Ben Counter does the Fists: "Seventh Retribution"

[Trel]

On the one hand, I'm glad that the Imperial Fists are getting another novel. 

 

On the other hand: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Blog/an-apology-to-all-fans-of-the-imperial-fists.html

 

Full disclosure: I'm not a Ben Counter fan.  I figured the "apology" would be a pre-emptive one.

 

I know the Fists are hard to write.  Their defining characteristics make them rather flat from a literary perspective, but a Ben Counter bolter-pr0n novel seems like piling-on. 

 

The eternal optimist in me (Fists player, after all) still holds out hope it will be good.

 

Does anyone know anything about this novel beyond the brief description on the BL's site?

[Hyaenidae]

I'd say, give him a chance. Flight of the Eisenstien was pretty badass.

[Kol Saresk]

Ben Counter certainly has more of his good moments than his bad ones. So far the only novel I was really disappointed with was Phalanx and even then, the whole book had a tone like it was forced out rather than written.

 

So as long as it isn't a repeat of the Soul Drinkers finale, it should at least be decent if not good.

 

That being said, no, I don't know anything beyond BL's little blurb.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Well, it was basically bolter porn. Although he did manage to throw some plot twists in, and did make the novel fairly interesting. Ultimately it was a very refined piece of bolter porn, one with a delicate balance of plot to it.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Well, it was basically bolter porn. Although he did manage to throw some plot twists in, and did make the novel fairly interesting. Ultimately it was a very refined piece of bolter porn, one with a delicate balance of plot to it.

Seventh Redemption? Hmm, well that's a bit of a shame. But hey, I won't say no to a good piece of bolter porn to let the imagination run wild. :D

[Aqui]

GW could do worse than getting Ian Watson to do a new one ^_^ Twenty plus years old and out of date or not, but "Space Marine" still rocks on toast!

[Wade Garrett]

GW could do worse than getting Ian Watson to do a new one ^_^ Twenty plus years old and out of date or not, but "Space Marine" still rocks on toast!

Thanks but NO!

I prefer my sons of Dorn as inflexible Prussian fortification guys, Watson seems to think their defining characteristic is that Vladimir Pugh and the Company commanders regularly dress as a cowboy, a construction worker, an Indian, and a sailor and cause the Phalanx to resound with rousing choruses of YMCA!

[Kol Saresk]

"Welcome to the Phay-luh-lay-lunx!"

 

In the famous words of Disturbed, "The perversion has already begun."

[Wade Garrett]

Young Fist!

There's no need to feel down!

Young Fist!

Get yourself off the ground!

They've got everything

for young Fists to enjoy

You can hang out with all the boys!

It's fun to stay on the Phay-luh-lay-lunx!

Phay-luh-lay-lunx!

[Marshal Rohr]

Wade I tried to like that but my phone won't let me. But I like that so hard.

[karden00]

Its fun to stay in the 
For-ti-Fi-Cation! 

[Aegnor]

I'd say, give him a chance. Flight of the Eisenstien was pretty badass.

James Swallow wrote that though. Counter wrote Galaxy in Flames.

[Aegnor]

 

 

GW could do worse than getting Ian Watson to do a new one ^_^ Twenty plus years old and out of date or not, but "Space Marine" still rocks on toast!

Thanks but NO!

I prefer my sons of Dorn as inflexible Prussian fortification guys, Watson seems to think their defining characteristic is that Vladimir Pugh and the Company commanders regularly dress as a cowboy, a construction worker, an Indian, and a sailor and cause the Phalanx to resound with rousing choruses of YMCA!

Love that book and it's never given me any vibe that would fit with that. Confusing association to be honest.

[Aqui]

GW could do worse than getting Ian Watson to do a new one Twenty plus years old and out of date or not, but "Space Marine" still rocks on toast!

Thanks but NO!

I prefer my sons of Dorn as inflexible Prussian fortification guys, Watson seems to think their defining characteristic is that Vladimir Pugh and the Company commanders regularly dress as a cowboy, a construction worker, an Indian, and a sailor and cause the Phalanx to resound with rousing choruses of YMCA!

Love that book and it's never given me any vibe that would fit with that. Confusing association to be honest.

I didn't understand that either. The novel is rather like Marmite though - love it or hate it.

