Space Marine Chapters and Their Workings

[Conn Eremon]

For the Aperor! For the God-Emperilla!

 

Tires for the Tire Swing!

Bananas for the Banana God!

 

Flung poo to heretics!

 

For the Greater Jungle!

 

. . . Shoot, I'm out.

 

Totally explains the erasure of the II or XI though.

[TrashMan]

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSY!!!!!!!!

[Gripharius]

Jeeze, you guys, quit derailing this thread, for goshsakes! ( )

Anyway, I will quote (as I often do) from the (clearly non-canon) wiki on the matter of geneseed, which is interesting. Note the emphasized language:

The gene-seed is actually those germ cells and viral machines that have been genetically-engineered to develop into the various organs that are implanted into a normal human adolescent male to transform him into a Space Marine. All of the gene-seed was originally crafted in the 30th Millennium by the Emperor of Mankind in his Himalayan gene-laboratories deep beneath the Himalayan Mountains for this purpose using the genomes of each of the 20 Primarchs as a template. The term is most commonly used to refer to the contents of the Astartes Progenoid Glands which must be harvested by a Space Marine Apothecary so that its genetic material can be used to create a new generation of Astartes. There are 19 types of gene-seed, each corresponding to one of the 19 specialised organs implanted into the body of a human male to create a Space Marine. As many of these implants are neural in nature, it is important to note that for many of these implantations the subject must be awake for the surgery and the mind cannot be dulled by the use of painkillers.

Many of these organs are cultured in vitro from the gene-seed, whilst others require that the gene-seed be injected into the Aspirant's body and then grow into a new organ using the implantee's own physiological processes. All Space Marine Chapters use the gene-seed organs to unleash and control the metabolic processes that transform an ordinary mortal into a Space Marine. The gene-seed itself is encoded with all the genetic information needed to reshape ordinary human cell clusters into the special organs Space Marines possess in those instances where they are not directly implanted after being cultured outside the body. The gene-seed contains genetically-engineered viral machines which rebuild the male human body according to the biological template contained within it and originally crafted by the scientific acumen of the Emperor. However, even from the beginning of the Astartes' existence, there was never a set way to activate these transformative functions of the gene-seed.

So, basically, the geneseed contains everything that you need to create the 19 Astartes organs, although some have to be cultured and devleoped outside the body first before implantation, and some can just be directly implanted and allowed to grow.

More from the wiki:

The Progenoid Glands, also known as the Gene-Seed, are the 18th of the 19 genetically-engineered gene-seed organs implanted within an adolescent Space Marine Neophyte to create a new Astartes. Every Space Marine has these organs, one implanted in the neck and another in the chest. The organs hormonally respond to the presence of the other Astartes gene-seed implants in the body by creating germ cells with DNA identical to that of those implants through a process very similar to cellular mitosis. These germ cells grow and are stored in the Progenoid organs, much like sperm cells or egg cells are stored in the testes and ovaries of normal men and women. When properly cultured by the Apothecaries of a Space Marine Chapter, these germ cells can be gestated into each of the 19 gene-seed organs needed to create a new Space Marine. Thus, for most Astartes, their Progenoid Glands represent the only form of reproduction they will ever know, though the DNA passed on will be that of their Primarch, not their own.

Mature Progenoid organs can be removed and new gene-seed implants artificially cultured from them. This is the only way new implants can be created, so a Chapter depends upon its existing Space Marines to create other Space Marines. Five standard years after implantation, the Progenoid Gland in the neck contains mature gene-seed and may be removed and its germ cells harvested, while the larger chest Progenoid is not considered ready for harvesting until 10 standard years have passed. The harvesting is normally done after an Astartes' death by an Apothecary, who carries a special attachment on the mobile medical field kit he carries on his arm known as a Narthecium.

