Space Marine Chapters and Their Workings

[Julgolax]

When someone looks to create a chapter with depth and canonical compliance, like myself, one must look into the ways a chapter functions to know what you're getting into. To me, this is one of the big gaps to Space Marine Chapter lore because there's only vague references from writer-created novels. Such things as the matters of Chapter conception and planet choice for their home world are still quite a mystery to me.

 

I realize that many Chapters are founded on feral and death worlds because of the inherent ignorance of the lost human population and their tougher gene pool, however there have been dozens of references to other classes of worlds being used. Such as Sergeant Thaddeus of the Blood Ravens Chapter being taken from the Hive Gangs of Meridia or the Imperial Fists, selecting recruits from dozens, if not hundreds of worlds across the Imperium. What constitutes the selection of such people who are exposed to corruption and rebelliousness throughout their young lives? Some explanation of the choosing process would be great.

 

Once a Chapter is founded on a planet, what happens then? I only have ideas at this stage of what happens. I can only surmise that slaves and servitors are brought in by the million to begin constructing the chapter's facilities and fortress while their gene stock is chosen and delivered from Terra. Does the Adeptus Mechanicus play a part in the founding of a chapter? I mean in a sense that's more than just an order for 1000 suits of power armor, 100 suits of carapace armor, 100 terminator armor suits, dozens of tanks, bikes, skimmers and fliers, as well as enough star ships to constitute a Chapter Fleet that is...

 

Then we get into the training of the first few natives chosen. Who picks them? Who trains them? How does a Chapter make war when so tiny and young? How do you pick a Chapter Master, Librarians, and Chaplains at this stage? Those individuals must be picked from one in a few thousand potentials don't they? This is another concept that is entirely undeveloped as far as I know.

 

After some hundreds of years, when we can be pretty sure that a Chapter has it's footing and is doing it's part, we get into the actual administration of a Space Marine Chapter. With something as epic as the commanding and operation of a Space Marine Chapter, what sort of faculties and officials are required to keep this up? It seems like a logistical and technical nightmare. The Chapter Master is written as being both the leader of a thousand battle brothers and often the governor of the Chapter's home planet. I can't imagine that a single man, even a Space Marine can truly govern an entire planet and be responsible for multiple campaigns against aliens, traitors, and rebels. Can someone elaborate on how this works?

 

As for the creation process of more Space Marines, I was under the impression that the ability to change fully grown adults into Space Marines was lost with the Horus Heresy and that now it requires young adults, if not children to successfully process a Space Marine. Is this correct?

 

I know the chapter eventually has staff to handle menial tasks but, again, who are they and who picks them to handle something so important as the administration of a Space Marine Chapter? What kind of authority do they have under the Chapter Master? Does it work like a corporation here in the states?

 

So many questions and yet I didn't even get into the culture of the Chapter and how such a thing is developed and monitored.

 

[Gripharius]

What constitutes the selection of such people who are exposed to corruption and rebelliousness throughout their young lives? Some explanation of the choosing process would be great.

I don't think  there are many definitive answers to your questions, but there are some concepts and general understandings gleamed from the fluff and such.  Primarily, I think Chapters recruit from places where they think they can get people strong enough, inside and out, to pass the grueling physical, mental and biological/physiological testing that takes place before and during initiation.  Some Chapters choose feral worlds, seeking hearty and independent hunters and warriors.  Some Chapters choose hive worlds with tough, hardened killers forged by gang warfare.  Some have set up their homeworlds to groom its inhabitants from birth to become Astartes.  Others will just pull recruits from any nearby death world they happen upon.  Its about finding a certain kind of person, strong and able to survive and fight.  Different Chapters have different ways of finding those kinds of people.

 

 

Does the Adeptus Mechanicus play a part in the founding of a chapter?