[AekoldHelbrass]

I think it depends on what Ben Counter will try to achieve with this novel. Storm of Iron was just mindbogglingly good, I almost started Iron Warriors back then, even painted my Defiler in their colours. But after that I had few facepalms reading his novels:

• after ADBs blog entry about Abnett's portrayal of Horus, looks like Ben really really tried to describe magnificence of Magnus and failed, on that scene where remembancers see him for the first time.
• last pages of Angel Exterminatus, attempt to connect it with Storm of Iron spoiled everything.

So I think if he will not try very hard - you will get excellent novel.

[Marshal Rohr]

You know Graham McNeill wrote the things your talking about right?

[AekoldHelbrass]

You know Graham McNeill wrote the things your talking about right?

Wow that's a facepalm! Where is the delete button?...

[Aegnor]

I liked Ben Counter's Lord of the Rings series, but thought his Game of Thrones novels started to suffer pacing problems as the series progressed. ;)

[Visitor13]

I liked Ben Counter's Lord of the Rings series, but thought his Game of Thrones novels started to suffer pacing problems as the series progressed.

Then you should stay away from his Wheel of Time series.

Who are the antagonists exactly in 7th Retribution (as in

which chaos god

), if it isn't too spoilerific to ask?

[SirAstartes]

Anyone care to give me a spoiler full post on what happens in the book?

[Vesper]

 

On the other hand: http://www.blacklibr...rial-fists.html

I find that quite wrong.

It makes a link between "chapter X wrecking face" and "chapter X being well depicted". And I find it absolutly stupid.

I know some people read stuff about their beloved chapter with a lot of hopes, but in the end, I'm under the impression that having them winning/losing plays a major role in the judgement fans have about said books.

BL shouldn't advertise about how IF will be awesome in their next book, that doesn't mean anything about the quality of the upcoming book, that's not even related to it. They sould praise the great story that will be told, the interesting characters and situations that will be in it, because that is what makes a good book, not IF winning.

That "apology" is really disturbing to me. It's like BL asked Ben Counter to make a IF book where they win, because "we don't have any of those". I know it's probably not the case, but that apology on their website sure feels wrong to me.

 

EDIT : Typos.

[A D-B]

 

 

On the other hand: http://www.blacklibr...rial-fists.html

I find that quite wrong.

It makes a link between "chapter X wrecking face" and "chapter X being well depicted". And I find it absolutly stupid.

I know some people read stuff about their beloved chapter with a lot of hopes, but in the end, I'm under the impression that having them wining/losing plays a major role in the judgement fans have about said books.

BL shouldn't advertise about how IF will be awesome in their next book, that doesn't mean anything about the quality of the upcoming book, that's not even related to it. They sould praise the great story that will be told, the interesting characters and situations that will be in it, because that what makes a good book, not IF winning.

That "apology" is really disturbing to me. It's like BL asked Ben Counter to make a IF book where they win, because "we don't have any of those". I know it's probably not the case, but that apology on their website sure feels wrong to me.

 

Agreed. It's a little... tacky.

 

But then, maybe I/you/some of us take this stuff too seriously. It's clearly tongue-in-cheek, but I instinctively hate anything that lends credence to stupid memes like "Black Library hates the Imperial Fists" (when Black Library is about 100 staff and authors, each of which have wildly divergent experiences, tastes and opinions), and the notion of awesomeness coming purely through kicking ass and being victorious. 

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

 

 

 

 

On the other hand: http://www.blacklibr...rial-fists.html

I find that quite wrong.

It makes a link between "chapter X wrecking face" and "chapter X being well depicted". And I find it absolutly stupid.

I know some people read stuff about their beloved chapter with a lot of hopes, but in the end, I'm under the impression that having them wining/losing plays a major role in the judgement fans have about said books.

BL shouldn't advertise about how IF will be awesome in their next book, that doesn't mean anything about the quality of the upcoming book, that's not even related to it. They sould praise the great story that will be told, the interesting characters and situations that will be in it, because that what makes a good book, not IF winning.

That "apology" is really disturbing to me. It's like BL asked Ben Counter to make a IF book where they win, because "we don't have any of those". I know it's probably not the case, but that apology on their website sure feels wrong to me.

 

 

 

Agreed. It's a little... tacky.

