Reserves questions

[puffin]

 

then depending on when you calculate reserves,

If this is your dilemma, then consider this:

"When deploying their armies, players can choose to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them in Reserves to arrive later.", BRB, pg.124

 

How much is "half of their units(rounding up)"? How do you know? If you don't know how many of your units is half of them, how can you know how many you can put in Reserves?

 

The only way to know how many units you are putting in Reserves is by doing the calculation before putting any in Reserves. What other way is there to do the calculation than before-hand?

 

Have we not been through this several times before and came to the conclusion that the only way to know how many units you can put in reserve is to put everything you want into reserve and then iterate back out to meet the criteria?

 

Given that things that must start in reserve and anything you elect to embark on those things do not count for your reserve number in anyway the only way to get the reserve number is iteration.  Caveat: if you have nothing that must start in reserve then it's pretty easy to calculate the number.

[dswanick]

 

 

then depending on when you calculate reserves,

If this is your dilemma, then consider this:

"When deploying their armies, players can choose to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them in Reserves to arrive later.", BRB, pg.124

 

How much is "half of their units(rounding up)"? How do you know? If you don't know how many of your units is half of them, how can you know how many you can put in Reserves?

 

The only way to know how many units you are putting in Reserves is by doing the calculation before putting any in Reserves. What other way is there to do the calculation than before-hand?

 

Have we not been through this several times before and came to the conclusion that the only way to know how many units you can put in reserve is to put everything you want into reserve and then iterate back out to meet the criteria?

 

Given that things that must start in reserve and anything you elect to embark on those things do not count for your reserve number in anyway the only way to get the reserve number is iteration.  Caveat: if you have nothing that must start in reserve then it's pretty easy to calculate the number.

We may have been through this several times - but no, reverse-iteration is not the way this is done.  The rules seem pretty clear to me:

- count the number of units you have in your list, a unit and its Dedicated Transport always counts as one unit, ICs always count as one unit, units which must start in Reserve are not counted.

- divide this number by 2, round up

- this is the number of units you may place in Reserves (heretofore referred to as "Reserve Limit")

This is all covered by the rules on pg.124.

 

So:

- Count the number of units you have in the list

"When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half (rounding up) keeping them as Reserves to arrive later.", BRB, pg.124

- units which must start in Reserves are not counted

"Units that must start the game in reserves are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so.", BRB, pg.124

- a unit and its Dedicated Transport always count as one unit

"A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes.", BRB, pg.124

- an IC counts as one unit (even if they have a retinue from an out-dated codex as that's the only way to "join a unit" prior to deployment)

"Independant Characters are also counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined another unit or not.", BRB, pg.124

Notice how all of these specify that the unit is either ignored (must Reserve), or are a single unit for purposes of this calculation.  The only one not explicit in this statement is the IC, although it seems implicit to me.

 

Now compare the above to the following:

"Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in

Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves? (p124)

A: No.", BRB FAQ

Not "towards the calculation of the 50% of units" or "for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so", but "towards the number of units that can be placed".  In other words, "are not counted as 1 of X where X is the number calculated following the rules on pg.124" (the number already calculated).

 

So in my above example list I have 23 units, of which 6 are Dedicated Transport and counted with their unit, and 1 is a Flyer which is not counted as it must start in Reserves, leaving me with 16 (or 14, see below *) units.

That some of these units will later be in Reserves embarked in a transport which must be held in Reserves and are thus not counted against the 8 (or 7 *) units I may place in Reserves is handled only after I explain how the units are organized in Reserves.  It does not count against the number calculated as my "Reserve Limit".

 

*These number hinge on my assumption that a unit (which does not have to start in Reserves) and its Dedicated Transport (which must start Reserved) are counted as a single unit which counts against the "Reserve Limit" because there is no explicit rule saying they don't.  If GW actually wants such units to not count, then they need to issue an FAQ responding to this issue specifically.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

The rules seem pretty clear to me:

- count the number of units you have in your list, a unit and its
Dedicated Transport always counts as one unit, ICs always count as one
unit, units which must start in Reserve are not counted.

 

Units whic must star tin reserves are counted towards the total reserve limit.

 

Just not to the amount of units you actually have in reserves.

[dswanick]

 

The rules seem pretty clear to me:

- count the number of units you have in your list, a unit and its

Dedicated Transport always counts as one unit, ICs always count as one

unit, units which must start in Reserve are not counted.