Yes.  I quote (as I have a few times recently) from the 40k wiki which, although not canon, does give some idea of the role the ADMech plays:

 

The Adeptus Mechanicus plays an essential role in the process of a Founding, for its highest echelons are tasked with creating, testing

and developing the gene-seed samples that will provide the genetic foundation of the new Chapters. By ancient custom, the Mechanicus has the right to expect a tithe of 5% of the gene-seed of every Space Marine Chapter to assist it in the creation of new Chapters and to check that the purity of the existing Astartes Chapters' DNA has remained untainted by mutation or exposure to Chaos. Each Chapter is created from the gene-seed of an existing donor Chapter. The zygote derived from each type of gene-seed is implanted by the Magi Biologis of the Adeptus Mechanicus in a human test-slave who spends his entire life in a static experimental capsule, immobile and serving as nothing but a medium from which two Progenoid Glands will develop. When the Progenoids are fully developed, they are extracted from the original test-slave and then implanted into another two test-slaves, producing four Progenoids, and so on. It takes 55 standard years of this type of reproduction to create a healthy set of 1,000 new Astartes organs. These must be tested for purity and genetic consistency before they will be sanctioned officially by the Fabricator-General of the Adeptus Mechanicus and then by the High Lords of Terra, speaking for the Emperor of Mankind, who alone can give permission for the creation of a new Chapter.

 

Entire Forge Worlds may be turned over to the manufacture of the mighty arsenal of weaponry, ammunition, Power Armour, vehicles and starships that any such force will require. There are a myriad of other concerns as well. A suitable homeworld inhabited by humans must be identified for the new Chapter, which will likely provide not only a secure and defensible base of operations, but also a source of new recruits as well. Such worlds might have been reported by itinerant Rogue Traders and earmarked centuries before by Adeptus Mechanicus Explorators as potential Astartes homeworlds. A degree of environmental terraforming might be required and the natives of the world (if they are to become the source of the new Chapter's Aspirants) must be studied and tested by the Mechanicus' Magi Biologis and Genetors for many generations to ensure they are genetically pure and free of any strain of mutation that might later affect the Chapter itself. The construction of a Chapter's fortress-monastery may be one of the greatest undertakings of all, drawing on the genius of the Imperium's most accomplished military architects and engineers. If the Chapter is to be fleet-based, then even more work must be put into the construction of a massive Chapter Barque or an unusually large Battle Barge to serve as the Chapter's mobile fortress-monastery and all of the related capital warships and Escorts such a highly-mobile Chapter will require.

 

More info: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Chapter.

 

 

Then we get into the training of the first few natives chosen. Who picks them? Who trains them? How does a Chapter make war when so tiny and young? How do you pick a Chapter Master, Librarians, and Chaplains at this stage? Those individuals must be picked from one in a few thousand potentials don't they? This is another concept that is entirely undeveloped as far as I know.

You are correct, it has not been fully developed... largely because it hasn't really been necessary.

 

More likely than not, a lot of the founding stuff is done by administrators at some level in the bureaucracy of the Imperium. Space Marines are out fighting wars, not touring various death worlds for a good place to put a Chapter keep, or picking out patterns of heraldry. The first recruits may come from anywhere. Maybe the AdMech does go out, find a potential homeworld, and start testing the populace to make sure they are suitable for implantation, like the Wiki suggests. So maybe the AdMech chooses the first recruits to be implanted. Or maybe what is generally called the "training cadre" of Space Marines is brought in at this point to oversee trials and tests to pick the first recruits. Its not really clear.

 

As for training, the general and unofficial consensus is that a group of Space Marines from an existing Chapter aid in the training and initial development of a Chapter.  Sometimes called a "training cadre", the general thought is that this includes Space Marine officers, Chaplains, Techmarines, Librarians, etc., but the size and make-up of the training cadre isn't really known, so its up in the air.  We recently had a debate on the Liber as to whether or not the training cadre stays with the new Chapter permanently or, after some period of time, returns to its original Chapter.  I think the consensus was that no one really knows, and its not really that important either way. 

 

This is what the Wiki says about training cadres, but again it isn't official:

 

The already extant Space Marine Chapters may also have a role in this process, though to what degree can vary greatly from Founding to Founding. Many of the First Founding Chapters maintain close links with Chapters created using their own gene-seed stocks, and the Chapter Masters might have a hand in planning future Foundings using that genetic material.