 

But then, maybe I/you/some of us take this stuff too seriously. it's clearly supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but I instinctively hate anything that lends credence to stupid memes like "Black Library hates the Imperial Fists" (when Black Library is about 100 staff and authors, each of which have wildly divergent experiences, tastes and opinions), and the notion of awesomeness coming purely through kicking ass and being victorious.

 

 

Every "meme" has a grain of truth to it. But of course, it's easier to brush it under the rug and guffaw at those silly ideas the Internet comes up with, right..?

[A D-B]

 

 

 

On the other hand: http://www.blacklibr...rial-fists.html

I find that quite wrong.

It makes a link between "chapter X wrecking face" and "chapter X being well depicted". And I find it absolutly stupid.

I know some people read stuff about their beloved chapter with a lot of hopes, but in the end, I'm under the impression that having them wining/losing plays a major role in the judgement fans have about said books.

BL shouldn't advertise about how IF will be awesome in their next book, that doesn't mean anything about the quality of the upcoming book, that's not even related to it. They sould praise the great story that will be told, the interesting characters and situations that will be in it, because that what makes a good book, not IF winning.

That "apology" is really disturbing to me. It's like BL asked Ben Counter to make a IF book where they win, because "we don't have any of those". I know it's probably not the case, but that apology on their website sure feels wrong to me.

 

 

Agreed. It's a little... tacky.

 

But then, maybe I/you/some of us take this stuff too seriously. it's clearly supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but I instinctively hate anything that lends credence to stupid memes like "Black Library hates the Imperial Fists" (when Black Library is about 100 staff and authors, each of which have wildly divergent experiences, tastes and opinions), and the notion of awesomeness coming purely through kicking ass and being victorious.

 

Every "meme" has a grain of truth to it. But of course, it's easier to brush it under the rug and guffaw at those silly ideas the Internet comes up with, right..?

 

Not sure if serious. 

 

I don't hate the Imperial Fists, I like them a great deal. I know Dan loves them. John French loves them. Chris Wraight likes them. Sarah Cawkwell likes them. Graham McNeill's never said anything that I can remember, either way. Ben Counter obviously likes them enough to write about, as did Ian Watson and Chris Robeson. In fact, out of all my dealings with other authors and editors, I can think of one - literally, one - person at Black Library who jokes about how much he hates the Imperial Fists. And he barely writes anything, and chooses something like 1% of the covers.

 

Tell me why I shouldn't work to oppose that meme. Can you honestly not see the difference between acknowledging that it exists and disliking anything that adds to it - and "guffawing" at it and "brushing it under the rug"? 

 

Did the conversation really need to take this twist? (Insert sad smiley here.)

[Vesper]

 

 

 

On the other hand: http://www.blacklibr...rial-fists.html

I find that quite wrong.

It makes a link between "chapter X wrecking face" and "chapter X being well depicted". And I find it absolutly stupid.

I know some people read stuff about their beloved chapter with a lot of hopes, but in the end, I'm under the impression that having them wining/losing plays a major role in the judgement fans have about said books.

BL shouldn't advertise about how IF will be awesome in their next book, that doesn't mean anything about the quality of the upcoming book, that's not even related to it. They sould praise the great story that will be told, the interesting characters and situations that will be in it, because that what makes a good book, not IF winning.

That "apology" is really disturbing to me. It's like BL asked Ben Counter to make a IF book where they win, because "we don't have any of those". I know it's probably not the case, but that apology on their website sure feels wrong to me.

 

 

Agreed. It's a little... tacky.

 

But then, maybe I/you/some of us take this stuff too seriously. it's clearly supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but I instinctively hate anything that lends credence to stupid memes like "Black Library hates the Imperial Fists" (when Black Library is about 100 staff and authors, each of which have wildly divergent experiences, tastes and opinions), and the notion of awesomeness coming purely through kicking ass and being victorious.

 

Every "meme" has a grain of truth to it. But of course, it's easier to brush it under the rug and guffaw at those silly ideas the Internet comes up with, right..?

To make things easier, I could simplify the matter by saying that if you judge the quality of a book according to the bombastic level of your favorite chapter, you're only looking to be masturbated by the said book and you miss the real interest of reading, you disregard the wealth of the art of writing.

That is why I don't like reading/seeing activist art, because it often loses itself in a commitment that ends up ruining it. Of course, it's not a general rule, but if it involves the awesomeness level of some imaginary chapter part of a toy soldiers game's lore... It's just ridiculous.