Ben Counter does the Fists: "Seventh Retribution"

[Conn Eremon]

What if I want the Imperial Fists to lose? That's all part of their character I love so much. They fight on, despite the overwhelming odds. When Dorn came across the body of the Emperor, he knew he had lost. And he fought on. When the Imperial Fists found the body of their Primarch, they knew they had lost. And they fought on. That's what the Imperial Fists are. In the grimdarkness of the forty-first millennium, there are no victories. There is only war. That's why the Imperial Fists are the greatest Chapter of 40k. Because they are 40k. All the other Chapters have to have their tiny little victories so they can feel special. What a load of bull. All it does is make them more pathetic because they can't cope with their reality. They're not really Space Marines, not really part of 40k. They're just wannabes. 

 

And now BL is apologizing for this? What the hell do they have against the Imperial Fists? Or are they the stupid fanboys of the lesser Chapters? They're going to take what was amazing about the Fists and ruin it just so that their special snowflakes can be more special. They couldn't handle the Fists being awesome all the time in spite of their losses so they're going to force some sort of pitiful "victory" and sully it. God, this is why everyone hates BL. THEY RUIN EVERYTHINGIHATEYOU.

 

*ahem* But in all seriousness, the fact that they feel it needs to be apologized is a bit much. But I doubt it was meant 'sincerely.' Reading it, I got the idea that whoever cooked it up was thinking "You know what'd be funny? If we point out all the times the Fists lose, because some internet folk seem to like ranting on it, and poked fun at it. 'But look, here's one where they win! Haha!' "

[Wade Garrett]

I agree with Vesper. A lot of people would consider the Night Lords to be one of the favored Chaos Legions (when was the last time the Black Legion or Death Guard got a book?) but let's examine VIII Legion's track record:

 

Lord of the Night:

Night Lords First Captain betrays his brothers for a cool hat, naps ten thousand years, is manipulated by eldar.

 

Prince of Crows:

"Dark Angels! RUN AWAY!"

 

Soul Hunter:

"Blood Angels! RUN AWAY!"

 

Blood Reaver:

"Red Corsairs! Suck up...THEN RUN AWAY!"

 

Void Stalker:

"Eldar! RUN AWAY!"

 

I see a pattern here...and feel absolutely no sympathy for the Imperial Fists.

[Balthamal]

Indeed. After all part of the beauty of the HH series is the fact it generates opinion. It provokes debate. Which is fantastic because that drives itself on. At the end of the day everyone is different and everyone will have their own yard stick of "an awesome depiction of a Chapter" and it just' so happens that some people will have the same one. I for one thought the depiction of the Officio Assasinorum in Nemesis was awesome, despite the bloodbath through the last 3rd of the book. Same applies to First Claw in Void Stalker. I thought they were at their most awesome when they were losing not winning. It's opinion in the end. Some love some hate and some don't come down on one side or the other.

 

With Phalanx being the only book I've read regarding this I will see it doesn't look promising. I read it as part of Hammer and Bolter and to me it felt written in such a way as to be released in that medium rather than a complete novel. Do I think that's the author's fault and his own bias? Not in the slightest. My own dislike of his work is more to do with the fact that it's only Galaxy in Flames and the 1st of the Grey Knights trilogy that I found any good. That and the stupidly high bar set by Dan Abnett and ADB to draw comparisons with.

[Kol Saresk]

Phalanx was just poorly written in my opinion. Here are some examples.

 

1.) The series builds up on how the Soulspear is gene-locked and how only those with Soul Drinker gene-seed can use it. Lysander uses the Soulspear in front of Sarpedon. But then later on, it is declared that the Soul Drinkers have different gene-seed than the Imperial Fists.

 

2.) The Crimson Fists 2nd Company shows up and you meet its new CO. Next chapter, the entire Company and CO are now Howling Griffons and Reinez is "representing" the Crimson Fists.

 

And there were a whole slew of spelling errors, missing words, punctuation errors and wrong words throughout the book. It was just a real disappointment for me because I truly did love the Soul Drinkers series. I still do. But I guess Phalanx was the "black sheep o that family."

 

Personally, I liked Hammer of Daemons. I liked Galaxy in Flames. I really liked most of Ben Counter's work. But Phalanx was....... Failanx.

[Marshal Rohr]

Everyone knows the Black Library authors hate the Imperial Fists because they go out of their way to make them look stupid in every novel, even though the background has constantly stated for years how great the Imperial Fists are. Index Astartes Iron Warriors even said that Perturabo had to use Imperial Fist gene seed to become a Daemon Primarch, clearly indicating that Imperial Fist gene seed is the best. Also, those two implants that don't work for the Imperial Fists? Thats because the Emperor knew that other legions would need them because they weren't as good as the Imperial Fists who don't need to hibernate and stuff. 

[Wade Garrett]

Don't forget the most notorious Iron Warrior Warsmith is part Imperial Fist (and possibly part Emperor's Child.).

 

Which would make him an...Imperial Child Warrior? Emperor's Iron Fist? But clearly it's the Dorn geneseed doing all the heavy lifting there.

[Marshal Rohr]

Exactly. 

[Conn Eremon]

Warrior Fist's Children, a Warband no author will allow to come to light because of how super superior it was. They tried making a Chaos Lord, but the Black Legion freaked out and killed it, calling it a clone of Horus. But that's Abaddon for you, always getting things the other way around.

 

And damn it, why didn't I think of Phalanx in my last post? They fail and they're full of angst, and that's what they named their fortress-monastery. Fail-Angst. Its all so clear now.

[Kol Saresk]

Don't forget the most notorious Iron Warrior Warmth is part Imperial Fist (and possibly part Emperor's Child.).