 

 

With something as epic as the commanding and operation of a Space Marine Chapter, what sort of faculties and officials are required to keep this up?

Basically, the Chapter Master and his command squad do it, along with the Company Captains, etc.  Most Chapters have Chapter serfs, basically servants or even slaves, that serve the Chapter and help them out with a lot of stuff.  But generally the Space Marines take care of it themselves.  This is possible because (1) its a fantasy world and we really don't need to bother with the logistical details of who makes sure the paper towel dispenser in the Little Space Marine's Bathroom on the 5th floor of the Battle Barge is freshly stocked with paper towels, and (2) they are Space Marines who don't really need much sleep, have advanced human intellect and no hobbies other than killing and death.  They don't sit around and watch TV in their off-time, and they have eidetic memory, so they can do the fotress-monestary's monthly inventory processing and clean their bolters at the same time. Plus, they don't need much other than ammunition, explosives, and stuff to carry, launch and haul the ammunition and explosives.

 

 

The Chapter Master is written as being both the leader of a thousand battle brothers and often the governor of the Chapter's home planet. I can't imagine that a single man, even a Space Marine can truly govern an entire planet and be responsible for multiple campaigns against aliens, traitors, and rebels. Can someone elaborate on how this works?

Again, the Chapter Master and his command squad can do it (1) because its fiction and fantasy, and (2) because they are Space Marines.  On their homeworlds, they may have humans that assist them or act for them when they are away.  Or, maybe they just do what humans do when we leave our dogs behind at home -- tell them to be good cause if they crap on the carpet, they're gonna get their noses rubbed in it when we get home.  Except with Space Marines is violent, brutal death rather than nose-in-poop.

 

 

As for the creation process of more Space Marines, I was under the impression that the ability to change fully grown adults into Space Marines was lost with the Horus Heresy and that now it requires young adults, if not children to successfully process a Space Marine. Is this correct?

Recruits are generally younger, yes.  There are exceptions to the rule, but usually young.

 

 

I know the chapter eventually has staff to handle menial tasks but, again, who are they and who picks them to handle something so important as the administration of a Space Marine Chapter? What kind of authority do they have under the Chapter Master?

Usually, they are serfs from the Chapter's homeworld who volunteer or get "drafted" into duty by the Chapter.  Who exactly picks them?  I don't know.  Maybe a sergeant goes out and rounds up some humans who look vaguely intelligence and brings them to his Captain, who asks them a few questions to make sure they aren't brain-dead and then they get hired/enslaved.  Doesn't make that big of difference, really.

 

As for their authority, they probably have very little.  Space Marines don't generally live sharing their authority with anyone.  I think most humans on a Chapter's homeworld know they need to be good and do their duty, and they try as hard as they can to make sure they never draw the attention, much less the ire, of  the Space Marines. 

 

I mean, think about it.  Space Marines wreck cities for fun and can rip a world apart over a long weekend.  They aren't going to have to worry too much about their own homeworld.  Their little human pets are going to be good boys and girls, yes they are.

 

 

Does it work like a corporation here in the states?

On this, and this alone, I can give you a positively, absolutely, utterly definitive answer: no, it does NOT work anything at all like a corporation. 

[Conn Eremon]

Many Chapters are founded on Feral and Death Worlds because the people who live on them tend to be of prime recruiting stock. But it is far from a rule. Though probably most Chapters receive recruits from such worlds, a very large amount do not and suffer no less for it. Take the Ultramarines as an example. Their worlds probably lie in the opposite spectrum of Feral or Death Worlds, though perhaps not so far as to qualify as a Pleasure World. And yet, they're among the most lauded, the most successful. The Blood Ravens, as you noted, recruit from multiple worlds and only one of which constituted a Feral/Death World. 

 

According to the . . . . Insignium? I can't remember the source, sorry. When the High Lords have a heavy hand in the Founding (I say this because Rites of Battle seemed to suggest many ways of a Chapter being founded that the High Lords aren't as active in as the old fluff in what I think is the Insignium), a world is chosen and greatly tested for any signs of corruption or genetic deviancy. Then, an army of builders comes to fashion the Fortress-Monastery. This is all happening as the Chapter's gene-seed is being incubated in serfs prior to proper implantation. However, there are many times where it's shown that a Chapter comes into a world well after their founding. Most famously are the Flesh Tearers and the Crimson Fists. One came across a world and declared it their own, the other had it granted to them by the powers that be. 