Also, for those of us who were discussing the Space Wolves and the Blooding a few weeks ago:

During the First Founding of the 30th Millennium when the Space Marine Legions were first created, the process was still highly experimental and many different ways of controlling and managing the transformation from mortal into Astartes were tried. This led to the Space Wolves using the ritual known as Blooding, the Imperial Fists using the process known as the Hand of Faith, the White Scars conducting the Rites of the Risen Moon and the Blood Angels using the ritual of Insanguination.

[Astral Pathfinder]

The first page of this thread was actually quite inspiring.

 

Then came math stuff and power armored monkeys.

[soddinnutter]

Ape, not monkey.

Also there is heresy. There is always heresy.

[Octavulg]

Hey. You could, in theory, use the math for something relevant.

[KroSha]

snip

This is all correct according to my recollections. The wiki has taken it from proper canon sources, pre 3rd Ed.

 

WRT the 1000 marines limit, that's 1000 Battle Brothers. Ten men in a Squad, ten Squads in a Company, ten Companies in a Chapter. Anyone who operates outside those groups is a supernumerary and not included in the 1000 count. So the Chapter Master, his Honour Guard, the Captains (if each Company First Squad has a Sergeant leading it), the Librarius, the Apothecarion, the Techmarines, the Chaplaincy and training instructors, all in addition to the 1000 Battle Brothers.

 

It's also unlikely that the Scouts will be exactly 100 strong. Their lighter armour and lack of experience make them far more likely to be early casualties, never making it to full Brother. But there are always more aspirants waiting in the wings to fill the gap. However, each Scout that dies before the first Progenoid matures constitutes a wasted set of organs, as he has not contributed to their replacement.

 

Some of the other functions of the Chapter will be overseen by retired Brothers, especially induction and training. But most will be performed by ordinary humans, as it's a waste to use an Astartes if a normal human can do the job. Therefore, the Logisticiam is likely made up of normal humans, not Astartes. Similarly, the Chapter Fleet will be human; Navigators, Astropaths, officers and crew. Astartes do not make good starship Captains; even if they can and do have command on one.

 

Anything that takes a line Astartes away from the business of battlefield killing is not a good use of his skills.

 

For those of you who like the maths, remember that the actual fighting is a relatively small proportion of a Marine's time. Travel will take up most of it, the galaxy is a big place. Even once planet side, being moved from one action to the next may take longer than completing the objective.

[Ecritter]

Retired brothers .... I never considered Space Marines retiring.

[KroSha]

That goes back to "Space Marine", where the cadets were lectured by a quad-amputee Chaplain. Think "too injured for active service", but not in a Dreadnought, rather than "gardening, walking the dog & slippers".

 

Consider that a Chapter only has a few, ancient Dreadnoughts. They don't / can't make any new chassis, only patch up the ones they have. Dreadnoughts don't die very often, so what do you do with any really badly injured Astartes if there isn't one available? Their physiology means that they are probably going to not die, but aren't going to be passed as fit for combat. It'd be a waste to neglect or throw away that kind of experience, so you put them to work elsewhere, doing something useful for the Chapter.

[Ecritter]

But with mechanical augmentation, even a quad amputee can still serve.  And if it gets worse then that, there is always interment in a Dread.  For a Space Marine, I've always considered 'retired' to mean dead.

[KroSha]

You replied whilst I was expanding my post.

[Ecritter]

Well with your change in mind, I can see them placed in a training status ... until, they can receive new appendages or a Dread.  I would not consider them retired though.

[KroSha]

From Ian Watson's "Space Marine"

“The Chaplain had been so injured in combat that his best continuing contribution to his Chapter was to act as escort and religious awakener to young new recruits. His body was entirely missing below the waist, the stump of his torso being plugged into a cybercart of softly gurgling tubes, which he controlled with his one remaining flesh-and-bone hand. His other arm had been replaced by a damascened prosthetic of plasteel and servomotors. Ormolu-cased sapphire lenses had replaced both eyes.

Although augmentics can help, there is going to come a point where they are not going to be enough. Remember there's no innovation going on, only stagnation.

[Brother Tyler]

Gents, please stay on topic.

