Astartes with Tau as brothers

[XKhalilX]

SO i was thinking of a new DIY chapter (I havent given up on my Angels of Expurgation. I like to multitask).

 

SO I am a big fan of Falling Skies tv show. And then i read about the new ally stuff with Tau in 6th edition on web Forums (mind you i do not play 40k, im in it only for reading, fluff and painting).

 

so i was thinking of a renegade chapter, who hates chaos, but hates what the imperium has become. not sure how they still view the emperor, thats up in the air.

 

i was thinking about them aligning with the Tau. Maybe not an entire chapter per say, but 2-3 companies perhaps. Maybe the chapter gets nearly eradicated by a nid hive fleet, and there down to about 300 astartes, and the Tau come in to fight alongside them, seeing the nids as a mutual threat. or perhaps they fight together from the beginning of the hive fleet attack.

 

anyways, my idea is the remaining astartes seek refuge in tau space, align and give allegiance to the Greater Good and fight alongside the Tau and their armies, especial IG that have become part of the Tau.

 

so is this idea plausible?

 

and also, modeling purpose wise, how is size comparison between tau fire warriors and astartes? Id like to model up tau fire warrior weaponry and armor plating on astartes and use some astartes bolters and devastator bits and termie stuff on the tau along with possible shoulder pads. just wanted to find out if the items look like theyd fit.

[Kurgan the Lurker]

Given enough of a push we know Marines can fall to all kinds of influences. No reason some Water Caste fish-head couldn't convince them to join the Greater Good.

[Conn Eremon]

Aye, Kurgan has the right of it. I can see some people rage at the idea of it, but unless you're seeking their approval it shouldn't matter.

 

There was an article out there, I think in White Dwarf, where employees were showing off some themed armies. One had a Space Marine army heavily modified with Tau aesthetics. Looked amazing. Couple that with a Tau ally force with the same Sept colors . . . That would actually look awesome. Really awesome.

 

As for the modelling of tech exchanges, I'd ask your playing group. Some people have differing ideas of the WYSIWYG.

[exetus]

My only question is this:  how do the Tau view them?  Pretty sure the Marines wouldn't take kindly to being viewed as second-rate though superior Gue'la.

[XKhalilX]

thanks for the initial input.

 

yeah im thinking the best thing would be a DIY sept of the third expansion. I have to see how I can incorporate the super human astartes in the view of the Greater Good, and how the astartes can perceive the Tau as part of the grand scheme of things. I wanted them to still be loyal to the Emperor, but loathe the Imperium. So im thinking i have to have the sept view the Emperor as something within the Greater Good philosophy.

 

like i said, i dont play, i only like to paint and read fluff and books. But i was thinking of:

 

1. marines with tau armor torsos and heads, with pulse rifles and photon grenades

2. tau with bolters, heavy bolters, storm bolters, plasma pistols, chain swords. and i know marine torsos fit their legs as well, so im sure the helmets would as well.

3. IG with a mix of both.

 

im thinking its a newly created sept in third expansion, and they took to favoring melee combat which is something most tau shy from. the traditional tau would find them not renegades per say, but just odd while some would see their intake of humans and astartes and melee combat as progression and evolution in enacting the Greater Good.

[Disruptor_fe404]

There was an article out there, I think in White Dwarf, where employees were showing off some themed armies. One had a Space Marine army heavily modified with Tau aesthetics. Looked amazing. Couple that with a Tau ally force with the same Sept colors . . . That would actually look awesome. Really awesome.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/Disruptor_fe404/TauMarines-32138.jpg

 

I agree. I believe this is from the White Dwarf you're talking about (it was back in the Chapter Trait days).

 

 

EDIT: I have also declared fairly recently that if I were new to the hobby today and were familiar with everything I'm familiar with but had no army, I'd be starting a Tau-Astartes-Guard force in hi-tech gear and 'modern' sensibilities.

 

But since I'm not, the best I can offer is the above picture, and another opinion that yes, it can happen, and someone at GW themselves thought so too.

[XKhalilX]

yeah ive seen the mini. i dislike the paint scheme highly. just doesnt look good to me.

 

im doing basic swaps, tau wearing marine torsos, helmets and backpacks, using some astartes weaponry. nothing heavy except maybe a lascannon or heavy bolter. and marines using tau armor torso, shoulder and pulse rifles and carbine rifles.

 

im thinking of doing about 10-15 minis like this. nothing too major. the fluff will be the most of my time.

 

 

so obviously i have to figure out:

 

1. how they will view one another.

 

2. can the astartes till believe in the emperor through the greater good philosophy?

 

3. can the tau view the astartes as not just allies but as brothers through the greater good?

 

4. can the tau view the emperor how the astartes view him or at least understand where there coming from through the greater good?

 

5. how many marines could it be? 200-300? half a chapter? dare i say even an entire chapter?

 

6. second or third sept expansion?

 

7. do the astartes get their own homeworld WITHIN the tau empire? or are they fleet based and recruit on the imperiums eastern fringes? or would they recruit from the IG gue'vesa colonies?