 

The Adeptus Mechanicus plays the biggest part of all. The High Lords may issue the order, but it's the Mechanicum that does all the legwork. They're the ones in charge of the stores of gene-seed used to found new Chapters, they're the ones providing and building every single mechanical construct the Chapter will require as well as the necessary labor.

 

When a Chapter is founded, a suitable existing Chapter is chosen to provide a training cadre. I'm not sure if it's ever stated, but I think that the gist of it is that it's a Chapter of the same gene-seed source and one well-liked or of particular political clout by the Imperium as a whole, which usually translates as Codex adherent or a First, Second Founding. So a new Chapter formed from the gene-seed of the Rogal Dorn, for instance, the Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Hammers of Dorn or other Chapters may provide the Training Cadre. However, the Black Templars likely wouldn't.

But this training cadre is the initial officer core. They're the first Chapter Master, Captains, specialists. Once the Chapter is capable of operating without them, they're given the option of returning to their former Chapter or remaining with the new one. I seem to recall there being at least one situation where they left, but I have a feeling the vast majority remain behind with the newborn Chapter.

 

Why can't a Chapter Master be Governor as well? Mortal men are capable of it, and I'm sure many of them are locked in constant wars as well! That being said, being the official Governor and acting as the Governor are two different things. Most Chapters seem to let their worlds do their own thing. Some don't even know of their presence. The Ultramarines are an example of those who actively manage their world(s). The Blood Ravens are an example of those who do not (Thaddeus' homeworld had its own Governor, remember?) If you're going for a Feral World, how much of an administration is really required, in comparison to a Hive World for instance?

 

Yes, the recruitment process works best with children. If I recall correctly, the implantation process seems to work best when done in lockstep with a youth's own bodily changes as he approaches and passes puberty. This has less to do with the loss of technology though, though I'm sure it has a hand in it. While during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy, older individuals were able to become Space Marines (though there was still a limit, as Luther and Kor Phaeron would attest) than in modern 40k, it all happened in such a short timeframe that they didn't even realize they'd been doing it wrong or less safely.

 

The staff are called Chapter Serfs. Who they are can vary greatly. One serf described in a Crimson Fists story was a failed recruit. The Death Guard, pre-Heresy, had a similar serf in a novel. Space Wolf serfs seem to be hereditary. Their children grow up to become serfs as well. In every case I have ever seen, they are all people of the Fleets and Worlds of their attendant Chapter. Bondsmen who are sworn to service. Either as slaves, as I'm sure most Chapters view them, "little brothers and sisters" as the Space Wolves viewed their Serfs and the Salamanders view all people, and perhaps even equals as the Ultramarines may view their serfs.

 

Hope this helps. Sorry I'm terrible at citing sources for my ramblings. All that I've written I have gleaned from some source or the other and not just my own musings on the manner, unless noted thus. Most of my information came from what I think is the Insignium Astartes and FFG's Rites of Battle.

[Disruptor_fe404]

As mentioned by Cormac, there are examples (which I unfortunately cannot name off the top of my head) of Chapters not actually having a homeworld upon initial conception and being fleet-based to begin with. These Chapters then go on to claim a homeworld by Right of Conquest (also not sure if that's the actual term), and sometimes these worlds will have pre-existing facilities that the Chapter then appropriates for use as a fortress-monastery.

 

One of the first Index Astartes also mentioned that the first 1,000 (-ish, though probably less, since the training cadre are likely going to end up as part of the Chapter's command) Astartes for a Chapter are made and implanted all at once, from Mechanicus-controlled vat-grown sources.

 

Other Indices Astartes also mention that a Chapter isn't always created at 1,000-strong to being with either.