 

Units whic must star tin reserves are counted towards the total reserve limit.

 

Just not to the amount of units you actually have in reserves.

"Units that must start the game in reserves are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so.", BRB, pg.124

[Squirrelloid]

 

 

The rules seem pretty clear to me:

- count the number of units you have in your list, a unit and its

Dedicated Transport always counts as one unit, ICs always count as one

unit, units which must start in Reserve are not counted.

 

Units whic must star tin reserves are counted towards the total reserve limit.

 

Just not to the amount of units you actually have in reserves.

"Units that must start the game in reserves are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so.", BRB, pg.124

 

I could read that either way.  Is it purposes of calculating the reserve limit?  Or purposes of filling the reserve limit once you've calculated it?  Both of those are involved in working out how many other units may start the game in reserves.

 

GW desperately needs a technical writer.  "Reserve Limit" needs to be a technical term, to differentiate from "Units starting in reserves", which are two different concepts.

[Gentlemanloser]

Meh, if it's the former, than I go back to my previous answer of 7 units in reserves for DS's list, and not 9.

[dswanick]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rules seem pretty clear to me:

- count the number of units you have in your list, a unit and its

Dedicated Transport always counts as one unit, ICs always count as one

unit, units which must start in Reserve are not counted.

 

 

Units whic must star tin reserves are counted towards the total reserve limit.

 

Just not to the amount of units you actually have in reserves.

"Units that must start the game in reserves are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so.", BRB, pg.124

 

I could read that either way.  Is it purposes of calculating the reserve limit?  Or purposes of filling the reserve limit once you've calculated it?  Both of those are involved in working out how many other units may start the game in reserves.

 

GW desperately needs a technical writer.  "Reserve Limit" needs to be a technical term, to differentiate from "Units starting in reserves", which are two different concepts.

Reading comprehension, guys - come on. That sentence is one of several found in the paragraph about how to calculate the number of units you may keep in reserve. GW leaves it up to you to know how to count units up to the number calculated - that's not "technical writing", that's "common sense". :lol:

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah, DS the number you may keep.  But is that the number you may have in Reserves, or the number you may have in total?  As shown, these can be two different numbers.

 

It's a distinct and separate line/clause to the line preceding it about counting half your units.  It should be clearer, at least be a part of the preceding line separated by a comma.

[dswanick]

Yeah, DS the number you may keep.  But is that the number you may have in Reserves, or the number you may have in total?  As shown, these can be two different numbers.

 

It's a distinct and separate line/clause to the line preceding it about counting half your units.  It should be clearer, at least be a part of the preceding line separated by a comma.

You're trying way to hard to find a hole were none exists. ;) If you truly lack reading comprehension, might i suggest a remedial reading course through your local community college?

[Gentlemanloser]

No need, teaching my Daughter to read gives me access to enough early learning reading materials. ;)

 

As I said above, if you need to apply any sort of sense to a rule, it's badly written.  This rule, the entire paragraph, is badly written and requires clarity.

 

In your list of 17 units, is there a Reserve limit of 9 or 7?  It's 9 if you just take half the units (rounded up).  It's 7 if you first discount the three units that must start in reserves (or have a dedicated Transport that must start in reserves).

[dswanick]

No need, teaching my Daughter to read gives me access to enough early learning reading materials. ;)

 

As I said above, if you need to apply any sort of sense to a rule, it's badly written.  This rule, the entire paragraph, is badly written and requires clarity.

 

In your list of 17 units, is there a Reserve limit of 9 or 7?  It's 9 if you just take half the units (rounded up).  It's 7 if you first discount the three units that must start in reserves (or have a dedicated Transport that must start in reserves).

It's 8 or 7. The flyer must be discounted from the calculation, this is clear. What is less clear is if a unit and its dedicated transport (which counts as one unit) is counted (because of its non-"must-reserve" component) or not (because of its "must-reserve" component). But i mentioned that in two or three other posts ;).

 

As for your desire to have rules so clearly written that no sense need be applied - good luck with that. There is no such amount of clarity that can be had in human communication. All written communication requires that the writer and reader applied sense to the written statement (and as we've both shown in other threads, any statement can be intentionally mis-interpreted to create conflict) :) .