplain in but I have a few other staples I'm -really- trying to keep in the list because I friggin love termies. So for now I can't fit Scouts or a Landraider in.

I don't know why but I'm going to keep at least one minor bike squad with some plasma guns and a MMelta attack bike (really liked how these guys supported the Termies). Otherwise my troops are probably going to be restricted to a squad of Tacticals and Termies.

Again, I'm going to try a vanilla chappy-termie and Belial in a squad of Knights..... I hope it works.

[Aegnor]

Good hunting

[Gillyfish]

Yes, good luck. I'm looking at expanding my 'wings' at the moment, so I'm very interested to hear how you fare!