[Conn Eremon]

The Crimson Fists gained their homeworld differently than Disruptor listed (not contradicting, just listing further examples). They were granted Rynn's World but seem to have no prior contact with it. It sounded more like a 'Thank you for your many thousands of years of service. For your dedication, we award you with this world. Its on your map, right there. No, there. Yes, that's the one.' They landed their fortress-monastery ship, fortified it as a planetary fortress and continued to utilize it as their base. Their recruits, however, come from a nearby feral world, an example of the homeworld and recruitment world not being one and the same.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Yup! Essentially, there may be an 'established' way, but exceptions are rife and there's plenty of leeway for something else to happen as long as it's reasonable.

 

It makes for interesting reading, what little you can find of it.

 

So actually, yes, I agree that there isn't enough about it, but it really only falls short by a slim margin.

[Lysimachus]

Agree with everything said so far, small side point to add:

 

 

One of the first Index Astartes also mentioned that the first 1,000 (-ish, though probably less, since the training cadre are likely going to end up as part of the Chapter's command) Astartes for a Chapter are made and implanted all at once, from Mechanicus-controlled vat-grown sources.

 

Other Indices Astartes also mention that a Chapter isn't always created at 1,000-strong to being with either.

 

 

I think (not read it in a while) that it says that there are 1,000 sets of gene-seed created in the Mechanicus vats, but it doesn't specifically state that they are all implanted into anyone immediately, hence the possibility of under strength Chapters at their Founding.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Agreed. But the capacity is there and (I think?) full-strength-at-inception Chapters have popped up before. It'd probably come down to whether the training cadre is confident that they can get the Chapter up to speed.

[Julgolax]

First of all, I want to thank Gripharius for his superb reply and sources. Top notch job and top marks for the information provided Gripharius!

 

Secondly, I also want to thank Cormac and Distruptor for your input as well, I actually love the idea of a Chapter being created and then choosing their own homeworld according to the guidelines of course.

 

It seems to me that Chapter serfs are not only it's second most valuable resource but are some of the most skilled people in the Imperium. I mean, thinking about what they are meant for, I admire them. I've always pictured Chapter serfs as monks, maintaining their warrior defenders, like squires to medieval knights. Like my ole buddy GEK here... http://miniarmyhugetimesink.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/ekreoss-art.jpg ... getting himself ready for war with his serf's help.

 

I'm starting to become more of a fan of the Imperial Cult and the Space Marines seem to actually be ripe for the picking on that concept. The Space Marines seem to be a mixture of Roman soldier and Medieval knight, which reflects the way the Imperium is built. Mighty cities like Rome fortified by gothic castle walls and defenses, all with a world war 2 functionality to them. It makes the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists actually seem cool, since they both resemble the Imperial Cult quite well.

 

I'm actually quite perplexed by the supposed rivalry and distrust between Space Marine Chapters and the Adeptus Mechanicus cult since it is the job of the Ad. Mech cult to not only supply and equip the Chapter but quite literally birth them from the test tubes and vegetative slaves. You'd think the Adepts of the Mechanicus would be welcome on Chapter home worlds.

[Gripharius]

Thanks Lornak, I appreciate it.

 

However, the "source" I cited is only a Wiki, so it is not necessarily an authority.  There may be things in the official GW canon that conflicts with the Wiki.

 

I think you are right in many ways about the importance of the serfs, but not every Chapter -- or even every Marine in a Chapter -- holds that same view.

 

A lot of Chapters have the "Roman soldier and Medieval knight" theme that you mention, especially the Ultramarines and their successors.  But there are a lot of different Chapters with very different influences.  The Space Wolves are the easiest example -- much less Roman soldier and much more Viking berserker.  The White Scars are another example -- they are obviously based on the Mongolian horde in many ways.

 

The culture of a Space Marine Chapter can vary widely.  The Salamanders, for example, place a high value on human life and strive to protect it as much as they can.  The Marines Malevolent, on the other hand, don't really care about collateral damage and have been known to use "excessive" force even on "innocent" humans. 