 

Which would make him an...Imperial Child Warrior? Emperor's Iron Fist? But clearly it's the Dorn geneseed doing all the heavy lifting there.

what suggests that he is part Emperor's Children?

[Conn Eremon]

Don't know how to do spoiler tags on a smartphone. So SPOILER

 

Honsou's name is on a test tube belonging to one Fabius Bile. Its in Angels Exterminatus. Seen by Lucius when Bile is fighting off two of his experiments, formerly of the Fists. Literally the last page.

[Kol Saresk]

Yes, that was the geneseed Fabius stole from Honourable Soulaka.  Page 444 describes how the capsule was so damged that all could be read was 'Hon... Sou".

 

Pages 283-285 described the theft. So that's why I was confused that it was considered III Legion gene-seed when it was IW gene-seed and IF gene-seed.

[Conn Eremon]

I think Fabius was the Emperor's Children connection. Imperial Fist gene-seed tweaked by an Emperor's Children Apothecary who would be used to create a Traitor Legionnaire who would become an Iron Warriors Warsmith. We weren't, and I know you are well aware and I'm stating the obvious, being serious. Way to kill the joke, dude.

. . . And thank you for pointing out the obvious to me. Hon . . . Sou . . . Honorable Soulakis. *headslap*

[Kol Saresk]

Sorry, sometimes it is hard to tell when someone is joking over the internet. My apologies. I just saw "Part Imperial Fist(and possibly part Emperor's Children)" so I just wondering when that happened because I didn't remember anything about Emperor's Children geneseed. Again, my apologies.

[Conn Eremon]

Considering Fabius Bile, it's highly likely that he modified the gene-seed. Scratch that, it's impossible that he didn't do something to it. It's Fabulous Bill. Experiments are his crack. A true son of the Prince of Excess (sometimes shortened to 'Princess'). ExperimentexperimentmustexperimentEXPERIMENTS! Upon the frozen lands of Biekmin's World, Bile is nigh!

 

. . . Yeah that was lame.

[Wade Garrett]

Bile:

"Lucius! Get out of my laboratory!"

 

Lucius the Eternal:

"Oooo! What does this button do?"

 

*Huge Explosion*

[Firepower]

What if I want the Imperial Fists to lose? That's all part of their character I love so much. They fight on, despite the overwhelming odds. When Dorn came across the body of the Emperor, he knew he had lost. And he fought on. When the Imperial Fists found the body of their Primarch, they knew they had lost. And they fought on. That's what the Imperial Fists are. In the grimdarkness of the forty-first millennium, there are no victories. There is only war. That's why the Imperial Fists are the greatest Chapter of 40k. Because they are 40k. All the other Chapters have to have their tiny little victories so they can feel special. What a load of bull. All it does is make them more pathetic because they can't cope with their reality. They're not really Space Marines, not really part of 40k. They're just wannabes.

And now BL is apologizing for this? What the hell do they have against the Imperial Fists? Or are they the stupid fanboys of the lesser Chapters? They're going to take what was amazing about the Fists and ruin it just so that their special snowflakes can be more special. They couldn't handle the Fists being awesome all the time in spite of their losses so they're going to force some sort of pitiful "victory" and sully it. God, this is why everyone hates BL. THEY RUIN EVERYTHINGIHATEYOU.

*ahem* But in all seriousness, the fact that they feel it needs to be apologized is a bit much. But I doubt it was meant 'sincerely.' Reading it, I got the idea that whoever cooked it up was thinking "You know what'd be funny? If we point out all the times the Fists lose, because some internet folk seem to like ranting on it, and poked fun at it. 'But look, here's one where they win! Haha!' "

I know some of this is hyperbole, so I don't know if what I'm about to pick at is or is not meant seriously.

I don't feel the Fists accept the nature of the galaxy as a losing struggle, or that they are entirely aware or perhaps simply willing to admit when a fight is lost. The stubborn streak I have come to associate with Fists is more akin to the one mentioned in the 4th edition SM codex, if memory serves: when Tyranids were eating face and Papa-Lyssie said they should hold out one more day. They won that fight, even if the cost was unnecessarily high.

That's the sort of stubbornness I associate with Fists. It's not that they think the battle is lost, and fight on out of a noble sense of duty. It's that they are reticent in admitting defeat unless it's totally, indisputably unavoidable, because of their sense of duty. The difference then is in the willingness/capability to recognize the cause as being lost.

When Dorn found the Emperor and kept fighting, I feel his fighting after that point, especially his solo crusade against remaining rebel strong points, was out of rage and venge-lust, not pragmatic, calculated decision to fight beyond the point of defeat. Guilliman was the one who kept his head in the immediate aftermath. What Dorn did in the Iron Cage is sort of the culmination of that self destructive rage let loose- rage rooted in the failure of his defenses, his failure to protect the Emperor, the collapse of the Emperor's dream and mankind's future, and of course rage against the weakness/greed/selfishness of his fallen brothers. He took so many losses at the Cage because he was blinded to sense by grief, hate, and wrath.

The Templars became that aspect of their father, while the Fists represent what Dorn was before the Heresy- taciturn, stalwart, unbending. I have no clue if the Crimson Fists are meant to represent another aspect of Dorn, too. Anywho, the latter fight beyond what most would advise because 'We are confident, we are loyal, and we have not been truly beaten yet.' The Templars fight beyond sense because 'We really, really hate you, and dying as we kill you is preferable to living in a galaxy where you still exist.' Of course neither is completely, needlessly, suicidally reluctant to quit the field, but really freaking stubborn in their own way.

But the overall point you made is correct, I think. Winning all the time, being the perfect soldiers, and unrelenting awesomeness above and beyond the call of duty doesn't make for interesting characters. Struggle, strife, flaws, conflict, and cool scars make interesting characters.

[Marshal Rohr]

Well said, Firepower.