[Conn Eremon]

Yeah, the paint scheme leaves a lot to be desired but its very good as an example of Tau bits on a Marine. Personally, I say they should be painted no differently than the rest of the Tau force.

 

Basic swap might work. I can't really see it but I'm sure a decent modeler could surprise me.

 

1. Astartes have an arrogant streak. They're prideful. Tau don't see things that way. Everyone has their place and regardless of caste or position is equally important to their Greater Good. They would not really look down on the Marines, but I think the Marines would resent having their sense of elitism questioned. Not to mention their independence.

 

2. Sure. The Emperor is no longer in charge as he once was and maybe the Chapter feels that humans under the Greater Good would come as close as they could to their unclaimed potential.

 

3. Oh yeah. Easy. Its the other species who tend to find difficulties assimilating. The Tau assimilate to the newcomers just fine, as long as they accept their authority.

 

4. Tolerate their belief in Him, sure. Accept him in their own belief systems? Not a chance.

 

5. The smaller, the easier to explain. But I wouldn't say there's a limit.

 

6. Like point five, but replace smaller with later.

 

7. I'd say they should align with a Sept. They can recruit from the small human populations. They'd probably be on a slow decline, though. Too few recruits to recover losses entirely. They wouldn't have their own world or their own fleet. They'd be part of the Greater Good. They'd have no need of such things as far as the Tau are concerned.

[Grotsmasha]

There is only one thing I find issue with in your idea, and even then it's a personal preference thing, and that is that I can't ever see Tau using Imperial weaponry by choice. Yes I know it happened in the game Fire Warrior, but that was necessity. Kroot I see willingly using any and everything. Eitherway, there's a pretty cool (and relevant) modelling thread here on the B&C, I'll try find and link it.

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

Found it:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/213771-marines-deep-in-tau-territory-a-modelling-log/

[Mogsam]

I think that paint scheme/conversion is great!

 

I doubt that they'd have much problem turning to tau. Perhaps an over zealous inquisitor attempted to investigate them over something petty, perhaps a high ranking priest tried to persecute them over their lack of belief in the Emperor as a good, perhaps their home world was abandoned by the Imperium in the face of a tyranid threat and they resent their former allies.

 

Lots of potential reasons for them to turn. The tau are an attractive race compared to the imperium. Similarly it's safe to say that with the Taus greater level of technology they could quite easily improve techniques and make up of the armour. Chances are they'd have more than a chapters worth of men in they embraced the new technology of the tau.

[Ecritter]

Well, seeing as the Tau are controlled by the Ethereals, I don't see why you can't just have them take over the minds of the leaders of the chapter ... just one possibility.

[Mogsam]

Tau are psychically neutral, whilst the Tau are controlled by their ethereal class the imperium isn't sure how but it isn't psychic control or something. Tau don't recognise mind control powers or the warp.

 

The aliens usually join their empire because it makes sense to.

[Ecritter]

C:Tau, says it may well be psychic or some other way.  All we know (or is heavily hinted at) is that the Ethereals do indeed control the Tau, even to the point that the Tau culture advanced rapidly after their arrival.

[Mogsam]

Is that the new one? The old one said it wasn't which is why they can't travel far and don't struggle with chaos.

[XKhalilX]

i was thinking of having the homeworld be in the path of a tyranid advance, and asking for allies from IG or other astartes, no chapters are close in time or the Imperium basically tells them no IG, your on your own. they get devastated down to a couple hundred marines, loathing the imperium for having them face it alone. on the brink of extinction the tau show up, because after the astartes homeworld, the hive fleet would be on path to tau third sphere expansion worlds. the tau send their own, as well as gue'vesa

 

the marines while seeing the tau as foreign, are relieved to have allies regardless of who it is. together they defeat the nid threat, and the marines learn about the greater good from the astartes/fire warrior squad combinations and scout/pathfinder combinations. brothers in arms in the same foxholes as it were. they share the greater good, the astartes talk about the emperor and his virtues, and both find common ground and respect in the other's faith. learning about the greater good also from the gue'vesa also is a bridging of understanding, seeing their own species join with the Tau.

 

after the threat, the marines willingly throw there hand into the tau empire.

 

 

so for the chapter itself i say 26th Founding. they wouldnt be at full chapter strength at the time of the invasion, so they wouldnt have even reached 1000 astartes strong. also, with 26th they dont really have a deeply entrenched culture in regards to imperial belief. so they would be far more easier swayed then someone who was far older chapter.

 

perhaps i should have the CM and most of the senior leadership killed in the fight against the nids also. then you have couple hundred astartes without senior leadership, and that connection to the imperium is further deteriorated

[soddinnutter]

If they were from one of the more caring chapters, perhaps from Vulkan's line.

 

Over the long ages they see the Imperium turn from protector to tyrant. They are forced to fight alongside Marines Malevolent, Iron Hands and Grey Knights and see them butcher women and children and allies as the Imperial Authorities look on with approval. Puritan Inquisitors they aid nuke an entire hive to ensure the taint of a 'Stealer Cult is truly gone, three billion wiped from the census records and thats not including the Underhive, Sump and Warrens. The Inquisitors peers do nothing. Atrocity after atrocity and their complaints are unheeded.