 

So there's a lot of room for being creative in creating a Chapter, and only a few rules that are really hard in fast.... but most of those rules, if you broke them, you wouldn't have "Space Marines" anyway.  If you made a "Chapter" of Space Marines that were scared of the dark... well, they wouldn't be Space Marines because Space Marines "know no fear."  If you tried to make female Space Marines, you'd just end up with really manly Sisters of Battle that have to shave their faces 3 times a day. 

 

I think the key to creating a good Chapter is not so much putting together a list of all of the "dos and don'ts" of a Chapter or the hard and fast rules, but more of immersing yourself in the 40k universe and figuring out how a new Chapter might logically develop in that universe -- how the grimdark and its myriad elements and experiences would organically grow a Chapter from a carbon copy of its parent Chapter into its own unique identity and culture.

 

Probably more than you wore looking for, but I have a tendency to drone on and on and on.  And on and on and on.

[exetus]

Let's not forget that, in the administration of the Chapter that it's roughly 1,000 combat-effective Astartes and that the actual number may be above that and in support roles based upon what they do.  For instance, if you look at the Chapter orders of battle in many codices, you have a Chapter Master, followed by his ten captains, each in charge of a company which leads up to about 1,000 space marines. Then you have additional officers such as the Chief Librarian, the Master of Chaplains, the Chief Techmarine, the Master of the Fleet, the Chief Apothecary and the Chief Logisticiam.  Now, the Chapter Master is also often the planetary governor while his captains hold secondary positions such as Master of the Armory, Master of Ceremonies, Master of the Marches, Planetary Steward, etc.

 

For instance, with the Blood Angels, if they were to fight at 100% strength, there would be 1000 battle brothers, Chapter Master Dante, Astorath and 13 chaplains, Mephiston and 30 librarians, Incarael and 35 techmarines, Sepharan and 29 Sanguinary Guards, Corbulo and 21 Sanguinary Priests, Bellerophon (Master of the Fleet) and Adanicio (Chief Logisticiam).

 

So it's not like they're necessarily doing all of this by themselves.

 

 

Quote

I know the chapter eventually has staff to handle menial tasks but, again, who are they and who picks them to handle something so important as the administration of a Space Marine Chapter? What kind of authority do they have under the Chapter Master?

Usually, they are serfs from the Chapter's homeworld who volunteer or get "drafted" into duty by the Chapter.  Who exactly picks them?  I don't know.  Maybe a sergeant goes out and rounds up some humans who look vaguely intelligence and brings them to his Captain, who asks them a few questions to make sure they aren't brain-dead and then they get hired/enslaved.  Doesn't make that big of difference, really.

 

As for their authority, they probably have very little.  Space Marines don't generally live sharing their authority with anyone.  I think most humans on a Chapter's homeworld know they need to be good and do their duty, and they try as hard as they can to make sure they never draw the attention, much less the ire, of  the Space Marines. 

 

I mean, think about it.  Space Marines wreck cities for fun and can rip a world apart over a long weekend.  They aren't going to have to worry too much about their own homeworld.  Their little human pets are going to be good boys and girls, yes they are.

 

 

Most chapter serfs are taken from failed aspirants if they are suitable to the tasks expected.  When this is the case, it means that they were selected, ultimately, by the Master of Recruits and, by extension, the sergeants of his scout company.  This isn't always the case, but if they have shown honor and dedication, they often just become those servants.  Menials tasks are often left to servitors as well.

 

The administration of a chapter and the every day task list is usually left to the Chief Logisticiam and his staff of equerries and servitors... these usually number in the hundreds and would be chosen by the logisticiam for the tasks required.  What authority do they have?  Only that which is required in the completion of their tasks, although there is obviously some striation amongst them... they'll undoubtedly have leadership positions, experience and perhaps some small personal influence with their Astartes masters.  

 

Other tasks such as the chief astropath would be assigned by the Ad Astra Telepathica and the initial crews of the fleet assigned probably assigned by the Adeptus Munitorum.

[Conn Eremon]

Gripharius' advice to avoid looking at it as 'do or don't' list is spot on, I think. We don't need to know the details and its likely that they would ruin some of the allure if we looked to deeply. The fact that you have serfs is obvious. Who they are or what they represent is of minimal importance, even if you wish to point them out.