 

Remember - this isn't just about gene-seed and casualty rates. It's actually about the overall organization and operations (not tactical, but organizational) of a Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

=][=

[Ecritter]

I'm sorry, are you saying that discussing whether or not Space Marines retire is less appropriate then posting pictures of Space Marine Gorillas, which no one said anything about?

[Brother Tyler]

Don't be obtuse. I'm talking about the off topic stuff such as movies, gorillas, etc.

[soddinnutter]

What also has to be taken into account is the genetic compatibility of the recruitment population and any detrimental quirks of the gene-line.

The Fenryka maintain an above regulation strength chapter with a sparsely populated world. This would imply that the native population are more compatible on a biological level than, as an example, the citizens of Nocturne are with the Salamanders.

But there is a very real cap on their numbers as no one off of that bitter ball of ice and trolls survives implantation without problems.

And then you have such as the Raven Guard who could go on a mass recruitment spree and do more harm than good to their prospects of long term survival given how unstable their genes are.

Also if compatibility is an inheritable trait then in some of the more sparsely populated worlds you could deplete the good traits from the recruitment pool.

A good way of generating a steady supply of progenoids would be for fully transformed marines to have to undergo an extended period of training, learning and temperance. This gives time for the secondary progenoid to mature and be harvested with almost no chance of loss. Also ensures a lot of calmed down and well educated astartes warrior-scholars.

Also if mutation occurs in the gene-banks beyond the ability of the apothecarion to fix then recruitment maybe suspended until an Adeptus Biologicus Magus can be sent for and a solution found and acted upon.

Remember citizen, mutation, no matter how insignificant and trivial seeming is a betrayal of the flesh and must be dealt with properly if the soul is to be saved.

[CYGNUS]

A good way of generating a steady supply of progenoids would be for fully transformed marines to have to undergo an extended period of training, learning and temperance. This gives time for the secondary progenoid to mature and be harvested with almost no chance of loss. Also ensures a lot of calmed down and well educated astartes warrior-scholars.

 

 

I wanted to pop in and say that this thread poses some fascinating questions and raises some intriguing topics (it also has an illustration of a Gorilla Warrior in his power armour - what's not to Love?); the quote above this paragraph is a fine representative example, but I also want to say that while it's a good idea in theory, one suspects that in practice some Chapters may produce Marines that simply lack the inclination to sit back and improve themselves (I'm looking at YOU Wolves ... and Templars ... and Flesh Tearers ... and all the other ones, you know who You are!) - more to the point I suspect that many eras of the Imperium's oft-troubled History are unlikely to offer the prolonged absence of Emergencies requiring the intervention of Astartes (or at least inspiring petitions for the Chapter's assistance) required to persuade any self-respecting Superhuman to sit back and try to remember how one relaxes.

 

While the Golden Age of the Imperium (the occasional Black Crusade) might allow for a certain amount of navel-gazing, one suspects that the Dark Millennium and it's incessant assaults upon the very existence of the Imperium keep the Angels of Death hopping like frogs at a brewery; how can any Chapter spare it's Marines from Field Service for an extended period in such times?

 

 

One last thought: it occurs to me that a major reason the Astartes do not traditionally delve into Mass Production of the unique organs required to create more of their brethren rather than leave such efforts of the Mechanicum is because your common-or-Codex Space Marine is a Big Game Hunter rather than a Biologist or a Biochemist; they may have plenty of Big Guns, but I suspect that very few Chapters have the inclination, time or resources to spend required to procure the (presumably rarefied) technologies required for such processes.

 

I would also suggest that keeping almost every Chapter dependent to some degree upon the Adeptus Mechanicus for the continued perpetuation of their Genetic Lineages is a calculated choice - a way of building bonds between Imperial Institutions (of mutual advantage and of mutual obligation), of the sort that ensure that while conflicts may flare upon on a local level all across the Galaxy, on an Intergalactic level various Imperial Institutions will still struggle on against the Darkness TOGETHER rather than in Opposition (also that the Adeptus Astartes are not so self-sufficient that they do not NEED support from the Imperium).