 

Then comes the Damocles Gulf Crusade. They take the entire chapter with them for this one. They are part of one of the spear rips that are thrust into that patch of space. They stray too far forwards. They get cut off. No support, no help. Chapter and fleet down to about 2-3 companies 1 Barge and a small handful of craft, all badly in need of repair. Everyone else went south to fight the 'Nids.

 

Hide in the inter-stellar abyss. Raid ships in the far orbits of Tau Systems for supplies. Listen to broadcasts and interrogated captives. The Empire has billions of humans and dozens of different peoples all living in relative peace. All working towards a better goal, something benevolent and greater than themselves. A Greater Good.

 

Only astartes of any real rank left is a 2nd Company Chaplain. He sees the philosophy of the Greater Good as not incompatible with the Chapter's own brand of the Promethean Cult.

 

Makes contact with the local Aun.

 

Is given materials for the repair of their ship. Offers them a place with the other human warriors in their Great Empire.

 

Chapter continues to be insular, secretive and weird. But then so do the Kroot and at least astartes don't eat eat people as often.

 

Chapter continue to use machines of old Imperial design out of respect for their origins and the spirits of the Omnissiah. They managed to take enough tech-adepts with them to maintain their priesthood.

 

Chapter sets up discreet recruitment shrines on many worlds with large human populations.

 

By 999M41 the Chapter is up to ~500 battle brothers, despite their efforts against 'Nid incursions and such.

[XKhalilX]

sod like alot of your ideas, but i really hate the salamanders. i love their humane views but i cant stand their color scheme, iconography, etc.

 

i was gonna go with ultra genestock or successor from a chapter that doesnt know their own origins.

 

being caught off sounds like a pretty good idea

[soddinnutter]

Vulkan's gene-line was only suggested because they tend to be more human than the spawn of the other primarchs.

[CantonWC]

Hello

 

Um, I feel like I need to be careful about what I write because I don't wish to fall into old bad habits from before my hiatus (for school and such). Since I've been involved with the lore of 40k I've gone back and forth from being a fairly hardline traditionalist in terms of a narrow interpretation of what you can and can't do with the lore, to about now, when I'm starting to realize that I'm starting to bend the rules a little bit in terms of what I want to do with my own DIY Chapter. There's really only a few very hard and fast rules that would be inadvisable to touch, and for the murkier areas you have to come up with a good "why" and "how" to explain how whatever you want could come about.

 

So for me, I have not really caught up on the most updated lore for the Tau Empire, but there are some sticking points. The basic premise behind the Tau Empire is that they're going to expand/take over the galaxy (as absurd/impractical as that may be), that all humans and aliens will join up with the Tau Empire, everyone will live under the philosophy of the Greater Good, the Tau will be the first among equals, and the Greater Good and "superior" Tau culture will subsume everything else. So then, how would a Space Marine Chapter feel about this?

 

The other thing, is that no matter how you slice it, and no matter the intentions of the Chapter in question, to the powers that be, a Chapter defecting to the Tau will be seen as turning its back on the Imperium and the Emperor of Mankind. Given the normal reaction to human "Gue'vesa," you can bet that every Inquisitor and Chapter for light years around will be gunning for a defecting Chapter.

 

So uh, sorry to be something of a "downer," but I wanted to make sure that was also part of the discussion.

[exetus]

I mentioned that back at the beginning, Canton, lol.

[Octavulg]

Their colour scheme and iconography don't exactly have to come with them to a new chapter, Khalil.

[CantonWC]

 

I mentioned that back at the beginning, Canton, lol.

 

 

I was just rephrasing it :)

[soddinnutter]

The Inquisition and all of the other chapters are always gunning for all of the renegade chapters all of the time. And yet there are still runaway astartes hanging around the galaxy.

 

They do this by having the blessings of heathen gods, being in hard to get to places and/or keeping their activities too small for anyone to give much of a crap about.

 

This chapter is now out on the Far Eastern Fringe with a small (Relative term, 100+ worlds) Empire of technologically advanced allies. If they ended up on the eastern border of the Empire they would probably never have direct contact with the Imperium ever again for the rest of time. The Imperium would just assume they reached terminal attrition and died out during the aborted Damocles Gulf Crusade.

[XKhalilX]

i wasnt planning an entire 1000 men strong chapter. more like remnants of a chapter that got pummeled by nids. a 26th founder who doesnt have long historical ties to the Imperium, and having their HQ wiped out.

 

as sod mentioned, the eastern fringe is basically a communication void. i think several hundreds renegade astartes could pull it off.

 

it would be a third expansion sept that is very open to outsiders. rather then calling them gue'vesa "human helpers" theyd be called gue'vr "human equals" for those who don't know Tau. So having astartes would just be another force added to the empire. with kroot, vespid, humans, other xenos, why not some astartes?

[Octavulg]

Except all of those are basically second-class citizens in the Empire, and Space Marines don't like playing second fiddle. Especially to xenos.

 

I'm a bit worried you're under the impression the Tau are nice and good. They're not. They're just relatively tolerant and relatively open-minded. The two aren't the same thing.