 

Immerse yourself in 40k and find your Chapter's place. A logical growth will help it feel accurate, but it needs to feel like a natural growth for it to feel right. You feel me?

 

And remember that virtually everything is contradicted elsewhere. Don't be afraid to explore options. Make what you most want. We'll be here to nitpick it if it falls short of our criteria (and everyone's is different). Just because I've never heard of a Chapter that records where each progenoid gland comes from doesn't mean I'm afraid to make a Chapter that attempts to keep close records of such in order to keep tabs on their "bloodlines." You'll hear more of that when I get around to the Imperial Dragons.

[Gripharius]

The administration of a chapter and the every day task list is usually left to the Chief Logisticiam and his staff of equerries and servitors... these usually number in the hundreds and would be chosen by the logisticiam for the tasks required.

Wow, in all my years of grimdarking, I've never heard of the Logisticiam. That's weird. Kind of like how, in all my many years of rocking the Casbah, I just stumbled onto the Black Keys and was like, "Where the hell have I been and how did I miss this awesomeness?"

 

Anymore info on the Logisticiam or his equerries?

[Disruptor_fe404]

I also think that there's a few Chapters where those serfs that aren't failed aspirants are actually members of the same family/clan/tribe who end up with 'service to the Chapter' as their hat for generations. Such serfs are also likely to be quite well-indoctrinated into the Chapter cult as well.

 

Again, I can't really cite my sources on this, but I want to say that the Ultras do something like this...

[Mogsam]

The Ultramarines run massive military academies and schools. They can cherry pick the staff for their needs from a dozen worlds. It's because they're awesome like that. Still sarcasm aside (especially since my own chapter has a poor mans version) a lot of chapters would take decent administrator choices for their needs from the population. They won't just scout out fighters, they'd need good logistics and such too.

[exetus]

 

The administration of a chapter and the every day task list is usually left to the Chief Logisticiam and his staff of equerries and servitors... these usually number in the hundreds and would be chosen by the logisticiam for the tasks required.

Wow, in all my years of grimdarking, I've never heard of the Logisticiam. That's weird. Kind of like how, in all my many years of rocking the Casbah, I just stumbled onto the Black Keys and was like, "Where the hell have I been and how did I miss this awesomeness?"

 

Anymore info on the Logisticiam or his equerries?

 

I'll be honest, the last couple of codices were the first time I'd heard of the Logisticiam as GW fleshes out the structure of an Astartes chapter more and more.  The most information I've gleaned is that the Logisticiam is a battle brother and he's, essentially, the majordomo of the Chapter.  This differs from regent or planetary warden or whatnot in that he's responsible for the smooth operation of the Chapter Monastery and the assignment of equerries, serfs and servitors.

 

I'd hazard a guess that we're talking about duties that include but aren't limited to assignment of equerries to the officers of the Chapter, food preparation, monastery maintenance, labor details, operation of the monastery's defenses, groundskeeping and transport within the home system.  Once again, this last part is all guesswork, but if it's not dealt with by the Apothecarion, Librarium or Forge, then it's probably handled by the Logisticiam and his minions.

[Octavulg]

Where is one of these mentions, exactly?

[Leonaides]

Was what I was wondering too... Some of those duties are the jobs of the captains, non-combat capable marines, experienced chapter serfs, etc, and always had been...

[Gripharius]

Not an official source, but I googled it and the Lexicanium mentions the Logisticiam as part of the HQ for the Blood Angels.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Angels

[Octavulg]

Ah. C:BA, 5e, page 9.

 

The Logisticiam is the departmental title, not the officer's title. You can tell from the way EVERY OTHER EXAMPLE ON THAT PAGE OF THE CODEX WORKS THAT WAY.

 

Brother Adanicio, the Warden of the Gates, is the head of the BA Logisticiam. I suspect he's the steward of the Fortress Monastery.

 

C:SM 5e puts the Chapter Serfs, the Honour Guard and the Chaplains in under the Chapter Master directly.

[Gripharius]

LOL, Octavulg. It was an honest mistake, grumpy.

 

It did lead me to this from the Lexicanum, which is interesting and backs up some of the other stuff exetus said:

 

Chapter serfs are the normal human bondsmen and servants of a Space Marine Chapter. The Space Marines themselves are too few in number to manage all the tasks required to maintain all the aspects of the Chapter, its fleet, fortress, and other myriad aspects. It is the serfs who perform most of these vital functions.

A Chapter's fortress-monastery is home to a large population of these hereditary servants. Although they occupy a humble position, they are loyal members of the Chapter. They are generally descended from individuals selected as potential recruits to the Chapter, but in the end, judged unfit to become actual Space Marines.

The serfs are still inducted into the Chapter cult, and do not begrudge the status they could have obtained. They are generally well treated within the Chapter, are educated and trained to a much higher standard than most other servants of the Imperium, and have access to a better range of equipment.

When Space Marines go to war, the serfs maintain the fortress and defend it from attack. It is unlikely that the Chapter Serfs would ever be deployed in battle alongside their Space Marine masters, as their human limitations would be incapable of keeping pace. They would still be trained to levels at least equivalent to that of the Imperial Guard, expected to assist in the defense of chapter assets such as fortresses and vessels. Indeed when facing down a Space Marine Battle Barge it would be a chapter serf manning the gun turrets, as a full Space Marine would be too valuable for the task.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chapter_Serf

 

I kind of like the thought of a "Chief Logisticiam" though, the Chapter's head paper-pusher, serf babysitter and unsung quartermaster. You'd really have to piss off the Chapter Master to get that job. I can just hear the threats to "promote" some Veteran Sergeant to "Chief Logisticiam" if he ever dares to do such-and-such again, lol.

 

EDIT:

 

I found some more info that's interesting from C:SM 5e...

 

A Chapter also includes a number of officers and specialists who stand aside from the company organization. These individuals are known as the headquarters staff and they may be assigned to fight with a company in battle. Included amongst them are psychic Librarians from the Chapter's Librarius, Chaplains from the Reclusiam, and Techmarines together with the Servitors.

 

There are relatively few of these senior officers as most non-combatant riles within the Chapter are performed by the Chapter's human serfs. The two largest groups are the Librarians and the Techmarines. Consequently, these two are set aside from the other headquarters staff and considered as separate organizations.

 

Although the Codex describes a number of ranks and responsibilities within the headquarters staff, only a very few of these officers actually accompany the Chapter to war. Many are non-combatants of advanced years whose roles are to find and train recruits or administrate the Chapter, other titles are borne by the Chapter's Captains.Some ranks described by the Codex include the Chapter's Ancient (or Standard Bearer), the Chapter Master's Secretarius, the Lord of the Household, the Chapter's Armourer, the Master of the Fleet, Victuallers, the Master of the Arsenal, Master of Recruits and the Master of the Watch.

And check out the list of Masters from Lexicanum:

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Master_(Space_Marine)

[Leonaides]

Like I said earlier- duties that the company captains and non-combat capable marines hold... That's old fluff, been around since 2nd ed iirc.

[XKhalilX]

all this makes me feel the "1000" astartes limit is a bit of a facade....

[Gripharius]

I was aware of the "Masters" before... the Master of the Fleet, the Master of the Arsenal, Master of Recruits, etc., and I knew that certain Chapters had different titles for these same functions.  I just didn't recall the Chapter Master's Secretarius, the Lord of the Household, the Victuallers, etc. 

 

I would guess that the Secretarius is probably like the Chapter Master's second-in-command or his Executive Officer who can act in his name.  The Lord of the Household would be the majordomo of the Chapter's Monestary-Fortress. 

 

I juts find the Chapter inner workings to be really interesting, for some reason. 

 

And I agree that the 1,000 Marine limit probably has to be a pretty flexible number, maybe even applicable only to combatant Marines.

[Mogsam]

It's always been quite ludicrous to imagine that there are only 1000 marines in a Chapter. It just wouldn't work and they'd be forever understaffed due to casualties and such. It's far more likely that there are 1000 marines active in the companies at a time and that there are constantly more being made/healed.